Florida Firefighters To Pay $200K For Dropping Patient

[DrParasite]

as a comment on the stairchairs: the stryker ones are lighter to carry than the ferno models. also, the older style handle narrow hallways and are lighter than the treaded model.

every ambulance should have a treaded strairchair on it, as well as an older model for the more urban areas (in addition to, not as a replacement). your backs will thank you for it.

 

[EMSLaw]

I used one of those on the barriatric ambulance the other day. They are basically the greatest things ever invented.

I'm asking the ambulance fairy for one for the normal trucks.

We have them on all our rigs now. Agreed that this might be one EMS innovation that's actually worth the money. I'm so spoiled now that I wouldn't want to use anything else.

 

[Simusid]

I used one of those on the barriatric ambulance the other day. They are basically the greatest things ever invented.

I'm asking the ambulance fairy for one for the normal trucks.

We've got these exact models on both of our regular trucks. I've been told that we get a break on our insurance rates as a result beause of the lowered risk of injury to the staff. That might be a selling point to management. B)

 

[8jimi8]

How many pts have you carried?

Its not a one size fits all decision, but walking, if the pt can do it, will ALWAYS happen if I have a say in it.

I have ambulated patients TO the stretcher no more than 10 feet. Anyone sick enough to call the ambulance and NEED it, is not walking down stairs on my shift.

Think about it. You are taking someone to the hospital who is too sick to take themselves... and you make them walk a flight of steps? Don't you think they'd have walked downstairs already if they could have?

And keep on making that decision buddy, but let me ask you this: who is going to feel worse the first time you make the wrong call, You or the patient?

 

[DrParasite]

I have ambulated patients TO the stretcher no more than 10 feet. Anyone sick enough to call the ambulance and NEED it, is not walking down stairs on my shift.

and you think everyone who calls the ambulance actually needs it? many I have seen just need a ride to the hospital. they don't NEED an ambulance, they need a taxi (and usually to a doctor, not even an ER, but they have no PMD or their PMD is closed)

Think about it. You are taking someone to the hospital who is too sick to take themselves... and you make them walk a flight of steps? Don't you think they'd have walked downstairs already if they could have?

apparently you have never had a patient greet you at the curb, with an umbrella and suitcase in hand. a patient did that to my crew when a new ER nurse was doing a ride a long... her jaw dropped when she saw that.

And keep on making that decision buddy, but let me ask you this: who is going to feel worse the first time you make the wrong call, You or the patient?

I'm pretty sure AJ sleeps pretty well actually. He probably has a girl or two with him many nights, and I don't think he agonizes over his decisions.

and if you are asking me this, after you have carried down the 5th 300lb patient with an ear ache in a 12 hour shift, and you hurt your back, or you carry down the patient with a wrist injury and she insist of grabbing the banister throwing you off balanace and you all go tumbling down the stairs, or the 6 month old who has had a fever for 2 days and mom didn't want to call a cab, then you will know why you shouldn't carry everyone.

and sorry BLSboy for answering in your place, but I have a hunch I'm pretty close to what you would be saying.

 

[8jimi8]

Dr Parasite,

read my statement more closely.

You are talking about the population of people who do not NEED the ambulance.

I've had my share of refusals, or people who are abusing the 911 system. The hospital i work at was the one posted about, that had 5 patients costing so many many millions for "ER visits."

And yes, i've pulled my share of weight on the 400lb patients, but tell me this, are you trying to do that with you and your partner, 5 times per night? or are you appropriately calling for additional resources when you have someone too large for two people to carry.

 

[usafmedic45]

That is a lot of injuries for a 3 foot fall.

Note, this is just an observation, not trying to make a smart arse remark.

Not really, especially if they dropped him down the stairs. The initial fall may have been three feet but if he went further down the stairs, that would produce the injuries we see in this setting. Even if it was just a simple fall, if he landed wrong, you can easily produce spinal fractures (I'm guessing it was most likely his sacrum in that scenario).

That's not even keeping mind that the guy may have been osteoporotic, etc. It's not uncommon at all in inactive 50 year olds.

 

[LucidResq]

or the 6 month old who has had a fever for 2 days and mom didn't want to call a cab, then you will know why you shouldn't carry everyone.

Is childhood obesity THAT bad in New Jersey?

 

[DrParasite]

You are talking about the population of people who do not NEED the ambulance.

which is many many people who call 911, not the occasional call that you are describing. and if you will note, BLSBoy's statement included the line "if the patient can do it." maybe you need to reread that part?

And yes, i've pulled my share of weight on the 400lb patients, but tell me this, are you trying to do that with you and your partner, 5 times per night? or are you appropriately calling for additional resources when you have someone too large for two people to carry.

because if there isn't anything wrong with their legs, they can walk. no need to carry 400 lb pts down the stairs with non-life threatening complaints, they can walk

No one says EVERYONE WALKS. What is being said is that if their condition will allow, they walk. if their condition won't get worse, they walk. if they are sick, they get carried. but certain people (both on here on in EMS in general) have this idiot notion that if you call 911, you will ALWAYS BE CARRIED, from wherever they find you to the waiting ambulance. You got a broken finger? sit in the chair. fever for 3 days? sit in the chair. your toe hurts? lie in the reeves, we are carrying you down three fights of stairs. you are 14 years old, crazy and want to go speak to someone? have a seat in the chair, we will carry you to the ambulance. it shouldn't happen, but people have this convoluted notion about what they expect.

ambulate before you carry. but if they are sick, and need to be carried, make sure you have a device with you to carry them out to the truck.

 

[medic417]

http://www.watercrest-ind.com/six_pak.php

"the Six-Pak can provide a smooth and steady transition in confined areas. The speed in which a patient can be moved in restricted areas is minimal. The Six-Pak can provide a smooth transition while ascending or descending stairs. The Six-Pak was designed to never lose contact with the stair or stair riser thus eliminating patient jostling."

 

[BLSBoy]

Based upon the pts clinical condition, and other pertinant findings is what I use to determine if they will walk or ride.

Dan, you answered dead on. I already have back issues (at 23!!), and I do not intend on carrying anymore then I hafta.

And its been a little slow since I made it down to Tampa....:glare::angry:

 

[Aidey]

Not really, especially if they dropped him down the stairs. The initial fall may have been three feet but if he went further down the stairs, that would produce the injuries we see in this setting. Even if it was just a simple fall, if he landed wrong, you can easily produce spinal fractures (I'm guessing it was most likely his sacrum in that scenario).

That's not even keeping mind that the guy may have been osteoporotic, etc. It's not uncommon at all in inactive 50 year olds.

It did say in the article that it was onto the floor, not the stairs. I could understand spinal fractures if he fell straight down, landing on his butt (compression fractures). My confusion lies in the number of injuries; the pt is claiming the fall caused spinal fractures, a broken hip and broke his shoulders (yes, plural).

 

[usafmedic45]

I wonder if the shoulder injuries were actually dislocations from someone grabbing him. The "spinal fracture" and hip fracture make sense in a fall. Of course then again, we are relying on a newspaper article and you know how accurate reporters are with this sort of thing.

 

[Aidey]

That would make more sense than them being from the fall. In this case it's especially hard to judge what is accurate and what isn't since there are a grand total of 2 sources of information, 3 years apart, that completely contradict each other as to what the medical problem was.

 

[zzyzx]

All that trauma due to a fall from a chair? Ha ha! I love the dark glasses too.