Arming EMT's and Paramedics

[HotelCo]

Would you rather pick a fight with the average police officer or the average paramedic?

Why would they fight either? Shoot them when they arrive on scene, and take the pistol. Cops, or paramedics... a shot to the head will suck either way.

 

[mycrofft]

Boys, boys..

Her's a poll we had about our participants and firearms, along with three pages of commentary:
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=14014

I notice extremely few females in the conversation.

 

[DWemt28]

Any opinions on less lethal force? I thought that was an interesting concept too.

 

[RoxyGurL]

I didn't read this entire thread...it's a bit lengthy. Excuse me if I am repeating myself. Disclaimer: I am a newly certified EMT-IV

We took an oath to care for people...we help people....we will be dealing with people on the worst day of their lives more than likely. Our position requires trust to do our job correctly. How can someone fully trust a medic or EMT if they are carrying a sidearm? First do no harm. If they see a sidearm they will become anxious, etc...

Sure...I have a carry permit. I carry it on my own time. I totally believe in the right to bear arms.

Also....all it takes is one hypoglycemic or psych patient to take your weapon and turn it on you. Plus, I would not want that responsibility.

 

[DrParasite]

We took an oath to care for people...we help people....we will be dealing with people on the worst day of their lives more than likely. Our position requires trust to do our job correctly. How can someone fully trust a medic or EMT if they are carrying a sidearm? First do no harm. If they see a sidearm they will become anxious, etc...

ummm don't cops take a similar oath? they help save more lives than EMS does on a regular basis, and that's why people want to become cops, not EMS workers. I don't see people in need not trusting cops because of a sidearm. yes, the criminals might not trust the cops, but the majority of the public will still call for a cop when they need a cop's assistance.

Sure...I have a carry permit. I carry it on my own time. I totally believe in the right to bear arms.

so you will carry a gun on you when you go to the mall, go shopping, and hang out with the family, but don't think you should have a gun on you with you when you respond to a housing project full of crackheads and drug deals? or a report of a person stabbed or shot? or even better, when you respond to a cardiac arrest, and the family says "if you don't save momma's life, we are going to kill you?"

Also....all it takes is one hypoglycemic or psych patient to take your weapon and turn it on you.

couldn't the same argument be give for a law enforcement officer in the back of an ambulance with a psych patient? or one who is assisting you in dealing with a hypoglycemic combative patient?

 

[crazycajun]

ummm don't cops take a similar oath? they help save more lives than EMS does on a regular basis, and that's why people want to become cops, not EMS workers. I don't see people in need not trusting cops because of a sidearm. yes, the criminals might not trust the cops, but the majority of the public will still call for a cop when they need a cop's assistance.
so you will carry a gun on you when you go to the mall, go shopping, and hang out with the family, but don't think you should have a gun on you with you when you respond to a housing project full of crackheads and drug deals? or a report of a person stabbed or shot? or even better, when you respond to a cardiac arrest, and the family says "if you don't save momma's life, we are going to kill you?"
couldn't the same argument be give for a law enforcement officer in the back of an ambulance with a psych patient? or one who is assisting you in dealing with a hypoglycemic combative patient?

Cops take an oath to protect the community by enforcing laws. We take an oath to provide medical care in a pre-hospital setting. Big difference.

Please explain how cops actually SAVE more lives than EMS workers.

If your theory was correct then the applicants for law enforcement would be on the incline not the decline. However, EMS has seen a rapid incline in applications and a steady 9% job growth rate over the past several years. EMS also has an anticipated 19% growth rate in the next 2 years making it the fastest and largest growing job opportunity in the U.S.

Many people that are not criminals are still intimidated by the police. Most will tell you it is the GUN and attitude they fear the most.

I also have a CWP and carry while off duty. I enter into housing projects everyday I work, see crackheads and drug dealers on a regular basis and transport more GSW and Stabbings than most on this site. I am a white guy and have never had a problem. Furthermore if you arrive on a cardiac arrest and are threatened, LOAD AND GO. Call dispatch while in route and have them notify police and let THEM DO THEIR JOB.

As far as weapons on our units. No One is allowed to have a loaded weapon in the back of our units period. We have a safe locker at the back door under the bench and all Law enforcement are required to either put it in there or follow in their unit. We don't want some idiot fighting for a gun endangering everyone in the back of our units.

If you feel the need and are that scared maybe it is time to find a different company to work for. I have been in the middle of fights, rolled up on scene to find drugs and guns laying around and even wanted criminals. I just do my job because those things don't matter unless they are intended to harm me.

We got a call a while back for a GSW. We arrived on scene before police. It happened to be a gang member. Got out of the unit and was told "DO SOMETHING". After a quick assessment I told the 4 young men standing there that there was nothing I could do. The hole in his chest was the size of my fist and the heart was destroyed. I explained that without a heart it was impossible to revive him. Were they mad? Of Course. Were they screaming and yelling? Pissed Off? Of course. Did they take it out on me? Nope. After the coroner arrived and we were loading to leave 2 of the guys came up and thanked my partner and I for covering their friend with a sheet instead of just leaving him bleeding in the street for everyone to see. I seen one of those guys this evening at a local store. He came up, shook my hand and told me to let him know if I needed anything. Try being a cop and have that same outcome.

