I failed again for the 3rd time NREMT-P, please help!!

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usafmedic45

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The most dangerous phrase to ever come out of the mouth of an EMT-B (with fewer than 5-10 years of experience in a busy 911 service) or a student at any level is any phrase starting with "Based upon my experience...." and followed closely by "My instructor told me..."

Based on what the paramedic teacher told me and from his experience most of the students that barely pass the class tend to become better paramedics than those who passed with ease. I didn’t say that he said ALL.

Ever heard of a confirmation bias? Selection bias? Your instructor and yourself seem to be very fond of that. Pointing out folks who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps when they are the gross minority in the population is classic selection bias.

Bill Gates first Business was a failure after dropping out of Harvard.

Actually, that's a myth. Microsoft was the first business he and his friends founded (according to Wikipedia and a couple of other sources I checked) and I wouldn't exactly call it a failure.

So I guess those who haven’t passed the NREMT on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and
5th time are mentally handicapped right?

There's a difference between stupid and mentally handicapped. The mentally handicapped can't help it. Most people who fail the NREMT exams do so because of laziness, excessive confidence in their knowledge of a very simplistic rendition of a complex subject or some other character flaw. Stupidity is not the lack of knowledge. It is the unwillingness to put forth the effort to make oneself smarter.

There are MANY far more relevant examples, but sifting through them on my phone is no fun. USAF I'm sure has an abundance of such articles.

Yeah, but I don't think he's really in the mood to listen to it.
 

firetender

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The OP is gone....

The fact of the matter is, he won't be in the field if he gives up. No harm, no foul. However, if he really works hard, because maybe he has to, he'll get in the field yet, most of the seers and prophets here are sure he'll kill someone.

If he comes back, we'll never know because he's been branded and isn't likely to ever use that name again!

It's the surety of the naysayers that makes me :rofl:
 

Martyn

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I’m trying to help a person know that even though he has not passed his exam yet it doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t be an EMT/Paramedic. Just means that you don’t give up and try a different option on knowing the information and winning the game of the NREMT.

Game? Darn it, I thought it was a serious thing!!!

««« :p I passed first time thinking 'That was

easybutton.jpg
 
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calypso

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Hello usafmedic45,
First of all I NEVER said "Based upon my experience" I said "Based on what the paramedic teacher told me and from his experience". I also NEVER said "My instructor told me" I said "Based on what the paramedic teacher told me". THE paramedic teacher. I never said MY paramedic teacher. That teacher has 18+ years of experience also.....

You need to read my post correctly before you post. I’m not trying to be rude... just saying.

I understand that the NREMT is an easy exam. But for some it may not come across as easy that doesn’t mean that they should be encouraged to switch careers. I know SEVERAL and I mean SEVERAL nurses that didn’t pass the nursing boards till like the 3rd try. They eventually passed and they are excellent nurses. Yes I know Paramedic and nurses are different but I'm just saying.
 

STXmedic

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LMAO!! ANY idiot could forget a key to the medication needed for a call. That has nothing to do with passing or failing an exam or knowledge. That has to do with pure idiocy. And those people are not only in the Medical field. I’m curious to know if that person passed his exam on the first try.

Michael Jackson case are you kidding me. That Dr knew exactly what he was doing. He knew what he was doing was wrong. Once again THIS has nothing to do with passing an exam on the first or fifth time in regard to if a person should not be practicing any field of study based on that.. This is another example of a knowledgeable professional who was making a poor judgment. I would also be curious to know if Murray passed is Doctor of Medicine on the first try or not. I’m going to assume he did.

I’m trying to help a person know that even though he has not passed his exam yet it doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t be an EMT/Paramedic. Just means that you don’t give up and try a different option on knowing the information and winning the game of the NREMT.

What I was getting at, and what you obviously missed, is that in this field mistakes can potentially have serious consequences. Unlike in other professions where you shrug it off and try again, no harm no foul.

Oh, and when did NR become a game? I was pretty sure it was an evaluation of knowledge taught for certification into a profession (not getting into the profession debate...). Maybe one of the problems is immaturity and every young yahoo looking for an adrenaline rush thinking this the field for them.

I am all for helping people, and have gone well out of my way to do so on numerous occasions. I love having students and young providers to teach and help progress to becoming even better at what they do. However, again, this profession is not for everybody. I don't think that you should push and push somebody that obviously isn't comprehending the information. Anybody can figure out how to pass a standard test after 6 attempts. Just because they finally pass the test does not automatically make them competent EMTs or medics, or that they will become one.
 

