This.
No federal law against it. But the "off-limit" places varies widely among individual states so you'll have to check state law.
Arming EMT's and Paramedics
- Thread starter DWemt28
- Start date
This.
No federal law against it. But the "off-limit" places varies widely among individual states so you'll have to check state law.
HotelCo
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The gentlemen carrying is not a LEO.
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nwhitney
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Depends on the hospital. Private hospitals and other private businesses can ban firearms from their premise if they wish. Federal buildings prohibit firearms regardless of permits. Maybe if there are any federal hospitals such as military hospitals.
emt seeking first job
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yes and no, honestly, unsure
It is not that far out there.
EMS in Town of Greenburgh, NY (suburb of nyc) is a function of the Town of Greenburgh Police.
http://www.greenburghny.com/cit-e-access/webpage.cfm?TID=10&TPID=2853
In NYC I have mixed feelings.
Possibly for a supervisor.
In NYC, 20 years ago, NYPD was dispatched to injured calls. Now they are not.
If EMS were given firearms, there would have to be quite a bit more training, supervison and standards of conduct.
They should not going looking to insert themselves in a situation and if they encounter it they should call in a tactical unit. Just as a beat cop or radio patrol unit would.
In some ways, having the option if ambushed or cornored would be beneficial.
It would also be a deterent.
I do think EMTs and Paramedics should be given some level of law enforcement status to be able to make an arrest if necessary and so that if someone assaults an EMT or Paramedic it is always a felony. Not every area has such a law.
I also think the protocols should be modified to allow EMS to apply restraints for certain patients.
REMEMBER, even an actual police officer if he or she encounters and active shooting situation, they retreat and take cover / concealment and await a tactical unit.
You can always make the argument why anyone should not be armed, police in the UK, USA University, Airport, Transit, Park or Bridge/Tunnel Police.
As I said, they would have to ramp up the standards, though.
It is not that far out there.
EMS in Town of Greenburgh, NY (suburb of nyc) is a function of the Town of Greenburgh Police.
http://www.greenburghny.com/cit-e-access/webpage.cfm?TID=10&TPID=2853
In NYC I have mixed feelings.
Possibly for a supervisor.
In NYC, 20 years ago, NYPD was dispatched to injured calls. Now they are not.
If EMS were given firearms, there would have to be quite a bit more training, supervison and standards of conduct.
They should not going looking to insert themselves in a situation and if they encounter it they should call in a tactical unit. Just as a beat cop or radio patrol unit would.
In some ways, having the option if ambushed or cornored would be beneficial.
It would also be a deterent.
I do think EMTs and Paramedics should be given some level of law enforcement status to be able to make an arrest if necessary and so that if someone assaults an EMT or Paramedic it is always a felony. Not every area has such a law.
I also think the protocols should be modified to allow EMS to apply restraints for certain patients.
REMEMBER, even an actual police officer if he or she encounters and active shooting situation, they retreat and take cover / concealment and await a tactical unit.
You can always make the argument why anyone should not be armed, police in the UK, USA University, Airport, Transit, Park or Bridge/Tunnel Police.
As I said, they would have to ramp up the standards, though.
nwhitney
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The gentlemen carrying is not a LEO.
Right but he isn't carrying concealed.
emt seeking first job
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In every hospital I see, they make everyone LEO or not stow a weapon before going to a secure psych unit. Not sure if that is a law or just a common practice.
nwhitney
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Gets kinda tricky with private ambulance companies.
HotelCo
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Nope. Concealed carry in a hospital is, in Michigan, illegal (for now), without being excempt from the zones by way of a few avenues. One way is to become a police reserve officer, and you're set. (100 hour-ish course).
Michigan will soon wise up, and realize that the PFZ is irrational because I can already carry a firearm in there.... but we're getting off topic.
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ShotMedic
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I could definitely see why people would want to protect themselves, just like you would do at your own private residence, but at the same time there is really nothing to personally protect at the station or at work I can see. If they want the Narcs, ambulance, or radios they can have it! I'm not gonna stop them. Now would it be nice to have a back up plan (Sig Sauer acp) in case they were to try anything a little more daring? of course.
Just carrying a gun does not mean you automatically jump into situations you normally wouldn't. The same arguments are used against private citizens who choose to carry concealed/open.... that towns would turn into a wild west shoot out, you would be shot with your own weapon, hoards of armed citizens would accidentally shoot each other while trying to stop crimes, and none of these really came true.
This really isn't a thread about 2A issues or private citizen concealed carry, but just wanted to point out that non-LEO's are more than capable of carrying concealed in a responsible and safe manner. To argue that this would be inherently unsafe for medics to carry is just wrong in my opinion.
The issue will always be though that I'm sure private amb companies probably have company rules prohibiting employees from carrying. So even if not illegal then you're probably risking your job.
This really isn't a thread about 2A issues or private citizen concealed carry, but just wanted to point out that non-LEO's are more than capable of carrying concealed in a responsible and safe manner. To argue that this would be inherently unsafe for medics to carry is just wrong in my opinion.
