How Far is Too Far...

Handsome Rob

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On the subject of enforced discipline and training within an IFT company. Do you all agree with or disagree with the following scenario:

EMT/Medic is hired and told that this job will be extremely fast-paced and paramiltaristic. Said employee is assigned a rank of Probie and expected to be working for the entire 10 hour shift (cleaning, studying, etc.) with minimal down time. Employees may test and promote to higher ranks with time and performance. Rank structure is strictly enforced and even includes lower ranks addressing superiors by "sir" or "ma'am".

The majority of the new employees have no idea about such strict discipline and get a little lost. Many feel intimidated by the structure and are visibly uncomfortable when superiors enter the room. However; overall performance and knowledge of the feild is improving dramatically.

What do you think? Too strict or full steam ahead?
 

JPINFV

Gadfly
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Which company is this?

If someone seriously expected me to address another EMT or paramedic by "sir" or "ma'am" simply because I'm new, I'm not sure if I could keep a straight face and keep myself from bursting with laughter. Especially at an IFT company...
 

Tommerag

What day is it?
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There is a company that actually does that? I would have to agree with JP I would have a hard time keeping a straight face.
 

usalsfyre

You have my stapler
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On the subject of enforced discipline and training within an IFT company. Do you all agree with or disagree with the following scenario:

EMT/Medic is hired and told that this job will be extremely fast-paced and paramiltaristic. Said employee is assigned a rank of Probie and expected to be working for the entire 10 hour shift (cleaning, studying, etc.) with minimal down time. Employees may test and promote to higher ranks with time and performance. Rank structure is strictly enforced and even includes lower ranks addressing superiors by "sir" or "ma'am".

The majority of the new employees have no idea about such strict discipline and get a little lost. Many feel intimidated by the structure and are visibly uncomfortable when superiors enter the room. However; overall performance and knowledge of the feild is improving dramatically.

What do you think? Too strict or full steam ahead?
The d-baggery is strong here.

This crap is stupid as hell when FDs perpetrate it, why drag EMS into this kind of behavior? It encourages hazing (not harmless pranks, honest to God lateral, organization promoted violence) and generally suppresses original thought, which is what EMS relies on.

Who really thinks this is a good idea?
 

marcus2011

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There are some fd's who practice this kind of hazing. But in the end hazing will make some of your best new prospects leave and what are you stuck with then?
 

abckidsmom

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I am a real fan of discipline, and I would like to see more time spent on task when not on calls, and not just on facebook, but the rank stuff is a load of crap.

I will respect you because you are respectable, not because you have been there 6 months more than me, and for sure not because you've passed some regurgitate and forget it test generated by some too big for it's britches IFT company.

I attended a week of continuing ed at a fire department near here when they were running a rookie school. Whenever they walked down the hallway, in their suits, with shiny shoes, every. single. one. of the 30 or so guys gave a "Good Morning, ma'am" every time they passed anyone.

This level of indoctrination does not show respect. It's uncomfortable, humiliating and bizarre.

Real respect is earned, not demanded.
 

46Young

Level 25 EMS Wizard
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I am a real fan of discipline, and I would like to see more time spent on task when not on calls, and not just on facebook, but the rank stuff is a load of crap.

I will respect you because you are respectable, not because you have been there 6 months more than me, and for sure not because you've passed some regurgitate and forget it test generated by some too big for it's britches IFT company.

I attended a week of continuing ed at a fire department near here when they were running a rookie school. Whenever they walked down the hallway, in their suits, with shiny shoes, every. single. one. of the 30 or so guys gave a "Good Morning, ma'am" every time they passed anyone.

This level of indoctrination does not show respect. It's uncomfortable, humiliating and bizarre.

Real respect is earned, not demanded.
Yeah, that recruit school stuff is a joke. When I went through, I was told to "just play the game." That's what it is, a game. A few weeks out of the academy, and we're hanging out in bars with our instructors, going to ball games, getting hammered and such. A month ago they were making us do punitive pushups for not shining our shoes well enough.

As for the OP, one IFT company I worked for one supervisor insisted on being called Captain. Not sir, not his last name, but Captain. It was his title, but still. It's a freakin private fly by night IFT operation. Get over yourself, and go project your insecurities onto someone else.
 

