Duty to Act Info

[trevor1189]

First off, get your EMT.

Second off, don't get a trauma kit.

Third, only stop if it JUST occured, and there are dead and dying everywhere.

thanks very helpful.

 

[trevor1189]

Anyone have a REAL response to my question on the previous page?

 

[medic417]

Anyone have a REAL response to my question on the previous page?

Lets say you choose to move the patient for no good reason other than theres a comfortable spot to sit nearby. You move patient with no c-spine or spinal precautions. Patient becomes disabled. Yes you would be held to a higher degree of liability because your "training" taught you not to that. You did harm by violating the "training" you had recieved. The average person moves the person they would be protected because their ignorance is true ignorance. You with "training" can not plead the ignorance card.

 

[VentMedic]

A very good article:

Where Duty Ends: The Perils & Pitfalls of Off-Duty Response

From the September 2004 Issue of Emergency Medical Services

http://www.emsresponder.com/publication/article.jsp?pubId=1&id=2046

Have your EMT instructor explain your state's EMS and Good Sam laws or at least point you into that direction.

If you plan on running around with a trauma bag and stopping at all the accidents you come across, at least make sure you:
have a reflective vest
park your car out of harm's way (it will attract rubber neckers)
don't stop with your family members in the car
and get extra personal medical/life insurance plans.

 

[imurphy]

Massachusetts: Duty to report, NO duty to Aid!

There are several laws in Massachusetts insulating those rendering aid from liability, but no law requiring a bystander to provide assistance. Separate statutes free EMS personnel, physicians and nurses, and the general public trained in CPR from personal liability. Many sources suggest that Massachusetts has a “duty to aid” law, which requires witnesses to come to the assistance of crime victims. In fact, this law creates a duty to report, but not a duty to aid.

Chapter 268, section 40

"
Whoever knows that another person is a victim of aggravated rape, rape, murder, manslaughter or armed robbery and is at the scene of said crime shall, to the extent that said person can do so without danger or peril to himself or others, report said crime to an appropriate law enforcement official as soon as reasonably practicable.
"

Chapter 111C: Section 21

"
No EMS personnel certified, accredited or otherwise approved under this chapter, and no additional personnel certified or authorized under section 9, who in the performance of their duties and in good faith render emergency first aid, cardiopulmonary resuscitation, transportation, or other EMS, to an injured person or to a person incapacitated by illness shall be personally liable as a result of rendering such aid or services or, in the case of an emergency medical technician or additional personnel, as a result of transporting such person to a hospital or other health care facility, nor shall they be liable to a hospital for its expenses if, under emergency conditions, they cause the admission of such person to said hospital.
"


References:
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/268-40.htm

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/111c-21.htm

 

[trevor1189]

A very good article:

Where Duty Ends: The Perils & Pitfalls of Off-Duty Response

From the September 2004 Issue of Emergency Medical Services

http://www.emsresponder.com/publication/article.jsp?pubId=1&id=2046

Have your EMT instructor explain your state's EMS and Good Sam laws or at least point you into that direction.

If you plan on running around with a trauma bag and stopping at all the accidents you come across, at least make sure you:
have a reflective vest
park your car out of harm's way (it will attract rubber neckers)
don't stop with your family members in the car
and get extra personal medical/life insurance plans.

Thanks for the article, good read. B)

 

[trevor1189]

Pennsylvania

Found this for pennsylvania:

CHAPTER 83. PARTICULAR RIGHTS AND IMMUNITIES
§ 8331. Medical good Samaritan civil immunity.

(a) General rule.--Any physician or any other practitioner of the healing arts or any registered nurse, licensed by any state, who happens by chance upon the scene of an emergency or who arrives on the scene of an emergency by reason of serving on an emergency call panel or similar committee of a county medical society or who is called to the scene of an emergency by the police or other duly constituted officers of a government unit or who is present when an emergency occurs and who, in good faith, renders emergency care at the scene of the emergency, shall not be liable for any civil damages as a result of any acts or omissions by such physician or practitioner or registered nurse in rendering the emergency care, except any acts or omissions intentionally designed to harm or any grossly negligent acts or omissions which result in harm to the person receiving emergency care.

