Did I do everything I could have/did I do anything wrong?

[Tigger]

It's the EMT moral code. If you don't wish to abide by it then you ought to stop being an EMT. BTW, it's the AAOS that wrote it. Shall I provide a page number for you?

That is patently ridiculous. Where in that code, that was not written for EMS providers to begin with, mention putting the patient's life above your own life? Furthermore, if I am not on duty, how am I at all obligated to be held to some sort of BS "code" of standards? What I do off duty is no one's business but my own, and it has no bearing what so ever in the performance of my job as an EMT. Your morals and thoughts on ethics may differ from mine. That's life.

Taking a class that gives you the knowledge to render care at a level above (albeit slightly) of the layperson does not obligate one to care for everyone's injuries, in any capacity, while not acting in the capacity of an EMS provider.

That said, I'll stop at some accidents. If someone is waving at traffic for help or there is a vehicle with serious damage with no occupants readily visible, I will stop. I don't carry a jump kit or anything, I just want to make sure that 911 has been called and any immediate life threats have been controlled if possible. If I know that the area is served by BLS services and I can tell ALS may be needed, I'll let the local dispatch know when I call it in.

That all gets thrown out the window of course, if I don't think that I am reasonably safe from passing traffic.

 

[JPINFV]

So if writing the book, setting the standards and running a training institute isn't good enough then what is?

1. "A book" is not the same as "the book." Indefinite and definite articles, how do they work?

2. AAOS is not the only group involved with setting the standards. The standards, however, are rather laughable anyways.

3. So, again, you recognize that AMR is an authority on EMS operations because they run a much larger training institute?

 

[EMT-MA]

Just my two cents! If I was in a car accident I would be happy to have a concerned citizen stop and provide comfort if nothing else. Maybe it is just me but if an accident happened in front of me I would call 911 and pull over in a safe area and render whatever care within my scope of practice. Carry a jump kit in my car.

 

[bstone]

AMR is not a educational institution, they are a for-profit corporation that happens to run a few classes. They don't write the book, they don't have an educational standards institute. Please do not mistake me for respecting AMR's classes and authoritative.

AAOS is part of the group that defines EMS standards. AMR is not. If you disagree with the AAOS then you should find a source that does help to set standards that will support your position.

It goes like this:

1) Argument is made
2) Source is provided
3) Is source reliable? Yes or no. In this case, 'yes'.
4) Disagree is offered
5) Source is not yet provided. Please provide a reliable source for your position. I await your reply.

 

[Sasha]

i took no oath or code, so I am not bound to it.

 

[bstone]

Sasha, you accepted it when you decided to continue with your EMS education. You probably were tested on it, or were at least informed of it.

 

[MrBrown]

The book says we have a "moral and ethical" obligation to respond to emergencies that we happen to come across while off-duty. Legality isn't the only thing that is very important to EMTs. We're health care providers. Ethics and morality is just as important as legality, if not more important.

You are correct partially sir; ethics and morality are very important in medicine.

Can we call somebody with a 100 and something hour course from the stone age a "health care provider"? That is a debate for another topic and is irrelevant anyway for contextual purposes here and now

I think that sums it up quite well...moral and ethical...did we not become first responders/EMT's/paramedics etc to help our fellow man (or woman), or have we become so jaded we have forgotten?

You are also partially correct ... yes BUT does that mean Brown is going to stop on the highway at an accident with no high vis vest, no Police having shut down the road and no other resources? Hell no! Your personal safety is paramount

It's the EMT moral code. If you don't wish to abide by it then you ought to stop being an EMT. BTW, it's the AAOS that wrote it. Shall I provide a page number for you?

That book is not worth the paper it is printed on.

Again, Brown thinks anybody feels some sort of moral obligation to help if they see some dude flip their car, but come on, you have to consider your safety first and whether or not your stopping actually going to do anything.

 

[JPINFV]

AMR is not a educational institution,

1. AAOS is not an educational institution. They are a professional association.

2. NCTI, which is run by AMR, is an educational institution.

they are a for-profit corporation that happens to run a few classes. They don't write the book, they don't have an educational standards institute. Please do not mistake me for respecting AMR's classes and authoritative.

Again, AAOS wrote "a book," not "the book." Do you understand the difference between "a" and "the"?

AAOS is part of the group that defines EMS standards. AMR is not. If you disagree with the AAOS then you should find a source that does help to set standards that will support your position.

So, wait, didn't you just state that AAOS set the standard?

It goes like this:

1) Argument is made
2) Source is provided
3) Is source reliable? Yes or no. In this case, 'yes'.
4) Disagree is offered
5) Source is not yet provided. Please provide a reliable source for your position. I await your reply.

So if I publish a book, I'm all of a sudden an irrefutable standard, especially when it comes to morals and ethics? Furthermore, do you understand that ethics is more than just what is written by a single party in a single book? Ethics and morals is not the same as a debate based on facts, as neither are fact based disciplines. To say that the AAOS code of ethics is superior to all else is like saying that Christian ethics is superior to all other religious based ethics.

Alternately, are you completely unable to think for yourself?

 

[Sasha]

Uhm negative. What I was tested on was scene safety. No moral or ethical code to put my life at risk for others.

 

[bstone]

Brown, you do have to consider safety primarily. I entirely agree with you. If the scene is not safe then do not start care. Does doesn't stop you from waiting in a safe place until it does become safe, and calling 911 in the meantime.

 

[bstone]

JPINFV, I await for you to provide a reliable source that states there is no moral or ethical requirement for an off-duty EMT to render care when care is needed. I am ignoring everything else you say for the sake of civility.

 

[JPINFV]

You really don't understand how ethics and morals work.

 

[silver]

Morals are in the eye of the beholder. Just because someone says it is the ethical thing to do means nothing to me. In fact listening to what you are told is amoral.

 

[Sasha]

The lack of duty to act laws in most of the states is a glaring example that there is no moral or ethical code EMTs must adhere to.

 

[bstone]

Uhm negative. What I was tested on was scene safety. No moral or ethical code to put my life at risk for others.

I wonder where you understand that moral and ethical responsibility equates to putting your life at risk. I certainly never suggested that. If the scene is not safe then do not render care until such time that it is. Wait away from the scene, at a safe distance. If the scene is safe, however, and you fail to render care when it is necessary then you have violated the moral and ethical duty to respond.

 

[bstone]

The lack of duty to act laws in most of the states is a glaring example that there is no moral or ethical code EMTs must adhere to.

Legality≠ethical or moral obligation

 

[ffemt8978]

Morals are in the eye of the beholder. Just because someone says it is the ethical thing to do means nothing to me.

WINNNER!!!! The same applies to ethics.

 

[Sasha]

Your ethics and morals are not my own.

 

[JPINFV]

So, what is the punishment if I fail to abide by the AAOS "ethical code?"

 

[Sasha]

ten lashing with a wet noodle!