STXmedic

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I know SEVERAL and I mean SEVERAL nurses that didn’t pass the nursing boards till like the 3rd try. They eventually passed and they are excellent nurses. Yes I know Paramedic and nurses are different but I'm just saying.
Excellent by what standards? Are they excellent because they know things you've never heard of?
 

Veneficus

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What I was getting at, and what you obviously missed, is that in this field mistakes can potentially have serious consequences. Unlike in other professions where you shrug it off and try again, no harm no foul.

Oh, and when did NR become a game? I was pretty sure it was an evaluation of knowledge taught for certification into a profession (not getting into the profession debate...). Maybe one of the problems is immaturity and every young yahoo looking for an adrenaline rush thinking this the field for them.

I am all for helping people, and have gone well out of my way to do so on numerous occasions. I love having students and young providers to teach and help progress to becoming even better at what they do. However, again, this profession is not for everybody. I don't think that you should push and push somebody that obviously isn't comprehending the information. Anybody can figure out how to pass a standard test after 6 attempts. Just because they finally pass the test does not automatically make them competent EMTs or medics, or that they will become one.


I just have to ask...

Do doctors never make mistakes that have serious consequences?

The fact is nobody is perfect and everyone makes mistakes, somehow thinking the NREMT test is the definitive authority on what makes a good provider is flawed.

All it does it demonstrate you met their minimum requirements, which are rather conservative anyway.

I probably would have trouble passing a basic test. I just don't think like that anymore.
 

usafmedic45

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I said "Based on what the paramedic teacher told me and from his experience". I also NEVER said "My instructor told me" I said "Based on what the paramedic teacher told me". THE paramedic teacher. I never said MY paramedic teacher. That teacher has 18+ years of experience also.....

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnO9Jyz82Ps[/YOUTUBE]

So you have problems with non-linear thought processes and any phrase that isn't glaringly spot-on pertinent to your comments....I'll remember to speak slower and use more monosyllabic words next time I try to explain something to you.

You need to read my post correctly before you post.

Likewise. I may tend to write rather long sentences but most people have little problem following what I am saying.

Excellent by what standards? Are they excellent because they know things you've never heard of?

They're excellent because no one fails in our modern society. They are just the last winner!

potential.jpg
 

Veneficus

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I don't think it is an issue of potential or not failing in society.

I agree that not everyone has what it takes to function in a highly demanding job.

But let’s face it, with the existence of so many paramedic mills and their graduates, the paramedic material really can’t be that hard.

I have trouble believing, after some of my observations, that anyone doesn’t possess the intellectual potential to get into EMS. (moral and ethical character may be a limiting factor.)

But in any form of healthcare, the quality of instruction matters. Not only the raw material that anyone should be able to get out of a book, but also guidance in developing the proper mindset. Looking at the curriculum and what is expected of today's providers, I think the system has failed to adapt and provide that education in a majority of cases.

Some programs are more worried about whether or not your shirt is ready for military inspection than they are about teaching medical concepts. Even more are taught by anecdotes and other forms of “war story.”

Worse still, some instructors are teaching what they were taught. Much has changed. There is the issue of simply failing to go into depth of said material, or deflecting fault of the instructors’ shortcomings by the ever popular line: “That stuff doesn’t matter in the field.”

I find it strangely hypocritical that a member of the US armed services comes to the site seeking help in breaking into a civilian career and the overwhelming response is “too bad, so sad, you’re not cut out for it.”

I wonder how many of those same nay sayers are quick to utter the phrase “thank you for your service” to a military member.

Seems a rather hollow statement.

Just my opinion, but I would think if one of the members of the US military came here asking for help, there should be an overwhelming show of support and eagerness to help, particularly from people who claim to highly value and honor such for their service and dedication.
 

STXmedic

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Vene, all of my posts, in regard to mistakes and not understanding the material, were all directed at medicine as a whole, not just EMTs.
 

usafmedic45

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I find it strangely hypocritical that a member of the US armed services comes to the site seeking help in breaking into a civilian career and the overwhelming response is “too bad, so sad, you’re not cut out for it.”

I wonder how many of those same nay sayers are quick to utter the phrase “thank you for your service” to a military member.

Seems a rather hollow statement.

Just my opinion, but I would think if one of the members of the US military came here asking for help, there should be an overwhelming show of support and eagerness to help, particularly from people who claim to highly value and honor such for their service and dedication.