(b) Definition.--As used in this section "good faith" shall include, but is not limited to, a reasonable opinion that the immediacy of the situation is such that the rendering of care should not be postponed until the patient is hospitalized.


Didn't see anything about being required to stop though...

 

[NEMed2]

In my area of small cow town CT we have mutual aid agreements with surrounding towns and as such, I would stop and at least investigate a wreck, or take a look at someone who was sick if someone asked for help. But I also cary a gear bag in my car that allows me to render care to a BLS level. (Required equipment for my department)

That being said, outside of my area I'm not about to stop & try and take care of someone who doesn't want my assistance unless they are really sick/bleeding everywhere. And I wouldn't offer that I'm an EMT unless it becomes very apparent that I'm doing something a lay person would have no idea about. Good samaritan law aside, I like to keep my cert where it is.

 

[EMT11KDL]

It's my understanding that in MA there is no "duty to act" if you are off-duty. That if you do respond to assist a person with an injury or medical issue that you act at your level of certification. If your an EMT-B you would provide care at that level. Anything less could be considered negligent even with the good samaritan laws.

This is a bit confusing though... if I am off duty and I find a woman that was holding an icepack to her head because she tripped and hit her head... She has no AMS, Pupils = round and reactive, she is pink-warm & dry. No loss of consciousness w/ Slight nausea and dizziness that went away after sitting for a bit. BUT I didn't put her in a collar with a back board (because I was off duty at my non-emt job) and just recommended that she go to the hospital or see her doctor ASAP. She didn't want an ambulance and it didn't seem she needed one. She was picked up and taken to her doctor.

So would that be negligent? Should you really not get involved unless it is major trauma, because then you would call an ambulance anyway?

NO this would not be negligent.

for negligent ALL 4 must apply. It is an all or nothing case.

* There is a duty to act
* There is a breach of that duty
* The breach causes an affect
* Damage has been inflicted to another

 

[dallasdame]

Texas has no duty to act laws but if you do...they have a good samaritan shield law.......which of course does not apply to EMTs because we would "normally expect payment for services". If you screw up, you still get sued.

http://www.premack.com/columns/2003/2003-03-18.htm

 

["Doc" Fox]

As far as I know, Illinois does not have a Duty To Act statute. Even though most EMT's, and FF I know would stop and provide help, unless there are EMT's/FF, or LEO's on the scene already. At most MVAs, I have personally stopped before, and asked everyone involved if theye need medical help, cell phone, what have you, and have stated that I am a First Responder. Usually, the police/sheriffs department shows by then, and has already activied there EMS to respond to the scene.

 

[FF177EMS583]

PENNSYLVANIA DOES.

If you have a FF sticker or EMS sticker or the platees as we;; you have to pull over to assist who ever is in danger unles a BLS/ALS unit is on Scene. I was driving to my girlfriends house in FREELAND,PA when HAZLE TWP FIRE/RESCUE was dispatched to

ST RTE 940 for a public assist so we arrived on scene along witha fire police unit from a neighboring community . the woman called LUZERNE COUNTY 911 statiing that she couldnt get out of her basement when we arrived on scene ,she was flagging us down,and stated that her hamburger was going to catch fire. she had locked all her doors as me and another FF from sugarloaf /West Hazleton were checking the doors and trying to see where the stove was she continued to yell at us that the doors are locked. we simply kept saying , "MAM, CALM DOWN" she kept pestering us as we were trying to work. finally i looked at her and said "MAM, YOU NEED TO CALM DOWN, THIS IS WHAT WE ARE TRAINED FOR AND WE CANT WORK WITH YOU YELLING AT US."

 

[BLSBoy]

PENNSYLVANIA DOES.

