Better check your right to a safe work place laws before making any threats. <_< If a person fears for his/her safety..the gun may have to be secured. All it takes is to be shot at on duty just once to understand. Ever work Detroit?
Concealed Carry
- Thread starter medichopeful
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Better check your right to a safe work place laws before making any threats. <_< If a person fears for his/her safety..the gun may have to be secured. All it takes is to be shot at on duty just once to understand. Ever work Detroit?
thatJeffguy
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A person can rationally demonstrate they were fearing their safety ("The guy aimed a loaded sidearm at me") and be covered. Saying "I saw someone obeying the law and was terrified" probably wouldn't cover it. And I wouldn't step into Detroit if I had a platoon of Marine infantrymen ;-) I respect those that have to work in such hell holes.
I believe you are mistaken in the work place.
thatJeffguy
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I've been wrong before
Of course,the right to safety laws do have limits. I couldn't say "I won't work with Achmed because he's probably got a suicide-bomb vest on, that's unsafe!" But, I'm unaware of any laws specifically.
I've always been more concerned with ethics than laws, per se. If I let someone lie on the ground and die because they chose to obey their laws and carry a sidearm that day, I'd be unable to live with myself. Obviously, if the scene is truely UNSAFE, I'm outta there like a boner in sweatpants!
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medichopeful
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JPINFV
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firecoins
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Scene safety is my #1 priority. My safety comes before that of the patient. I won't know its legal or your intentions. I am not obligated to risk my life to treat you. If you and your gun are not a threat and we can establish that pretty quickly, you will get treated pretty quickly. If we can do this without LEOs, we will. If not, you will just have to wait 2 minutes for LEOs to come. So its clearly situational.
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daedalus
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Sadly, you can be as upset as you want but it will not get you anywhere. You do not get to act however you want and expect others to bend to your will. You may have a right to buy and smoke cigarettes, but if you start smoking them in my ambulance you are now endangering my safety and you will be stopped. Likewise, if you have a gun on your person and your are not an LEO, I will not treat you until the gun is secure. What do I mean by secure? In a lock box in your car/home or with the police department. And like I said before, since it is my company policy not to enter a scene with loose firearms, I will get the backing of my management and medical director.
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scottyb
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I fail to recall where the right to smoke is located in the constitution or any of it's amendments. You have a company policy and unfortunately you would probably win if brought to court in most states because we are content with losing our rights to make people feel "secure". I can see that there are more people here that have drank the "guns are bad and dangerous" punch and a dying concealed carry permit holder does not deserve a chance to live until they have their gun taken away. Unless they are a LEO, cause then they are infallible.
LOL...Detroit is only bad sometimes but, the potential is definately present and one must always be on high alert.
Ecorse is far scarier than the "Big D". More likely to fall through a rotted porch than get shot at in Detroit whereas the few times I've run call in Ecorse, we had an escort to make sure we got out without being high-jacked by drug seekers.
BLSBoy
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While I fully support CCW, and carry myself, no weapons in the ambulance.
Your constitutional rights do not extend to the ambulance, or even outside of it.
I don't know the pt. I don't know their intentions. Have the same mentality that LEOs have.... Be nice to everyone but have a plan to kill them. In our case, distract, and extract.
As for those who have the mentality of ZOMG a weapun.... runzzz!!!
Learn tact, lean to make a weapon safe, and learn body language. Still request LEOs, but don't run cause there is a weapon.
Your constitutional rights do not extend to the ambulance, or even outside of it.
I don't know the pt. I don't know their intentions. Have the same mentality that LEOs have.... Be nice to everyone but have a plan to kill them. In our case, distract, and extract.
As for those who have the mentality of ZOMG a weapun.... runzzz!!!
Learn tact, lean to make a weapon safe, and learn body language. Still request LEOs, but don't run cause there is a weapon.
thatJeffguy
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K buddy, we're talking about apple sand oranges here.
HAVING a gun is analogous to HAVING cigarettes.
Comparing HAVING a gun with SMOKING is not correc.
If someone HAS a gun on their person, secured, we're all good. Same as if they have cigarettes, or a pocket knife. When that object is misused, problems arise.
How is a holstered sidearm "loose"?
How do you know that the individual with the sidearm isn't a LEO?
thatJeffguy
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Heh, I'm sorry here and I don't mean to be rude, but are you saying that downtown Detroit, which is second or third in the nation for per capita firearms violence, can only be bad "sometime"?
And thats why I'd like at least the option to defend myself...
thatJeffguy
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Are you seriously saying that we have NO Constitutional rights in an ambulance? Want to clarify that statement?
And how would that kill them?
As for those who have the mentality of ZOMG a weapun.... runzzz!!!
Learn tact, lean to make a weapon safe, and learn body language. Still request LEOs, but don't run cause there is a weapon.[/QUOTE]
BLSBoy
makes good girls go bad
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We need to be nice to everyone, but have a plan to distract them (throw jump bag, chair, etc) at them, and escape from the situation.
Yes, Detroit is a great city and generally is a decent place to work. Poverty and blight is a bigger risk for EMS workers than violence. Falling through a porch is a part of EMS field training...lol ^_^
Ecorse is a neighboring suburb of Detroit. NO..you don't have a right to arm yourself...we get enough criminals slingin guns around here as it is. Don't need some urban cowboy shootin his foot off becasue he's half as skilled as the thugs are and half as street smart. At least the thugs usually only kill each other.
scottyb
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I do have the right to arm myself. It is called the second amendment. You saying that, to me, is the same as me telling you don't have a right to your religion or to not have to incriminate yourself. We could debate the second amendment all day, but in plain English, it says "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
JPINFV
Gadfly
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Oh, please. "The people" as referenced in amendments first, fourth, ninth, and tenth amendments are obviously a different kind of people than what is referenced in the second amendment.
/preemptive sarcastic argument.
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thatJeffguy
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Well come on JPINFV, it's not as if the Federal Code specifically mentions what the "militia" is!
Title 10 Subtitle A PART I Chapter 13 § 311. Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
Er.... wait, I guess it does.
Looks like all of us 17+yo men are members of the militia. I'd say that's almost a REQUIREMENT to carry a sidearm!
JPINFV
Gadfly
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the second amendment predates by a large margin that part of USC.
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