EMT accused of ignoring dying NYC woman is killed

Exactly how busy can you look with no equipment? You can only take a pulse and reposition for so long until it's obvious you're stalling.
 
Sasha said:
Exactly how busy can you look with no equipment? You can only take a pulse and reposition for so long until it's obvious you're stalling.
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The public will at least see effort. Again not saying all will care but it is easier to defend than doing nothing. Heck get the public involved. Ask if you can borrow a jacket. Ask a couple to go out to wave down the ambulance. All the activity is perceived as positive effort. Honestly there was no hostility involved from the public until they did nothing. had they dialed 911 while going to the patient the public would have had no reason to become hostile in the short time it took for an ambulance.
 
I never read anything about the public on scene being hostile, just all the people who heard about it after the fact.

There is still the problem of playing into public perception. I am NOT comfortable with doing things just to look good for the public. It's one thing to be professional and polite, it's another to play-act because that is what people think you should be doing - with no regard for reality. How is them holding her hand and looking busy any different than a show code?
 
People seem to have it in their minds that you can do nothing, without equipment.

If the pt is seizing, protect them from harm until the seizure stops. Maintain an airway, once the seizure stops.

If the pt is having an Asthma attack, get them in a comfortable position. Hold their hand and talk to them, to keep them as calm as you can. Coach them on their breathing. Assist them with inhaler, if they have one.

All this can be done, till ambulance arrives. Medic417 is absolutely right. This is all a way of helping and the public sees it as helping. This is not "showing", this is helping. There will be people that think you should be doing more. That is why you explain to them that you are doing what you can ,till equipment and meds arrive. Most people are not stupid, they will see this. Yes, you will always have a few ignorant ones that will complain no matter what. But, at least you know you tried all you could.

To many are scared of lawsuits that never even happen. Do what you can now and deal with the rest later.
 
I agree with reaper. There will always be something you can do in an emergency without equipment, even if its nothing more than trying to reassure and protect the patient. An asthma patient is one of the very few occasions when there is very little you can do without medications as an EMT. I think the EMTs screwed up in this situation by never even making an attempt to help the patient or find out what was wrong with her. Doing a detailed assessment of the patient may give the medics vital information to save the patient when they arrive.

All of that said, if these were simply dispatchers that had an EMT cert, they might not have had any direct patient care experience or assessment experience. They could be as scared as a day 1 emt on that scene.
 
Just having someone on scene with the presence of mind to take command of the scene and ensure what can be done has been done is doing a lot more than just turning your back and walking away.
 
JPINFV said:
Just having someone on scene with the presence of mind to take command of the scene and ensure what can be done has been done is doing a lot more than just turning your back and walking away.
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Agreed. Also they where in uniform and identified as EMT's. Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda, ect ect...
I sure hope at the end of the police investigation this does not link this dispatcher being shot because of the incident in question.

Moral of the story(or at least 1 of them) is if your in uniform and someone needs help, help them. Even if its just reassurance, taking command of the scene, making sure 911 is contacted and waiting for them to arrive, start getting a SAMPLE HX, and look good for the bystanders.
 
Ack. Will someone please explain to me why we should help "to look good for the bystanders"? I'm sorry, but that is a horrible reason! If I'm going to step in it will be because I can help in some way, not because it looks good.
 
If your on coffee break in your EMS uniform with an EMT patch on and you simply walk away from a patient, bystanders, and loved ones begging for your help how do you think thats going to look?
Did you read the comments on that yahoo link and many other news links about the incident in question?
 
So.. here's a question for the "but it's just looking good, it doesn't matter" people. Driving to a posting spot one day, I came across a car on it's side by the middle divider. 3 passangers (15, 40, and an infant), fully restrained. No real complaint outside of the fact that their car is on it's side, hence making them trapped. In a situation like this, I can't do anything except wait for fire to arrive. Since I haven't been dispatched to this call and I can't do anything pending the fire department (which would also include paramedics), why shouldn't I pack up and continue on to my post?
 
JP, I just want to make sure I am understanding you correctly.
Your in your personal vehicle, in your uniform, and come upon this car wreck?
 
schulz said:
JP, I just want to make sure I am understanding you correctly.
Your in your personal vehicle, in your uniform, and come upon this car wreck?
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He's in an ambulance.
 
You should have just packed up and left, My captain kicks the privates off the scene so fast that even if they did have something important to say, which they don't they are gone by the time we set the parking brake.
 
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atropine said:
You should have just packed up and left, My captain kicks the privates off the scene so fast that even if they did have something important to say, which they don't they are gone by the time we set the parking brake.
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Weird. I do that with FD most of the time.

Nah, I'm kidding. I'm a professional. I take report have an orderly transfer of care and only dismiss the FD first responders if I won't need the extra hands for some rare reason.
 
WolfmanHarris said:
Weird. I do that with FD most of the time.

Nah, I'm kidding. I'm a professional. I take report have an orderly transfer of care and only dismiss the FD first responders if I won't need the extra hands for some rare reason.
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Yeah, I hear you, I would keep them just to find out what they saw, but bugles on the class B say different, and I don't have any.:rolleyes:
 
atropine said:
You should have just packed up and left, My captain kicks the privates off the scene so fast that even if they did have something important to say, which they don't they are gone by the time we set the parking brake.
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That's nice. If I'm on a TC, I give report, ask if they want me to stay and act accordingly. If the fire crew wants to act like a-holes, I don't take it personally.
 
schulz said:
JP, I just want to make sure I am understanding you correctly.
Your in your personal vehicle, in your uniform, and come upon this car wreck?
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Ambulance. But if I can't effect an extrication, does it matter? All I'm going to do is stand there with my hands in my pockets and make it look like I'm doing anything.


For the record, this is pure devils advocate for the "Why stop at all" people.
 
Aidey said:
Ack. Will someone please explain to me why we should help "to look good for the bystanders"? I'm sorry, but that is a horrible reason! If I'm going to step in it will be because I can help in some way, not because it looks good.
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So, you do not consider comfort, scene control or allowing no further harm, helping someone?
 
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