Difference between BLS and ALS calls?

[usalsfyre]

I know a lot of the people that really trash Seattle & King County and I know for a fact that the majority of people that bad mouth us on here and other forums have not been able to get hired with us. There are also a few fellas that didn't make probation after completing school and so they have big chips as well. I won't get into a public debate with anyone on here but if you have interest or questions about riding send me a message.

The old "they're just jealous" defense, real original. My criticism is not over life threats, its over the fact that the KCM1 and many other chase car based systems don't seem to think things like analgesics and anti-emetics are important. As a previous patient and a current provider and administrator that irritates me to no end. Paramedics don't "save lives". What they really do is ease pain and suffering. When you can come up with a better constructed argument for that than "its a bunch of whining scrubs" come back to me.

For the record I've not nor do I really ever see my self moving to Seattle to work on a truck. So that one doesn't work here.

 

[Tigger]

I know a lot of the people that really trash Seattle & King County and I know for a fact that the majority of people that bad mouth us on here and other forums have not been able to get hired with us. There are also a few fellas that didn't make probation after completing school and so they have big chips as well. I won't get into a public debate with anyone on here but if you have interest or questions about riding send me a message.

How exactly do you "know for a fact" that most people on this site with criticisms of your agency have not been able to get hired?

 

[whitelcpl0311]

Hey guys, just stumbled across this site. I'm an EMT-B student in RI and I think I can add to how bad it sucks for the patient to have the person that is taking care of them be way in over their head as far as training/experience. (Just starting out EMT-B training, looking to apply to PA school when i finish my B.S. in biology in 2 years)

I was a Marine Corps Rifleman in Afghanistan in 2009, certified as a "combat lifesaver." While this is a good course, it is only 3 weeks long. On a patrol, both our corpsman (medics) became incapacitated by an IED (1 dead, 1 wounded with shrapnel to the eyes.) We also had 4 marines down, 2 dead, 2 severely wounded. So I'm this 20 year old Rifleman (my job was to kill people not save them), with a small medpack containing, H bandages, gauze, quickclot, and some mobic+ acetaminophen. The first guy I get to has an arterial bleed on his neck, which somehow i managed to stop by applying pressure and alot of gauze (how this happened I really dont know, i was worried i was pushing too hard on his neck). But I heard a gurgling sound, which I thought indicated a sucking chest wound (from my short training). So I'm getting ready with a large gauge needle to go in between this guys ribs (tension pneumo thorax i think?) Turns out, his windpipe was punctured and thats where the sound was coming from, so i refrained (thank god). I literally was winging his medical care... unfortunately I had no choice... we were a 30 min helicopter ride from the nearest base. (Somehow The guy did end up making it)


Sorry for rambling but I was just trying to point out how bad it sucks to be completely unqualified for taking care of a patient, and having no other choice. Complete Despair. Anyways, I'm paying CAREFUL attention in my EMT-B class as to not get that feeling of "Oh **** i have no idea what to do" ever again.

Still not sure of how my local EMS system works... but i certainly would not feel comfortable riding around with just a new fellow basic.

This site looks pretty cool, and I look forward to contributing to this community!Also I'd like to thank everyone on this site for what they do, fire/EMS/Police truly do not get the appreciation they deserve!

 

[NomadicMedic]

How exactly do you "know for a fact" that most people on this site with criticisms of your agency have not been able to get hired?

I am also curious about this.

