EMT accused of ignoring dying NYC woman is killed

that story has the pregnant woman as having a seizure while others say an asthma attack.

Some stories refer to them as EMT, while others say medics. The fact they were dispatchers isn't even mentioned.

Some stories say they called while other say they outright refused to do anything.

The papers carry different accounts.
 
firecoins said:
that story has the pregnant woman as having a seizure while others say an asthma attack.

Some stories refer to them as EMT, while others say medics. The fact they were dispatchers isn't even mentioned.

Some stories say they called while other say they outright refused to do anything.

The papers carry different accounts.
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Which is why I hate journalist.


They fail to ever get stories right, they don't care about getting it right, and they just do stories to sell the papers / commercials and not out of any real interest to "inform the people"
 
schulz said:
Moral of the story(or at least 1 of them) is if your in uniform and someone needs help, help them. Even if its just reassurance, taking command of the scene, making sure 911 is contacted and waiting for them to arrive, start getting a SAMPLE HX, and look good for the bystanders.
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Moral of the story: next time you want to take a coffee break, make sure you take off your uniform shirt so no one can identify you as an EMT
 
schulz said:
If your on coffee break in your EMS uniform with an EMT patch on and you simply walk away from a patient, bystanders, and loved ones begging for your help how do you think thats going to look?
Did you read the comments on that yahoo link and many other news links about the incident in question?
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firecoins said:
that story has the pregnant woman as having a seizure while others say an asthma attack.

Some stories refer to them as EMT, while others say medics. The fact they were dispatchers isn't even mentioned.

Some stories say they called while other say they outright refused to do anything.

The papers carry different accounts.
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Exactly, and as far as I've read NONE of the stories state that anyone was begging them to help. It doesn't even sound like the patrons knew there was something going on until after the dispatcher/EMTs left because the lady was in a back room. One of the few things the accounts seem to agree on is that one employee spoke with the two dispatcher/EMTs.

A google search turned up this article about cause of death. Honestly, if I was working as a dispatcher, I'm not sure I would have started going through this woman's stuff without her telling me to.


I'm not saying I wouldn't have done something, but I am saying I will not do something just for appearances. If I'm involved in a situation and see that there is nothing I can do, I will tell the family/co-workers/bystanders "There is nothing I can do right now". Followed by whatever further explanation is needed (She needs a medication that the people on the ambulance have, or whatever).
 
Linuss said:
Which is why I hate journalist.


They fail to ever get stories right, they don't care about getting it right, and they just do stories to sell the papers / commercials and not out of any real interest to "inform the people"
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x1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
Aidey said:
I'm not saying I wouldn't have done something, but I am saying I will not do something just for appearances. If I'm involved in a situation and see that there is nothing I can do, I will tell the family/co-workers/bystanders "There is nothing I can do right now". Followed by whatever further explanation is needed (She needs a medication that the people on the ambulance have, or whatever).
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But then you would wait with her till the ambulance got there I hope. If yes then you are just by being there appearing to help. Fine explain that w/o medications all I can do is relay what I am seeing to the 911 operator, but at least you are in the peoples minds making effort and reality you are making ever effort by doing what you can do.
 
Hey man, You can do whatever you want, but I do not want to end up all over the news being slandered and upsetting everyone on the scene. Just your uniformed presence and enthusiasm in wanting to help the patient is a lot better than saying call 911 and leaving.
 
Another update on this. This guy never gets a break, not even when hes dead.
Here are a couple lines from the new article and a link

NEW YORK — A disgraced EMT who last year allegedly ignored a dying pregnant woman's pleas during his break — and was gunned down last week during a street brawl — will get a funeral with full FDNY honors, sources said yesterday.

"He watched a woman die in a coffee shop. That should not warrant the pipe and drums corps," the source said.

http://www.ems1.com/ems-news/852147-full-honor-funeral-planned-for-slain-ny-emt/

Anyone here still wanna be "that guy" to the public instead of doing something, anything....
 
Nope...

Oh, and for the record, let's just stop teaching everyone first aid. Hell... why teach boy scouts about seizures and how to recognize a heart attack. After all, what's the point if the only thing they can do is call 911?
 
The man was convicted in the court of public opinion, while the investigation still hasn't said he did anything wrong. He was still on the job, doing his job.

I still believe in innocent until proven guilty, and conviction based on facts, not on various conflicting statements from witnesses. Nor based on statements from a mayor who makes public statement condoning actions that may not have even happened.

I stand by my earlier statement: the moral of this entire situation is if you go out for coffee on a break, make sure you take your uniform shirt off, so no one can identify you as an EMT. This way if something does happen, and you help or don't help, no one can accuse you of not doing your job.
 
I didn't realize that anyone was contesting that the only action he did do was call 911 and then walk away. In a situation like this, that's the only facts that matter.
 
JPINFV said:
I didn't realize that anyone was contesting that the only action he did do was call 911 and then walk away. In a situation like this, that's the only facts that matter.
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I agree, only the facts matter. unfortunately, we don't know what the facts are; all we have is various witnesses, many of whom have given conflicting reports on what the EMTs did and did not do. In fact, no one has even gotten the EMTs side of the story, since they were advised by legal counsel to not speak to the press.

in fact, when the original incident happened, the person who was always on the news was the deceased patient's mother, who WASN'T EVEN THERE. So your emotional outrage was coming based on statements from a witness who wasn't there.