 

[bigbaldguy]

Here's my idea. All medics wear explosive vests that have sensors implanted in our hearts. If our hearts stop vest goes off and takes out everything in a 3 block radius. Guaranteed protection. Oh sure the occasional station might be taken out by some old codger that drops from an MI at work but other than that it's full proof.

 

[subliminal1284]

No way in hell, there are a plethora of police officers out there who cant even handle a gun properly, or use good judgement when to use it and they have had extensive training. If you really feel the need to protect yourself carry a can of pepper spray and or some kubatons in your cargo pocket.

 

[freebyrd]

So I was reading an article the other day about EMTs and paramedics possibly being armed one of these days. Just out of curiosity I want to get some opinions on the issue from some fellow users :huh:

bad idea from my point of view.
keep in mind i am a huge gun enthusiast and former competition shooter in i.d.p.a
i think it sends the wrong message
we already have overarmed overly aggressive p.d. running around all over the place,
let them do what they are paid to do i'll stay uphill and upwind until the smoke clears B)

 

[freebyrd]

Federal Law prohibits firearms in any building containing federal employees or agents for the Federal Government. If the hospital accepts Medicare they are required to have a billing specialist acting as an agent for the Federal Dept. of HHS. Although this is rarely enforced it is a law. Louisiana vs. Cecil 1998. Decision to prosecute upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court after Mr. Cecil entered a hospital with a firearm (9mm pistol) and refused to leave. I taught CWP for 9 years. I am also an FFL dealer. I am a huge open carry supporter however I have never seen the need for an EMT or Medic to carry on the job. I think it is a really bad idea.

BTW Louisiana has the most relaxed gun laws in the country IMO.

wow! i am surprised you can say that after katrina, where officials came right out and said you can't have guns!
there are even videos where police are actively disarming your citizens!
i know of one elderly lady who was disarmed on video by stinking california highway patrol that were imported just for such a scenario

it all go's back to 29 palms no matter how great you think your gun laws are,given the right set of circumstances your "paid representatives" will issue emergency edicts and then send in foreign thugs to enforce an unlawful order.

the whole conduct is shameful, but it happened none the less even in gun friendly Louisiana.
Texas would fare no better when push comes to shove, unless you have a group of gun owners that really believe in from my cold dead hands.

sadly for the most part thats just a slogan on a t-shirt imho

 

[crazycajun]

wow! i am surprised you can say that after Katrina, where officials came right out and said you can't have guns!
there are even videos where police are actively disarming your citizens!
i know of one elderly lady who was disarmed on video by stinking California highway patrol that were imported just for such a scenario

it all go's back to 29 palms no matter how great you think your gun laws are,given the right set of circumstances your "paid representatives" will issue emergency edicts and then send in foreign thugs to enforce an unlawful order.

the whole conduct is shameful, but it happened none the less even in gun friendly Louisiana.
Texas would fare no better when push comes to shove, unless you have a group of gun owners that really believe in from my cold dead hands.

sadly for the most part thats just a slogan on a t-shirt IMHO

Not sure where the video's are located but that is something I never heard about. I know people that went to shelters were not allowed to have firearms and some resisted. However I felt that was in the best interest of everyone as there were many children in shelters that were wide open areas with no way to secure a weapon. In fact, homeowners in New Orleans were encouraged to arm themselves to protect their property and themselves.

 

[CANMAN]

Crazycajun, while I don't doubt that there are some hardened areas in South Carolina the incident you described leaves me to question A: how long you have been in EMS and B: how to you "arrive" on the scene of a shooting prior to P.D. arrival and decide to enter the scene?? Those kind of actions can and will get you killed one day and for someone who appears to be very educated about firearms, laws, etc I question why you even put yourself in said situation.

The described call could have gone very different if the so called "gangsters" decided they didn't like your answer of "we can't do anything for him" and pulled out their gun and shot you, without the protection of LE on scene. Sometimes no amount of smooth talking will get you out of a bad situation. All it takes is to get into a situation one time, with someone who has a short fuse, no brains, or no worries and the outcome could have been very different. In Baltimore the gangsters normally deliver on their threats.....

 

[vamike]

Doesn't a knife count as being a weapon? How many of us carry one or several? I carry at least two. One readily seen. One not. Probably a neck knife which is readily available and not very evident.

 

[crazycajun]

Crazycajun, while I don't doubt that there are some hardened areas in South Carolina the incident you described leaves me to question A: how long you have been in EMS and B: how to you "arrive" on the scene of a shooting prior to P.D. arrival and decide to enter the scene?? Those kind of actions can and will get you killed one day and for someone who appears to be very educated about firearms, laws, etc I question why you even put yourself in said situation.

The described call could have gone very different if the so called "gangsters" decided they didn't like your answer of "we can't do anything for him" and pulled out their gun and shot you, without the protection of LE on scene. Sometimes no amount of smooth talking will get you out of a bad situation. All it takes is to get into a situation one time, with someone who has a short fuse, no brains, or no worries and the outcome could have been very different. In Baltimore the gangsters normally deliver on their threats.....

