FireFighter Arrested by CHP. Thoughts?

[DesertMedic66]

Interesting thing is why does it happen so often in CA? I worked in Indiana in EMS for 10 years, I never had a problem with PD getting upset with EMS/Fire closing lanes, they closed roads for us. Same here in Utah, and Nevada. Not sure about other parts of the country: but I hear about a lot of problems in CA with the PD getting upset about it.

Do the police just not work well with others there?

We have a lot of hot heads here in CA. It’s not solely PD’s issue and it’s not solely FD’s issue but rather a combination. Put a cop who is trained and taught that he is always right and never to doubt himself with a firefighter/captain who is also taught that same thing and they will bump heads.

 

[chriscemt]

We have a lot of hot heads here in CA.

A lot of everything in CA. It'd be the 8th biggest country in Europe by population. Compared to Nevada, Utah, and Indiana (just mentioned in the recent post), it's triple the population of all three combined.

 

[Akulahawk]

We have a lot of hot heads here in CA. It’s not solely PD’s issue and it’s not solely FD’s issue but rather a combination. Put a cop who is trained and taught that he is always right and never to doubt himself with a firefighter/captain who is also taught that same thing and they will bump heads.

One of the other issues with LE is that they know they're not experts in legal matters... so they have been known to fall back upon the idea of "take 'em to jail and let the DA sort it out." This is one reason the phrase "you may beat the ticket but you won't beat the ride" exists. They generally know what's legal and what's not legal, so if you do get arrested, it's quite likely there's something "close enough" to hold you until the DA can review the case and that can take up to 72 hours from the time of arrest. If they can find that something it's easier to then "unarrest" you at that point and then good luck suing them at that point. In the case I pointed to above, they couldn't find something to hold the guy on so the arrest wasn't proper nor legal. Had they not transported him away from the scene, it would have only been an investigative detention and that's legal. Because they kidnapped him under color of law, they couldn't "unarrest" him. That's why the finding of factual innocence is important in this instance.

 

[vc85]

In general:

Just because a DA decides to drop charges doesn't mean the underlying arrest was necessarily unlawful

Just because a jury or judge finds the defendant not guilty doesn't even mean the underlying arrest was unlawful. Remember arrests are based on probable cause. Convictions are based on beyond a reasonable doubt which is a higher standard.It is possible for an officer to arrest on legitimate probable cause and then have the court find that the prosecutor did not meet the higher burden.

I don't know enough about this instance so I'm not going to comment on it.

 

[vc85]

In general:

Just because a DA decides to drop charges doesn't mean the underlying arrest was necessarily unlawful

Just because a jury or judge finds the defendant not guilty doesn't even mean the underlying arrest was unlawful. Remember arrests are based on probable cause. Convictions are based on beyond a reasonable doubt which is a higher standard.It is possible for an officer to arrest on legitimate probable cause and then have the court find that the prosecutor did not meet the higher burden.

I don't know enough about this instance so I'm not going to comment on it.

In my state there are 4 levels of police encounters

Level 1: Request for information -"Hi can I talk to you for a minute". Objectively credible reason. Can be criminal or community service related
Level 2: Common law right of inquiry - founded suspicion that criminal activity is afoot (has been committed, is being committed, about to be committed). Officer may ask pointed and accusatory questions
Level 3: Reasonable Suspicion- reasonable and articulateable suspucion that criminal activity is afoot (also level needed for a car stop for traffic violations and a Terry stop). Objective and reasonably cautious officer would believe criminal activity is underway
Level 4: Probable cause - Reasonable and prudent officer would believe that the elements of a specific crime and required mental state are present. Enough to arrest.

 

[johnrsemt]

Problem is when the PD is telling fire to move apparatus then they are opening Emergency personnel and equipment up to higher danger by other vehicles; happened a few years ago on the east coast somewhere, Police officer actually moved an engine that was blocking a lane on a freeway at a bad wreck. Semi hit the corner of an ambulance and further injured a patient in the ambulance, and the EMT and Medic, also injuring 2 more EMS people on the ground and critically injuring a FF that was pinned between the ambulance and a vehicle in the 1st wreck. But the officer got the other lane open {just before he managed to close the entire direction of the freeway.