 

[NYMedic828]

In Seattle & King County Washington any patient that gets an epi pen used on them is always going to get a Medic eval. As far as transport is concerned you will see BLS transport a majority of these patients as most are not complicated and have a documented history of same/scrip for their own epi pen etc. As far as BLS transporting truly sick people with airway issues or serious trauma or any other of the horror stories you hear on here I can tell you it doesn't happen. If I put a sick person in an ambualnce that should have been in my truck under my care I am going to hear about it from the Doctor at the recieving hospital. If it is really bad he will call my Medical Director and if he gets involved then I am in real, real, BIG TIME trouble. Most services do not have any where near the level of Physician involvment in their programs compared to ours. I know because I spent close to 20 years working in Washington State in Pierce, Thurston, and Kitsap County. I spent the majority of my life working Private Ambulance and have been an EMT getting patients from Seattle and King County Medics. No system is perfect. Not even ours! We welcome riders all the time. I know a lot of the people that really trash Seattle & King County and I know for a fact that the majority of people that bad mouth us on here and other forums have not been able to get hired with us. There are also a few fellas that didn't make probation after completing school and so they have big chips as well. I won't get into a public debate with anyone on here but if you have interest or questions about riding send me a message.

Sure do know how to make friends in a hurry.

 

[Sandog]

1. When talking about specific fields, you have to be specific to that field. Someone who has a PhD in Womyns Studies has more education than you, but that doesn't mean that you would let Dr. Womyn Studies take over for you when they have no EMS training.

2. Basic science degrees provide an excellent jumping off point both for applied education (like paramedic training, and both for self an formal studying), however it does not, on its own, make an EMT able to practice as a paramedic.

3. Ditto for military experience. Actually, why is it that people who were employed by the military all of a sudden think they don't have to jump through the same hoops or that it gives them some sort of divine knowledge about anything and everything? Ok, congrats, you did a handful of advanced procedures on a group of people that, by and large, are very healthy when it comes to chronic diseases. You know, a population that's completely different than the non-military population.

So, yes, when talking about EMS specifically, the only thing that matters is the amount of training in emergency medicine, emergency nursing, or EMS.

Okay, I think I see a misunderstanding here. When I hear "undereducated", my assumption is one lacking in education, i.e. high school dropout, or no post-secondary school. To me, "EMT-B are undereducated" sounds like a person aiming to get a GED one day.

As for my bio degree, I think my 2 semesters of molecular bio gives me a good understanding into the mechanics of human physiology.

And why do I mention my military background? I think I was afforded a unique education which adds to my skill set and further removes me from the "undereducated" population.

Now, I do agree, when it comes to EMS, my skill set is lacking, but I am not "undereducated".

 

[JPINFV]

Okay, I think I see a misunderstanding here. When I hear "undereducated", my assumption is one lacking in education, i.e. high school dropout, or no post-secondary school. To me, "EMT-B are undereducated" sounds like a person aiming to get a GED one day.

...and when it comes to medicine and health care the EMT curriculum is severely lacking, therefore making EMTs lacking in education in the field they are practicing in.

As for my bio degree, I think my 2 semesters of molecular bio gives me a good understanding into the mechanics of human physiology.

I have a BS in biology, a MS in biomedical science and am halfway through my 3rd year of medical school. Would you like me to run a cardiac arrest on you or a paramedic? Who has more education? In an applied science field, you have to be able to apply the science, not just think great thoughts.

And why do I mention my military background? I think I was afforded a unique education which adds to my skill set and further removes me from the "undereducated" population.

6 years in the Navy doing, what? A military physician and the guy who watches the front gate of the base both can have 6 years experience, but you didn't qualify the experience as anything besides a number. Furthermore, different patient populations.

 

[VFlutter]

And why do I mention my military background? I think I was afforded a unique education which adds to my skill set and further removes me from the "undereducated" population.

Not necessarily directed at you but it irks me when military medics argue that experience doing advanced procedures in a combat setting validates them as a superior provider and somehow entitles them in the civilian world. Just because you were shown how to perform a surigcal cric, which is a relatively simple procedure, does not mean that you should be allowed to function at the level of a paramedic without paramedic education. Being taught a skill with little education to support it does not make you any less undereducated. Kind of like the navy corpsmans arguing the should be entitled to tests for RN because they did nurse like tasks.

Put on flame suit

 

[EpiEMS]

...and when it comes to medicine and health care the EMT curriculum is severely lacking, therefore making EMTs lacking in education in the field they are practicing in.

