COVID VACCINE - The Megathread

[MackTheKnife]

Of all the groups that have a legitimate argument against a vaccine mandate, the military is by far and away the least persuasive. The military has every right to mandate it's members get vaccinated against a whole host of diseases and this is no different.

As a retired naval veteran (31 years), I have to agree. The military is not a democracy. As for waivers, the only one that should be granted is medical, i.e., allergies. I AGREE with Christians who refuse because of the origin of the vaccine, but I also agree with them being discharged as well. I was offered the anthrax vaccine prior to deployment and it was voluntary. I refused. A few years later it was mandatory. Thankfully I was in the states when it happened and didn't need it. However, if so required, I would have taken it.
"We're here to preserve democracy, not practice it". Gene Hackman, Crimson Tide

 

[ffemt8978]

Israel study: 4th vaccine shows limited results with omicron

An Israeli hospital says preliminary research indicates a fourth dose of the coronavirus vaccine provides only limited defense against the omicron variant that's raging around the world.

apnews.com

Preliminary data now suggests a 4th vaccine dose has limited effectiveness against omicron. So now what are we to do? Get monthly vaccine boosters with each dose tweaked to a different variant?

 

[EpiEMS]

I AGREE with Christians who refuse because of the origin of the vaccine

Fruit of a poisoned tree-type logic? That kind of breaks down when there's (1) no other option, (2) the vaccines contain no aborted cells, and (3) no new abortions are performed as a consequence.

Israel study: 4th vaccine shows limited results with omicron

An Israeli hospital says preliminary research indicates a fourth dose of the coronavirus vaccine provides only limited defense against the omicron variant that's raging around the world.

apnews.com

Preliminary data now suggests a 4th vaccine dose has limited effectiveness against omicron. So now what are we to do? Get monthly vaccine boosters with each dose tweaked to a different variant?

I don't see that as a likely proposal. More realistic would be additional vaccinations for new variants of high risk, no? It wouldn't be operationally feasible to do much more than that.

 

[ffemt8978]

I don't see that as a likely proposal. More realistic would be additional vaccinations for new variants of high risk, no? It wouldn't be operationally feasible to do much more than that.

For arguments sake then, wouldn't that be a sign we need to rethink our response to this pandemic? It isn't going anywhere, we can't cure it, and now our vaccines may be less effective against it.

 

[ffemt8978]

Fruit of a poisoned tree-type logic? That kind of breaks down when there's (1) no other option, (2) the vaccines contain no aborted cells, and (3) no new abortions are performed as a consequence.

If it is the fruit of the poisonous tree logic, then the fact there is no other option has nothing to do with it. It is still the fruit of the poisonous tree.

The vaccines do not contain aborted cells or caused abortions to be performed, but they were developed and tested using stem cell research. Yes, those cells were lab grown, but a truly held religious belief about stem cells does not differentiate between lab and natural grown. They are still stem cells.

 

[mgr22]

If it is the fruit of the poisonous tree logic, then the fact there is no other option has nothing to do with it. It is still the fruit of the poisonous tree.

The vaccines do not contain aborted cells or caused abnorttions to be performed, but they were developed and tested using stem cell research. Yes, those cells were lab grown, but a truly held religious belief about stem cells does not differentiate between lab and natural grown. They are still stem cells.

Maybe I was absent the day they covered this in Sunday school, but why would lab-grown cells be a religious issue?

 

[ffemt8978]

Maybe I was absent the day they covered this in Sunday school, but why would lab-grown cells be a religious issue?

Wouldn't that depend upon the person who has the religious belief? I'm not saying I agree with the belief, but I am willing to accept that some people hold it as part of their religion. So we can't simply dismiss away their concerns simply because we don't agree with them.

 

[mgr22]

Wouldn't that depend upon the person who has the religious belief? I'm not saying I agree with the belief, but I am willing to accept that some people hold it as part of their religion. So we can't simply dismiss away their concerns simply because we don't agree with them.

Yes, people can believe anything, but that doesn't mean all beliefs are religious in nature.

I'm looking for clarification. I've never heard of lab-grown cells being an issue. If it is, perhaps someone will enlighten me. If it isn't, perhaps we can strike one reason for not getting vaccinated off the list.

 

[EpiEMS]

For arguments sake then, wouldn't that be a sign we need to rethink our response to this pandemic? It isn't going anywhere, we can't cure it, and now our vaccines may be less effective against it.

We vaccinate for influenza annually, so the difference here is just in degree not in kind, am I wrong? I'm not opposed to a rethink, but removing the vaccination and masking push seems to impose more cost than benefit.

If it is the fruit of the poisonous tree logic, then the fact there is no other option has nothing to do with it. It is still the fruit of the poisonous tree.