I don't know what happened. I wasn't there. I read many many news articles on this incident. several witnesses, several different statements, several different views on what was done and what wasn't done. and some say the EMTs did more than say call 911 and leave, while others say they said to call 911 and finished their sandwich, another said they call dispatch directly and requested an ambulance, and one said they checked on her. I wasn't there, I don't know, and I'm sure the investigation would find the truth.

Here is what I do know, and what are facts: FDNY has a Rat Squad, whose sole purpose is to investigate allegations of impropriety in FDNY; This FDNY EMT dispatcher was under investigation, but was not suspended, not fired, and any results of the investigation have not been completed nor reported to the public, and was still certified as an EMT by both NYS, the DOH, and REMAC; in this country, we believe in innocent proven guilty, yet the court of public opinion never plays by those rules, but we (his fellow EMS people) should support our brothers & sister unless they are proven to have committed the crime they have committed.

But that's just my views, your views on how we should view this field might vary.
 
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I never said he committed a crime, Maybe you could argue "Duty to act" but I am not even talking about that. I do not think anyone is.
 
DrParasite said:
Here is what I do know, and what are facts: FDNY has a Rat Squad, whose sole purpose is to investigate allegations of impropriety in FDNY; This FDNY EMT dispatcher was under investigation, but was not suspended, not fired, and any results of the investigation have not been completed nor reported to the public, and was still certified as an EMT by both NYS, the DOH, and REMAC; in this country, we believe in innocent proven guilty, yet the court of public opinion never plays by those rules, but we (his fellow EMS people) should support our brothers & sister unless they are proven to have committed the crime they have committed.
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Innocence until proven guilty doesn't relieve us of coming to a decision based on the information at hand. Just because the "rat squad" (which shows your complete bias, by the way) didn't decide anything doesn't mean anything. Just because East Palo Alto PD doesn't seem to care that one of their officers made a murder threat on face book (Rod Tuason) or Seattle PD doesn't care that their officers commit what would otherwise be a hate crime (Shandy Cobane), and regardless of what their "rat squad" says, doesn't relieve or prevent me from forming an opinion based on the information provided. Just because it isn't illegal or against any policy for an EMT in uniform to ignore someone asking for help because they're on break of off duty doesn't mean that I have to ignore it.

As far as "supporting our brothers and sisters," hell no. The only time that tired line is dragged out is when someone screws up. It's the "brother and sister and supporting without question" attitude that got 2 BFD fire fighters killed in 2007 who were both, according to leaked results (and I'll wager a sizable sum that there's a reason why the results weren't released), under the influence of intoxicating substances (at least 2 times the legal limit of alcohol, adjusted for decomposition, and cocaine). When you support people who do stupid things, you condone doing stupid things and are just as bad as those doing stupid things. Sorry, but someone who would just walk away while in uniform is not a brother of mine. I'd argue that neither is someone who would just walk away out of uniform as well, but there's a big difference between being Bob, and EMT Bob.

Why is true professionalism so hard to find in EMS?
 
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JPINFV said:
Innocence until proven guilty doesn't relieve us of coming to a decision based on the information at hand.
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Your free to come with any opinion you want. The information at hand is lacking at best. We have several different media accounts of what happaned. The media stories should NOT be trusted. My experience with EMS and NYC media would lead me to believe that the media hasn't the slightest idea what happaned.

If your basing true professionalism on what you think happaned here, you should just stop looking. Incorrect media accounts are not the place to look.
 
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Ok, does anyone have a news article or other source that stated that the two EMT dispatchers waited around until they could hand off to a responding ambulance crew?
 
My apologies for starting another thread.

IMHO, the EMT Dispatchers should have remained on scene, disregarded their food (what EMT can afford $8 at Au Bon every day...hear of a thermos?) and stay with patient until ambulance arrival or someone from the building respond with a bag of gear.

Had they stayed at the scene and awaited the ambulance, and the public made a fuss, I would have supported them.

I supported the Security Guards in in the transit station, Seatle I think, who got :censored::censored::censored::censored: for standing by while passenger assaulted....because they did their job, called it in, maintained visual contact from a safe distance, and awaited police....the public gave them :censored::censored::censored::censored: but everywhere i could I posted they did what their job was.

These dispatchers did not.
 
How do we know they did not stay on scene until the ambulance got there? A news article? We do not have the account of anyone on scene. The people who feel most strongly against what the EMT did or did not do have based their opinions on articles with unknown accuracy.

No one here has spoken to the 2 EMT/dispatchers, one whom is now dead.

No one here has spoken to the LICH or FDNY units that responded.
 
Yes, I see your point.

In that case, I would be interested in reviewing the investigation reports and witness statements.

Had I been in the same scenario, I would asked AuBon for gloves, have sat patient in the postion of comfort, call 911, then call the dispatch directly to expedite and have someone respond from building with a bag, I would have coached the woman to breathe normally, assisted with abuterol if she had it, and directed a compitent person to wait outside and escort the responding EMTs in to the store. I would have relayed info to them.

Then I would have walked away and drank my coffee.
 
And after reviewing all the posts.

I will strongly consider never going to a store of any kind in uniform.

This is not only to CYA, but also to save money on take food.

Had these EMTs brown bagged and thermos food and drink....the drama would not have happened.

I am 44 years old, I have probably spent over $ 100k on needless crappy takeout food in my life....
 
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