Females

[Christopher]

A classic scenario is: patient needs to go ASAP, there are two flights of stairs and he's 350. Not everybody can carry him out, but the time it will take more resources to arrive may significantly affect the outcome. Can you carry him or not? You might be Florence Nightingale and your partner Dr. House, but if you can move this patient quickly and safely, you're doing better for him than a crew that couldn't. Simple enough.

Been there, done that.

You use the reeves sleeve as a slide off the bed. Once you get to a suitable landing you bring the truck to them. Perform as much stabilization as necessary and bring as many resources to you on the landing. Once as stable as they'll permit you just slide them down the stairs on the tarp (a spot of rope helps, but we made do with sheets).

Honest answer is if you can't spend the extra time to get them out safely waiting on extra hands...they probably weren't going to have a good outcome even if a couple of NFL linemen were on the truck that day.

 

[Veneficus]

A classic scenario is: patient needs to go ASAP, there are two flights of stairs and he's 350. Not everybody can carry him out, but the time it will take more resources to arrive may significantly affect the outcome. Can you carry him or not? You might be Florence Nightingale and your partner Dr. House, but if you can move this patient quickly and safely, you're doing better for him than a crew that couldn't. Simple enough.

Maybe, but i bet I could slide him down those stairs with a piece of webbing and a spineboard much faster and safer than you could carry him.

I seriously doubt there are that many time sensitive emergencies anyway.

At some point it might even be advisable to just accept the risk to providers is not worth the possible benefits of the outcome.

Would that not be a part of "scene safety?"

 

[Brandon O]

I agree there is a certain point where you can't go faster. We have a 750lb frequent flier and you can't "rush" that extrication.

But where you draw that line does depend on your capabilities.

Granted that knowing the best techniques matters a lot, and it'd be nice if this were covered in class, or at least pre-hire training.

 

[Veneficus]

Granted that knowing the best techniques matters a lot, and it'd be nice if this were covered in class, or at least pre-hire training.

For all of it's faults in EMS, the fire service still has a lot to offer.

I agree there is a certain point where you can't go faster. We have a 750lb frequent flier and you can't "rush" that extrication.

And you have a rehersed plan for him I'll bet?

You know what I call a 750lber in cardiac arrest?

A corpse...

 

[bigbaldguy]

We have lots of girls working for us. We even have several female - female partnerships and they are treated just as well as the men.

Now in my opinion a true professional will recognize their strengths and weaknesses. That includes females who realize they just aren't as strong as their male counterparts as an example.

It actually bothers me that we still have this topic being brought up. I would think that with all the ergonomics talk lately, you would realize you have one body and once you mess it up your done.

I'm a male but I am not too proud to accept help. We recently were doing a sheet transfer of an elderly patient that weighed probably 100lbs soaking wet. When we did the transfer we had 4 people to help us. Was it overkill? Yeah it was. Did it make it easier? Yeah it did. Why would I turn down help? I got one back, strong or not I am not going to screw it up for anyone.

I don't think the problem is females being accepted, rather I think it is females refusing to be accepted. The sooner you admit your weaknesses the sooner you can overcome.

I work with girls all the time. Many of which are young and petite. I have never had a problem with them pulling their own and I have been happy to work alongside them.

Respect isn't given - its earned. Being female doesn't automatically entitle you to respect.

So do you work with a lot of females under the age of 12 or are you 90+ years old.

I am not in this job to make patients happy. I am here to get them to the help they need.

Why can't you try to do both?

 

[Clare]

A fitness test is part of the recruitment process here; you have to do sit ups, push ups, carry round a 20 kg boxing bag for like 500 metres; carry somebody down two flights of stairs in a stair chair with another person and lift an old style stretcher in an out of the ambulance.

We have the new Stryker stretchers that load onto the tray just by lining them up and pushing and you just have to pull them out and push the button and the legs drop, they are awesome. Some PTS vehicles have the automatic ones that raise and lower the legs and stuff themselves but they are very heavy and quite expensive.

 

[Hunter]

A fitness test is part of the recruitment process here; you have to do sit ups, push ups, carry round a 20 kg boxing bag for like 500 metres; carry somebody down two flights of stairs in a stair chair with another person and lift an old style stretcher in an out of the ambulance.