We all agree on the first part -- the EMT curriculum doesn't cover enough. But this is not to say that EMTs with supplementary education are deficient. But that's not to say that EMTs who also have education in related fields are "deficient" (I don't like the pejorative word, but it's the only one I can come up with).

I have a BS in biology, a MS in biomedical science and am halfway through my 3rd year of medical school. Would you like me to run a cardiac arrest on you or a paramedic? Who has more education? In an applied science field, you have to be able to apply the science, not just think great thoughts.

Valid point -- but couldn't it be argued that somebody with a good basic science background who is ALSO an EMT has a nice mix of both, certainly at the BLS level?

6 years in the Navy doing, what? A military physician and the guy who watches the front gate of the base both can have 6 years experience, but you didn't qualify the experience as anything besides a number. Furthermore, different patient populations.

Well, as a young, healthy person, I'd rather have the average military medic (an EMT-level 68W, say) take care of me if I received a serious traumatic injury than an average paramedic...But that's tangential, I suppose. The entry-level military medic is a trauma expert, no bones about it. I'm not really sure whether that necessarily means he or she is better at medical care (specifically, as in medical vs. trauma; but also in the sense of medical care as in health care).

Not necessarily directed at you but it irks me when military medics argue that experience doing advanced procedures in a combat setting validates them as a superior provider and somehow entitles them in the civilian world. Just because you were shown how to perform a surigcal cric, which is a relatively simple procedure, does not mean that you should be allowed to function at the level of a paramedic without paramedic education. Being taught a skill with little education to support it does not make you any less undereducated. Kind of like the navy corpsmans arguing the should be entitled to tests for RN because they did nurse like tasks.

As a paramedic, not fresh out of the gate, sure -- but I could see a military medic to AEMT bridge being very plausible with not too much additional training (and a military medic to paramedic with roughly half a year of schooling: viz. http://www.lcc.edu/nursing/militarymedic/)

 

[whitelcpl0311]

I was a marine rifleman so I had a great deal of experience with Navy Corpsmen. I've seen some that are absolutely pro at dealing with trauma with a VERY limited availability of medical supplies. Of course with every profession, there are slugs that slip through the cracks. Especially in the military, where you can't get "fired" unless you reallllllllllly go out of your way. I remember one time when I thought i might have had strep throat ( couldn't speak at all, sore, high temp), I went to the battalion aid station (clinic run by corpsmen). This guy is sitting there quizzing me on my symptoms while sitting on a computer looking at Web M.D. I had no medical experience at this time but I was still like really?! I ended up going to the field for a week in early march with tonsilitis because they said I was fine to go. I was a corporal and had 16 marines that i had to get from point a to point b with absolutely no voice and a high body temperature. Of course it rained 5/7 days.

I'll add that most of my medical training in the military was taught by some meathead with a dip in his mouth, spitting into an empty monster can, swearing profusely and skipping steps. I agree with a bridge program for emtc/aemt but certainly not paramedic or RN!!

 

[Shishkabob]

I was a marine rifleman so I had a great deal of experience with Navy Corpsmen.

Something about this sentence does not compute...

 

[EpiEMS]

Something about this sentence does not compute...

The Navy does provide all medical, dental, and chaplain support for the Marine Corps. USMC units have Navy corpsmen, physicians, nurses, sundry other healthcare personnel and chaplains attached.

 

[whitelcpl0311]

The Navy does provide all medical, dental, and chaplain support for the Marine Corps. USMC units have Navy corpsmen, physicians, nurses, sundry other healthcare personnel and chaplains attached.

Thank you.

Military medics are typically Non combatants.

Every Marine is a Rifleman.

The Marine Corps is a Department of the Navy.

Does that Compute?

Seriously? Like I'm some sort of invalid?
I may not have my EMT-Basic yet, but I do have the better part of my B.S. in Biological Sciences complete.