I have been in EMS since the 80's. I started in Downtown New Orleans La. I have been in more situations than you can imagine. We rolled up on scene as we have done many times in the past with no LE. Not a big deal as the gangsters know we are their only life line and the druggies know we are their only fix. The gangs here are Bloods and Crips. They have been here long before I arrived. I have also worked the same district for close to three years. My partner and I make a point to walk the neighborhoods when we get a chance. We stop and speak to just about anyone you could imagine and most people know us by first name. Even though we do not live in our district we make it a point to shop and eat there every chance we get. We work all of the street festivals we can and attend every school function we can. We often get requested by inmates at the local jails if they need transport to the hospital because they know they can trust us. We are also requested by many LEOS because they know how well we are liked in the area. I learned a long time ago from a very wise man. (My Father) Treat everyone as you would want to be treated. You also mention that my actions will get me killed one day and you may be correct. However, I could get killed walking to my mailbox. I strongly believe when it is your time it is just that. Your Time. That decision has been made and I cannot alter it so I will give all that I can to this job. I will help everyone I can and I will respect everyone I come across no matter their situation. I will hold someones hand or give them a shoulder to cry on if needed. I will listen to someone vent and I will laugh at someones corny joke. This job is not just about medicine it is about RESPECT. It is about CARING. And it is about UNDERSTANDING. Many people either forget this or never learn it. Many never take the time to meet the very people they are there to help. Many look down on those in hard times or those that have chosen the wrong path in life. I look at those same people and know that I am truly blessed to be able to help them.

 

[freebyrd]

Not sure where the video's are located but that is something I never heard about. I know people that went to shelters were not allowed to have firearms and some resisted. However I felt that was in the best interest of everyone as there were many children in shelters that were wide open areas with no way to secure a weapon. In fact, homeowners in New Orleans were encouraged to arm themselves to protect their property and themselves.

here you go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1Qx0cTze0M

 

[crazycajun]

here you go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1Qx0cTze0M

I remember that story on the news. A big part of the story was left out. What you didn't see was the woman threatening to shoot the officers if they did not leave. It was a mandatory evacuation until water services could be restored. Once restored residents were allowed to return home in most areas. No firearms were allowed at shelters which made sense. Another thing not shown is the woman had a long history of Mental Illness. Not trying to prove you wrong but that is the only story I can think of and even called a friend that works with Orleans Parish and he couldn't remember any others either.

 

[bigbaldguy]

I remember that story on the news. A big part of the story was left out. What you didn't see was the woman threatening to shoot the officers if they did not leave. It was a mandatory evacuation until water services could be restored. Once restored residents were allowed to return home in most areas. No firearms were allowed at shelters which made sense. Another thing not shown is the woman had a long history of Mental Illness. Not trying to prove you wrong but that is the only story I can think of and even called a friend that works with Orleans Parish and he couldn't remember any others either.

Yeah I remember that on the news. The woman didn't want to leave and the officers were under orders to move her. I don't remember the mental illness part. It was a bad situation all around. Katrina was a disaster in more ways than one.

 

[crazycajun]

Yeah I remember that on the news. The woman didn't want to leave and the officers were under orders to move her. I don't remember the mental illness part. It was a bad situation all around. Katrina was a disaster in more ways than one.

Mental Illness came out a few days later. You are correct. Katrina sucked the life out of many.

 

[Aerin-Sol]

Her's a poll we had about our participants and firearms, along with three pages of commentary:
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=14014

I notice extremely few females in the conversation.

I'll be the token female and state that I have no desire to have a gun on duty. I would not use it, I would not want to explain to patients why I was carrying around a deadly weapon, I would not want it in my house, and I would not want the responsibility.

I really hope this is not going to turn into "but you are a woman so you are tiny, weak, and helpless, and the world is full of big scary men who will call 911 and then overpower you and tear your clothes off and rape you 17 times and you'll get emotional and cry a lot and regret not listening to my manly wisdom, so why don't you want a gun? are you a commie feminazi?" because that's how most "I want a female's opinion on guns!" posts seem to go.

I have been in EMS since the 80's. I started in Downtown New Orleans La.
...
I look at those same people and know that I am truly blessed to be able to help them.

You are an awesome person, even if you sound like you're on the 700 club.

 

[bigbaldguy]

I'll be the token female and state that I have no desire to have a gun on duty. I would not use it, I would not want to explain to patients why I was carrying around a deadly weapon, I would not want it in my house, and I would not want the responsibility.

I really hope this is not going to turn into "but you are a woman so you are tiny, weak, and helpless, and the world is full of big scary men who will call 911 and then overpower you and tear your clothes off and rape you 17 times and you'll get emotional and cry a lot and regret not listening to my manly wisdom, so why don't you want a gun? are you a commie feminazi?" because that's how most "I want a female's opinion on guns!" posts seem to go.




You are an awesome person, even if you sound like you're on the 700 club.

You don't need a gun you have those 6 pack abs to dazzle em with like kryptonite to superman.