We have the new Stryker stretchers that load onto the tray just by lining them up and pushing and you just have to pull them out and push the button and the legs drop, they are awesome. Some PTS vehicles have the automatic ones that raise and lower the legs and stuff themselves but they are very heavy and quite expensive.

what a lot of people don't realize is that since they're electric, they're meant for two people to load them in, you do that and they weigh nothing.

 

[PsychoJoe]

what a lot of people don't realize is that since they're electric, they're meant for two people to load them in, you do that and they weigh nothing.

Agreed. The only legitimate complaint I've ever heard about electronic stretchers (the people using them could care less how much they cost), is the affinity for shoulder injuries while waiting for the legs to raise. If you're using two people to hold it up, this shouldn't be an issue. Besides, I'd much rather have shoulder pain than back pain.

 

[mycrofft]

I am a straight male former firefighter in all-male service (just as they got first females), former EMT in mixed service, RN in military and sheriff dept.....


1. If you can meet the physical and educational and emotional demands, welcome aboard. I found mixed crews to be more civil and polite once the men accepted the females (1970's and early 1980's). Just don't use the gender card for excuses or favors, same as not using the cultural card etc. (Yes, there are needs specific to genders, cultures, etc., just don't use them ONLY when you fail or want a perk).

2. There are many sociopathic and sexually stereotyping males , and some females, out there who will more likely lie or try to psychologically or physically dominate a female. Learn what to do to counter these (sometimes dangerous) jerks. Even if it isn't going to work for them, it wastes time and aggravates your workday.

3. There are patients who see females as being more nurturing and less threatening, as a stereotype, than males. It's hard to be a guy on these cases, a male has to think about even his body language*.

*Same with animals. From personal experience, shelter dogs tend to be afraid (and sometimes consequently dangerous) if you have a beard, wear sunglasses, wear a hat, or are male. Probably refers to the same people as we discussed in point 2 above.

 

[Rhonda]

When I did my internship I worked with an all female crew. Those 2 ladies were very much respected by fire and LEO. Not once was an ill comment made towards 3 women working on one truck. Fire didn't ask to put our gurney in the ambulance because they knew we could handle ourselves.
I tend to always take the head of the gurney while lifting because I am 5'11" and I feel the foot end is too low. If my partner is taller than me then they get the head end not because of weight but because of height.
With that being said I am rather sick of girls who think just because they are female they can say oh pity me this job is so hard and no one respects me because I am female. Stop crying and do something about it. Like stated before respect is earned not given out because you are female.

 

[Akulahawk]

I have worked with some fantastic people throughout the years. Notice I didn't say "women" or "men." It's because it didn't matter. Every company I have ever worked for instituted some kind of a lift test. While most guys could pass it, some couldn't. Most girls could pass it as well, if they used proper lifting technique. Some of them couldn't.

Now I do know from prior education that women will generally never be as strong as a man, given equivalent physical training. Women won't bulk up like the guys do anyway. As long as the lift test is reasonable, based on actual job requirements, and is identical for males and females, I really don't care who I'm partnered up with as long as they pass that functional lift test.

Try as we might, because of the nature of EMS, we will not ever completely remove a physical component from the job. That part of the job must be examined and re-examined periodically so realistic functional exams be done for everyone's safety. We can use machinery and technology and whatnot to lighten the load a lot of the time, but there will always be instances where human muscle needs to be used. It's those times that the lift test should be tailored for.

As far as having LGB partners, I've been partnered up with each. Never had an issue. Although I must admit, as a guy, it's a bit different discussing "hot chicks" with a female partner... but then again, it's part of conversation that occurs on the job. It was a little weirder talking about other guys with a gay partner. Regardless, I learned a LOT from those partners that has helped me interact with people over the years.

For me, it's mostly a non-issue.

 

[Kevinf]

What do you all think a general lift test should be? My last call with my current partner was for a bariatric transport. Our patient was over 450lbs and we had an unpowered stretcher. Both my partner and I weigh ~160lbs. So each of us needed to lift 150% or more of our body weight in order to get the stretcher locked in the raised position. I won't lie, that wasn't an easy lift by any means.

Should all companies have a policy requiring a lift assist for loads greater than 300lbs?
Make the lift test a flat 150lbs to waist level?
Is anyone here not able to meet that requirement?