I look at in the same way the military does: Either you're cut out for a job or you are not. There's no emotion, no consideration given. If you can't hack it in a technical field, you guard planes, make food, hand out basketballs at the base gym or become cannon fodder. It's not disrespectful or slighting in the least to hold them to the same standards that they voluntarily agreed to when they signed their lives away by joining the military.
 

Veneficus

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I see it as leaving somebody wounded on a battlefield.

I do not subscribe to "those who fall behind are left behind."
 

usafmedic45

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I see it as leaving somebody wounded on a battlefield.

I do not subscribe to "those who fall behind are left behind."

He didn't "fall on the field of battle". He never made it out of his training like a recruit who fails out of basic training. We're not leaving him behind either. We're just putting him on the plane or buss and sending him home with the knowledge that he's not meant to do this. Like I said, either you're cut out for the job or you're not. There's nothing else that should factor into this equation.
 

Veneficus

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As I understand he was deployed, that puts him on the field.

He now has the task of returning to the civillian world and being productive.

Like I said it is just my opinion, but I think that entitles somebody to a bit more consideration and support.

Personal value I guess.

I also put no value on a multiple choice test to determine a person's knowledge or ability.

If it were up to me, it would be an oral board in front of 3 examiners with no answers to choose from.
 
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usafmedic45

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He now has the task of returning to the civillian world and being productive.

Two separate issues.

Like I said it is just my opinion, but I think that entitles somebody to a bit more consideration and support.
I'd like to be a pathologist but don't want to put in the effort. Should I be allowed to slack off or cut corners simply because I was a member of the military? I mean, do I really need to understand primary care medicine? Shouldn't I be allowed to slack off and if I don't pass those rotations, it doesn't really matter all that much.

I realize that a large chunk of our military found themselves in of the bottom 20% of their respective high school classes (especially once you get out of the technical specialty fields) and given the economy it explains why so many of them enlisted, but simply having enlisted doesn't mean you get the bar lowered for you when it has the potential to harm others.
 

Veneficus

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Two separate issues.


I'd like to be a pathologist but don't want to put in the effort. Should I be allowed to slack off or cut corners simply because I was a member of the military? I mean, do I really need to understand primary care medicine? Shouldn't I be allowed to slack off and if I don't pass those rotations, it doesn't really matter all that much.

I realize that a large chunk of our military found themselves in of the bottom 20% of their respective high school classes (especially once you get out of the technical specialty fields) and given the economy it explains why so many of them enlisted, but simply having enlisted doesn't mean you get the bar lowered for you when it has the potential to harm others.

I am not suggesting lowering the bar, I am suggesting giving extra help to meet it.

There is a difference between not wanting to put in the effort and needing assistance properly directing your efforts.
 

usafmedic45

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If someone fails the exam three times....that's a pretty good indication they are not going to probably succeed and if they do manage to pass after additional attempts, they are likely to have to be spoonfed for the rest of their career. I see nothing wrong with holding veterans to a standard they are used to upholding.
 

Veneficus

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If someone fails the exam three times....that's a pretty good indication they are not going to probably succeed and if they do manage to pass after additional attempts, they are likely to have to be spoonfed for the rest of their career. I see nothing wrong with holding veterans to a standard they are used to upholding.

The standard is 3 attempts to pass.

Then mandatory refresher for 2 more attempts.

He has not failed the standard, he is still in play for the same standards every other paramedic student is held to.
 

74restore

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Not taking sides on this thread here.... but from an outsider looking in at the field of prehospital medicine as a student:

If I was in a car accident or some other situation and needed medical attention, I wouldn't care how many times the paramedic or EMT treating me took the exam before they passed. A slightly incompetent medic is better than no medic at all. And this is also assuming the the incompetent medic has a partner and other individuals around them.

I was taught to never give up... Sure the OP might need to take it more than once, but none of us know his situation, whether it's a learning issue or a nerves issue.

Maybe this is me being naive as an outsider, but that's just my opinion. Who knows what my opinion will be after I take the EMT class and actually do the job. Take it with a grain of salt
 

usafmedic45

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I argue that allowing even that many attempts is excessive. If you can't pass it in two or three tries, sorry about your luck. I don't believe that extra consideration should be given simply because he's a veteran. That's akin to saying that you've earned the right to have your hand held because you're a foreign medical student.

It's not quite the same as saying "Well, we should be nicer to him because he's black" or whatever, because his veteran status was a choice but I still dislike slanting the playing field to any degree.
 
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