If you have a FF sticker or EMS sticker or the platees as we;; you have to pull over to assist who ever is in danger unles a BLS/ALS unit is on Scene. I was driving to my girlfriends house in FREELAND,PA when HAZLE TWP FIRE/RESCUE was dispatched to

ST RTE 940 for a public assist so we arrived on scene along witha fire police unit from a neighboring community . the woman called LUZERNE COUNTY 911 statiing that she couldnt get out of her basement when we arrived on scene ,she was flagging us down,and stated that her hamburger was going to catch fire. she had locked all her doors as me and another FF from sugarloaf /West Hazleton were checking the doors and trying to see where the stove was she continued to yell at us that the doors are locked. we simply kept saying , "MAM, CALM DOWN" she kept pestering us as we were trying to work. finally i looked at her and said "MAM, YOU NEED TO CALM DOWN, THIS IS WHAT WE ARE TRAINED FOR AND WE CANT WORK WITH YOU YELLING AT US."

I need a doc on the line for sedation............<_<

 

[cprguys]

NYS Does not have a duty to act when you are off duty

page 2 second paragraph
http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/pdf/98-05.pdf

 

[trevor1189]

PENNSYLVANIA DOES.

If you have a FF sticker or EMS sticker or the platees as we;; you have to pull over to assist who ever is in danger unles a BLS/ALS unit is on Scene. I was driving to my girlfriends house in FREELAND,PA when HAZLE TWP FIRE/RESCUE was dispatched to

ST RTE 940 for a public assist so we arrived on scene along witha fire police unit from a neighboring community . the woman called LUZERNE COUNTY 911 statiing that she couldnt get out of her basement when we arrived on scene ,she was flagging us down,and stated that her hamburger was going to catch fire. she had locked all her doors as me and another FF from sugarloaf /West Hazleton were checking the doors and trying to see where the stove was she continued to yell at us that the doors are locked. we simply kept saying , "MAM, CALM DOWN" she kept pestering us as we were trying to work. finally i looked at her and said "MAM, YOU NEED TO CALM DOWN, THIS IS WHAT WE ARE TRAINED FOR AND WE CANT WORK WITH YOU YELLING AT US."

I have never seen a sticker mentioned in duty to act law... :unsure:
I have a star of life sticker on my car. Does that mean I am required to stop an assist?


Can you provide a link?

 

[JPINFV]

The issues with stickers is probably more of a practical thing than a legal thing. You can make all the 'duty to act' laws regarding off duty providers you want, but how exactly are you going to identify which cars have an off duty provider on it? Having stickers on your car doesn't change the law, it just puts a huge blinking sign saying "Hi Mom, I'm breaking the law!" when ever the car passes an accident.

 

[wolfwyndd]

PENNSYLVANIA DOES.
If you have a FF sticker or EMS sticker or the platees as we;; you have to pull over to assist who ever is in danger unles a BLS/ALS unit is on Scene. I was driving to my girlfriends house in FREELAND,PA when HAZLE TWP FIRE/RESCUE was dispatched to
[story snipped for brevity.]

I believe your story, HOWEVER, I find it very difficult to believe that even with whacker lights and sirens and stickers and even a PLATE that says FF/EMT that if you're off duty you are REQUIRED to stop and render assistance. Unless I'm missing something, I've searched http://www.pacode.com and I can't find any reference at all to 'duty to act' for off duty personnel. I'm not saying that most of us WOULDN'T stop to help, only that I can't find a REQUIREMENT. Personally, I'd like to see a code cited.

 

[JennyKitten76]

For any military medics out there (as I'm sure there must be plenty)

Our unit was just briefed: regardless of our status (we're reservists), location, etc - we must act.

I guess there has been some discussion about this, I haven't seen our dictate in writing, but it was made clear.

Punishable by whom: IDK. Enforcable how: IDK.

I didn't ask because I don't care. I will act unless my life is in danger. Thats just me.

Any military medics who want clarification might want to find out.

 

[KillTank]

Texas does not have the law but I would stop to help. I know I would want someone to stop and help one of my loved ones..

 

[DHarris52]

Not for nothing, but unless you carry a jump kit in your POV, how much aid can you actually render at the scene of an accident?

Sticker or no sticker, I just don't see how these laws are enforceable. Without the proper supplies/equipment, all you're going to do is get in the way.