JPINFV

Gadfly
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As for the OP, one IFT company I worked for one supervisor insisted on being called Captain. Not sir, not his last name, but Captain.

Captain Morgan?

/no, I don't want a little Captain in me...
 

DesertMedic66

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If that's how the company wants to operate then I have no problem with that. If an employee doesn't like it then they don't have to work there. That's my view of it at least.
 

46Young

Level 25 EMS Wizard
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46Young

Level 25 EMS Wizard
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If that's how the company wants to operate then I have no problem with that. If an employee doesn't like it then they don't have to work there. That's my view of it at least.
Fire and police can get away with it due to their paramilitary roots and tradition. A company, a business on the other hand, not so much. I don't go into a hospital and call a nurse a Lieutenent, the ED tech a private, the CNA probie scum, the PA a Colonel, or the Attending MD a General. That would be silly. I'm thinking that people who volunteer with fire and EMS try and take that mentality to the IFT company where they work FT. If they can't get on somewhere as a paid FF, find themselves outside the social click at their vollie house or decide that fire is too dangerous for them but still want to hold a rank like in the fire service to build themselves up and feel superior to subordinates, you get the d-bags who want to be called LT or whatever.
 

46Young

Level 25 EMS Wizard
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I like to call guys like that Captain America or Captain Planet.

Remember the theme song? "Captain Pla-net! He's our HE-RO! Gonna take pollution down to ze-ro!"
Yesssss!
 

JPINFV

Gadfly
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Fire and police can get away with it due to their paramilitary roots and tradition.
I think the bigger thing is organization. Even with a medical MCI, EMS is still largely a small group working on one patient, and even then it should be one person in charge and then the help (nothing wrong with being the help and the person in charge shouldn't be doing anything but issuing orders, provided enough people). This isn't a house fire where the battalion chief is issuing orders to company officers who are issuing orders to individual fire fighters as there isn't anyone over the head of the medic in charge. This isn't the police where larger incidents have similar delegation issues.

If it wasn't for those delegation issues, there would be very little reason to have "captains" or "lieutenants" or the like in the other services. Even then, respect has to be earned past being able to pin something on your collar.
 

DesertMedic66

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Fire and police can get away with it due to their paramilitary roots and tradition. A company, a business on the other hand, not so much. I don't go into a hospital and call a nurse a Lieutenent, the ED tech a private, the CNA probie scum, the PA a Colonel, or the Attending MD a General. That would be silly. I'm thinking that people who volunteer with fire and EMS try and take that mentality to the IFT company where they work FT. If they can't get on somewhere as a paid FF, find themselves outside the social click at their vollie house or decide that fire is too dangerous for them but still want to hold a rank like in the fire service to build themselves up and feel superior to subordinates, you get the d-bags who want to be called LT or whatever.
I'm not saying that EMS should or shouldn't do it. It's the companies choice on that. Some people may view it as going to far. And others may not view it that way. If you don't like the way a company operates then you don't have to work for them is all I was really saying.
 

abckidsmom

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I'm not saying that EMS should or shouldn't do it. It's the companies choice on that. Some people may view it as going to far. And others may not view it that way. If you don't like the way a company operates then you don't have to work for them is all I was really saying.
Yeah, but at a certain point, it's just ridiculous, anyway. Like the people with lightbars on their POVs, it's reaching too hard for coolness that just isn't cool.
 

DesertMedic66

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Yeah, but at a certain point, it's just ridiculous, anyway. Like the people with lightbars on their POVs, it's reaching too hard for coolness that just isn't cool.
It's all a matter of life style and location. Some places it might be standard practice to put lightbars on POVs, where as other areas it is seen as just plain stupid. As to the OP I don't think it's too far. But I am a huge fan of the paramilitary aspect. And as the OP stated the company is getting better daily from it. If it is making a company get better and better then what's the harm in keeping it that way? If people don't like the paramilitary aspect then they don't have to work for the company.
 

JPINFV

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There's nothing saying that what's considered standard practice isn't just stupid. If someone has a valid need for a lightbar, then they have a valid need for a take home car provided by their agency.
 

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