The issue will always be though that I'm sure private amb companies probably have company rules prohibiting employees from carrying. So even if not illegal then you're probably risking your job.
crazycajun
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Federal Law prohibits firearms in any building containing federal employees or agents for the Federal Government. If the hospital accepts Medicare they are required to have a billing specialist acting as an agent for the Federal Dept. of HHS. Although this is rarely enforced it is a law. Louisiana vs. Cecil 1998. Decision to prosecute upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court after Mr. Cecil entered a hospital with a firearm (9mm pistol) and refused to leave. I taught CWP for 9 years. I am also an FFL dealer. I am a huge open carry supporter however I have never seen the need for an EMT or Medic to carry on the job. I think it is a really bad idea.
BTW Louisiana has the most relaxed gun laws in the country IMO.
medichopeful
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In regards to the bold part, why? We are there as healthcare providers, not for law enforcement. Think of this: you have a patient who has been using illegal drugs. You ask them what they've been using, and they tell you to screw off. Why? They know you can arrest them. What happens? They don't get the care they need.
People don't like admitting to things when they know they can get arrested or in trouble for it. I've asked police officers and institutional security officers to step out of the room when assessing a patient. Why? The officer can get that person into trouble if they admit to something. Why should we make it so the people there to help them can do the same?
As far as the second part goes (the non-bold part), I'm all for that. THAT is reasonable, the other thing is not.
I don't have a major problem with EMS personnel assisting PD restrain somebody if there's a reason to, like they're being violent or they're posing a risk to themselves or others, as long as the EMT/Paramedic isn't in major danger. But I do NOT think EMS should be arresting people. Restraining? At times, yes. Arresting? Hell no!
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ClarkEMS
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I think we need to look at this as a specific situation. If the patient can cause harm to us, like a prisoner, then why not have an armed guard with the patient restrained...in fact, I think we should have 2 armed guards in that situation with a following vehicle. The problem this presents, though, is that situation of a prisoner or person in custody grabbing hold of the guard's weapon. Ambulances are relatively small, so this creates an opportunity for a dangerous patient to grab hold of a weapon.
On another note, going to back to our previous statements about armed EMTs, we should keep in mind that a patient could easily grab our firearm and use it against us. No matter what, we are always going to be in danger, but having an armed guard with us in special situations could be a benefit as they are more qualified to handle these dangerous patients than we are.
Here is another question to think about, should prisons have separate ambulances staffed with medical and protective personnel?
samiam
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Can you please cite.. from what I know It is only in a federal facility which is defined as "1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties."
A hospital does not really fall under this... owned or leased
Thanks
Cite
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 930
§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
HotelCo
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Do you have a link to Louisiana vs. Cecil? I can't find it.
Also, what law are you referring to that bars firearms in buildings containing federal employees? That would mean a supermarket is off limits if an agent was in there, or any other building.
I call BS.
JPINFV
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That presumes that the billing staff is housed in the same building as clinical operations.
JPINFV
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Rare, and you're already screwed if that happens.
...alternatively, dial 911 and ask for an ambulance as a firearms delivery service.
If only there was some way to amend the law. Oh, wait...
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEJL2Uuv-oQ[/YOUTUBE]
Like which patients?
Not since Columbine. Active shooter means you advance towards the shooter, ignoring any casualties, with how many, or few, people you have on scene.
HotelCo
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How would that be any different than calling 911 for PD, and taking their gun?
Or... I could just walk down the road a few miles, and pay the shady guy on the street corner $30 for a nice shiny pistol.
The second seems the easier choice to me. You have the firearm either way, but in the second scenario, you needn't worry about attracting attention to yourself.
JPINFV
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Would you rather pick a fight with the average police officer or the average paramedic?
True.
mycrofft
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From another thread, posted by "IAems"
http://www.paramedicduquebec.org/doc...Fatalities.pdf
Over five years (1992-1997), nine U.S. EMS workers died due to assault, including all nurses, aides, attendants/orderlies, physician assistants, and technologists/technicicans likely to be EMS workers, an average of two (well, 1.8) annually. This does not include fierfighters without a specific designator as an EMS worker, nor law enforcement. It does not diffferentiate between on the job assaults by patients, co-workers, or others. It does potentially include armed EMS, however few those are, actually or officially. It also does not include volunteers.
My dime is on the lilttle square that says pizza delivery guys nationwide have a higher per-capita ratio, and surely some of them do go armed.
http://www.paramedicduquebec.org/doc...Fatalities.pdf
Over five years (1992-1997), nine U.S. EMS workers died due to assault, including all nurses, aides, attendants/orderlies, physician assistants, and technologists/technicicans likely to be EMS workers, an average of two (well, 1.8) annually. This does not include fierfighters without a specific designator as an EMS worker, nor law enforcement. It does not diffferentiate between on the job assaults by patients, co-workers, or others. It does potentially include armed EMS, however few those are, actually or officially. It also does not include volunteers.
My dime is on the lilttle square that says pizza delivery guys nationwide have a higher per-capita ratio, and surely some of them do go armed.