 

[Veneficus]

What do you all think a general lift test should be? My last call with my current partner was for a bariatric transport. Our patient was over 450lbs and we had an unpowered stretcher. Both my partner and I weigh ~160lbs. So each of us needed to lift 150% or more of our body weight in order to get the stretcher locked in the raised position. I won't lie, that wasn't an easy lift by any means.

Should all companies have a policy requiring a lift assist for loads greater than 300lbs?
Make the lift test a flat 150lbs to waist level?
Is anyone here not able to meet that requirement?

No offense, but I think that was absolutley stupid.

That is how people go out on disability.

 

[JDallas]

I live in an area with combined volly fire/ems.
For the last 7 years, the Captain of our lowly fire station has been Doris VanHorn. We're the smallest, most insignificant station (about two-three runs per week) in San Bernardino County (two-three runs per minue),yet notheless the name Doris VanHorn is well-known and respected.
About 50% of our personell are female. With only two exceptions, all our EMTs are females. EMS/Fire service is so largely female in Trona that nobody considers females incapable of, or out of place in, emergency services.

 

[Kevinf]

What do you all think a general lift test should be? My last call with my current partner was for a bariatric transport. Our patient was over 450lbs and we had an unpowered stretcher. Both my partner and I weigh ~160lbs. So each of us needed to lift 150% or more of our body weight in order to get the stretcher locked in the raised position. I won't lie, that wasn't an easy lift by any means.

Should all companies have a policy requiring a lift assist for loads greater than 300lbs?
Make the lift test a flat 150lbs to waist level?
Is anyone here not able to meet that requirement?

No offense, but I think that was absolutley stupid.

That is how people go out on disability.

And your opinion on the specifics of the proposed lift test are? Is 150lbs too much yet? Should it be proportional to body weight?

 

[Brandon O]

A minimum lifting standard should be flat, not scaled, unless they're planning on scaling your patients for you too.

Maybe a 200lb barbell deadlift (this is deeper than most stretcher lifts would be) for five reps.

 

[rennex]

What do you all think a general lift test should be? My last call with my current partner was for a bariatric transport. Our patient was over 450lbs and we had an unpowered stretcher. Both my partner and I weigh ~160lbs. So each of us needed to lift 150% or more of our body weight in order to get the stretcher locked in the raised position. I won't lie, that wasn't an easy lift by any means.

Should all companies have a policy requiring a lift assist for loads greater than 300lbs?
Make the lift test a flat 150lbs to waist level?
Is anyone here not able to meet that requirement?

I believe having a bariatric patient is a trigger for "consider additional resources".

My back aches thinking about picking up a 450 pound guy with just one partner :blink:

 

[abckidsmom]

I believe having a bariatric patient is a trigger for "consider additional resources".

My back aches thinking about picking up a 450 pound guy with just one partner :blink:

Yep. In know I am just a female but my limit for me and a partner is somewhere around 300, depending on their shape. If its a 6'5" 300 pound guy, that's a different story altogether than a 4'10" 300 pound guy. The 6'5" one is way easier to lift.

 

[mycrofft]

I wonder if repetitive/cumulative spinal and other trauma (see ventral hernias) make females and little guys more prone to eventual loss of lifting capacity? I know I still remember the tricks and body mechanics, but at this point all it does it enable me to get a load up that's really going to hurt me. Over time, I feel most med techs and nurses etc have some degree of back injury.

 

[DrParasite]

My last call with my current partner was for a bariatric transport. Our patient was over 450lbs and we had an unpowered stretcher. Both my partner and I weigh ~160lbs. So each of us needed to lift 150% or more of our body weight in order to get the stretcher locked in the raised position. I won't lie, that wasn't an easy lift by any means.

all bariatric calls should get at least 2 extra people (2nd crew, FD, Rescue, etc). I'm 260 lb (and not all muscle). my partners have ranged from 160 lbs to 300 lbs. If we get a 450 lb person on a non-emergency run, we are calling for assistance. They aren't dying, and I am not getting hurt on a non-emergency run.

If we get a 911 call and the person says they are over 450 lbs, that's an automatic rescue dispatch, as well as another BLS if we have them available. Can always cancel them, but if you need them, you will need the help.

male or female, it doesn't matter; if they are above 350, call for help.