The vaccines do not contain aborted cells or caused abortions to be performed, but they were developed and tested using stem cell research. Yes, those cells were lab grown, but a truly held religious belief about stem cells does not differentiate between lab and natural grown. They are still stem cells.

In law, that would make sense, but not necessarily so here. If no incremental harm is caused, then the origins should be acknowledged and we move on -- indeed, the Vatican (for one) has come to this conclusion:

"[A]ll vaccinations recognized as clinically safe and effective can be used in good conscience with the certain knowledge that the use of such vaccines does not constitute formal cooperation with the abortion from which the cells used in production of the vaccines derive."

I'm looking for clarification. I've never heard of lab-grown cells being an issue. If it is, perhaps someone will enlighten me. If it isn't, perhaps we can strike one reason for not getting vaccinated off the list.

There's some discussion in the anti-abortion community that fetal stem cells were in mRNA research. However, neither the Pfizer nor Moderna development (just some testing) required stem cells (J&J, interestingly, did). Not something that concerns me, but certainly might concern some people with strong preferences against abortion.

 

[Summit]

There are boosters under testing that specifically target for Omicron. Those should be given first to high risk exposure (HCW) and high risk severe illness individuals when they come out, and offered as a booster to the public, but this likely won't be available until after March and by then the unbelievably fast moving Omicron wave is likely, hopefully, mostly over.

Otherwise, what do we rethink with our handling of the Pandemic? Nobody has been trying to stop it. All recent interventions are aimed at maintaining the healthcare system and the economy by ensuring hospitals aren't overwhelmed and workplaces keep functioning during the Omicron surge.

There's no reason to think that Omicron patients will be reinfected with Omicron in the short term nor with a notable severe disease risk. So this wave will pass (by which I mean infect most people quickly) and then COVID will be considered endemic, not pandemic, barring the appearance of the Megatron variant in which case we'll need the Optimus Prime vaccine booster.

 

[GMCmedic]

Test is still pending but if what I just had wasn't Rona then I don't want it.

Started Tuesday with a weird tickle in my sinuses, the kind that tells you you're getting sick. Woke up Wednesday with the worst headache I've ever had a sever aches all over. I pretty much slept all day.

Woke up yesterday with a headache, sore throat, and a cough, got tested around noon. Headache went away around 4.

Woke up today with a runny nose and a cough. Wednesday was absolute hell.

2 doses of pfizer completed January of 2021. I have not had my flu shot yet this year because frankly I've just been lazy but as soon as I'm cleared back to work I'm getting one. I didn't have the foresight to do a combined test.

 

[Aprz]

Test is still pending but if what I just had wasn't Rona then I don't want it.

Started Tuesday with a weird tickle in my sinuses, the kind that tells you you're getting sick. Woke up Wednesday with the worst headache I've ever had a sever aches all over. I pretty much slept all day.

Woke up yesterday with a headache, sore throat, and a cough, got tested around noon. Headache went away around 4.

Woke up today with a runny nose and a cough. Wednesday was absolute hell.

2 doses of pfizer completed January of 2021. I have not had my flu shot yet this year because frankly I've just been lazy but as soon as I'm cleared back to work I'm getting one. I didn't have the foresight to do a combined test.

Have a speedy recovery whatever it is.

 

[GMCmedic]

Have a speedy recovery whatever it is.

Thanks. It was the Rona. Body aches lasted a day, headache for 2. All I have now is a runny nose.

 

[ffemt8978]

And now we're up to the point Pfizer is recommending a 4th shot for the BA2 variant.

Fourth shot “is necessary” Pfizer CEO says as experts monitor BA.2

Experts warn of potential for bump in cases amid relaxed measures and rise in BA.2.

arstechnica.com

 

[ffemt8978]

COVID-19 Vaccination—Becoming Part of the New Normal

In this Viewpoint, authors from the FDA discuss how COVID-19 vaccination is an integral part of establishing a new normal, now that SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, will likely circulate worldwide for the foreseeable future.

jamanetwork.com

Looks like covud boosters are now going to become an annual thing.

 

[akflightmedic]

I have no issue...shoot me up annually. Find a way to mix it with my flu shot! LOL

 

[CCCSD]

I have no issue...shoot me up annually. Find a way to mix it with my flu shot! LOL

No kidding!

 

[Summit]

Yep, and make it multi-valent (effective against multiple variants) like the flu shot (Moderna has this in testing)

 

[ffemt8978]

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Limits Use of Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine to Certain Individuals

The FDA has limited the authorized use of the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine to individuals 18 older for whom other available COVID-19 vaccines are not accessible or clinically appropriate, and to individuals 18 and older who elect to receive it because they would otherwise not receive a COVID-19 vaccine.

www.fda.gov

Turns out there may have been cause for worry

 

[E tank]

Love the way they keep calling it a 'vaccine'....