 

[whitelcpl0311]

Something about this sentence does not compute...

Something about YOU to me doesn't compute. Most don't have the stones to straight up call a veteran crazy (you should probably have a very strong background before you do so). I personally don't give a damn if you're a paramedic. You can keep that career. I was posting my .02 cents. Did I deserve a passive aggressive jab? Hardly.

 

[DesertMedic66]

Something about YOU to me doesn't compute. Most don't have the stones to straight up call a veteran crazy (you should probably have a very strong background before you do so). I personally don't give a damn if you're a paramedic. You can keep that career. I was posting my .02 cents. Did I deserve a passive aggressive jab? Hardly.

 

[VFlutter]

Something about YOU to me doesn't compute. Most don't have the stones to straight up call a veteran crazy (you should probably have a very strong background before you do so). I personally don't give a damn if you're a paramedic. You can keep that career. I was posting my .02 cents. Did I deserve a passive aggressive jab? Hardly.

Woah, easy there tiger. I can see how his post could be taken a few different ways but I do not think he is straight up calling you crazy, veteran or not. It's the interent most people are passive aggressive or rude.

 

[Veneficus]

I was a Marine Corps Rifleman

There is another kind?

Sorry, couldn't resist Welcome to the site.

I'm paying CAREFUL attention in my EMT-B class as to not get that feeling of "Oh **** i have no idea what to do" ever again.

If you never get that "Oh ****, I have no idea what to do" from EMT class, you let me know, and I will enroll in that very class next.

I give you my loyal assurance, no matter how much you learn or how long you have been at this game, there will always be days and patients that make you feel that way.

The more you learn and know, the scarier it gets, usually because you know what the pt needs but you don't have it. You also know all the ways things could go possibly wrong.

 

[NomadicMedic]

Something about YOU to me doesn't compute. Most don't have the stones to straight up call a veteran crazy (you should probably have a very strong background before you do so). I personally don't give a damn if you're a paramedic. You can keep that career. I was posting my .02 cents. Did I deserve a passive aggressive jab? Hardly.

Hi all... I'm watching this thread...

One warning.

 

[NYMedic828]

...and when it comes to medicine and health care the EMT curriculum is severely lacking, therefore making EMTs lacking in education in the field they are practicing in.


I have a BS in biology, a MS in biomedical science and am halfway through my 3rd year of medical school. Would you like me to run a cardiac arrest on you or a paramedic? Who has more education?

Wo buddy your still just an EMT until you finish med school! :rofl:


(not serious)

 

[medictinysc]

...and when it comes to medicine and health care the EMT curriculum is severely lacking, therefore making EMTs lacking in education in the field they are practicing in.


I have a BS in biology, a MS in biomedical science and am halfway through my 3rd year of medical school. Would you like me to run a cardiac arrest on you or a paramedic? Who has more education? In an applied science field, you have to be able to apply the science, not just think great thoughts.




6 years in the Navy doing, what? A military physician and the guy who watches the front gate of the base both can have 6 years experience, but you didn't qualify the experience as anything besides a number. Furthermore, different patient populations.

First, In all fairness I have to give you the credit that your due. You sound like a wonderful student. Your very eloquent in your speech and writing techniques. Now on to the matter at hand, if I were in cardiac arrest whether it be V-FIB, pulse-less VTACH, VTACH with a pulse, or Assystole. For someone with practical knowledge on how to perform the tasks at hand. I don not need a doctor in my house, at my work, or in the ditch, I need a paramedic, EMT, first responder. Have you ever watched a doctor give orders during a cardiac arrest, they are totally oblivious to the AHA recommendations. They start spouting things out like "Give him an amp of dopamine" I actually saw a nurse say what dosage would you like? The doctor repeated "an amp". The nurse said it's weight based, the doctor said "Oh" I chimed up and said Dr ***** has us start out at 2 mcg/kg/min is that what you would like.... The doc looked at me and said fine. And walked out and left it to the common uneducated workers