Are San Diego City Paramedics Making Too Much?

[mct601]

How can these employers paying such atrocious wages expect people to live on them?

Brown had always maintained some 100 hour course wonder wasn't worth more (and from a purely economic standpoint they probably aren't) but then you must consider Brown got paid more (even with conversion) working at McDonalds, and at one job that required about 100 hours of training which involved little responsibility sitting at a desk paid a salary of almost NZD40,000.

Is it they simply don't want to pay more so can choose not too because nobody is organised enough to demand more or is it because they can't afford to for lack of income? Brown remembers Medicaid pays about 10c on the dollar, not sure about the insurance companies.

Yuck

multiple factors, from the requirement of little education to the high number of EMT-B/Ps in the work force. One thing I have noticed is that a large availability of EMTs will bring wages down, but a shortage hardly brings wages up. You could also claim that EMS is abused and doesn't get paid on a large amount of its transports. Its a combination of things along with the fact that our employers in EMS just don't care- we are meat with a patch. They find every little reason to not give us a pay raise at work. They work us long unforgiving hours. Then once we hit a high amount of hours to make our pay a little more comfortable, the government hits up with taxes because of the volume of work we've done


/rant

EMS is getting recognition of being in the top 10 worst fields to work in, and top 10 worst paying. Time for an overhaul? hmmm....

 

[medicsb]

Is it they simply don't want to pay more so can choose not too because nobody is organised enough to demand more or is it because they can't afford to for lack of income? Brown remembers Medicaid pays about 10c on the dollar, not sure about the insurance companies.

Yuck

Lack of organization is probably one of the main culprits...

EMS in the US doesn't know where it belongs... It is being pulled between municipal stand-alone services, fire departments, private services, volunteer organizations, etc. At the federal level it is loosely overseen by the the Dept. of Transportation.

We can't decide what to call our selves... EMTs or Paramedics? Pick one, please. The public nor the media cares to differentiate. (I would NOT want to be referred to as a technician... just sayin'.)

We can't agree to advance education... "A certification is just as good as a degree, but cheaper and faster." Nurses abandoned that thought process a long time ago for good reasons.

We collectively allow our profession to be usurped by another profession... One that actively advocates for low standards (see the strike down of the Advanced Practice Paramedic) in order to advance their agenda - self preservation.

We don't support organizations that advocate for EMS... How many here are a part of NAEMT? How many EMTs or paramedics are a part of it, as a whole? Maybe not a perfect organization, but how many others are there like it?

We fail to expand EMS. The "E" is a small portion of what we do and has been so for a long time. There is an opportunity to expand, to manage low acuity complaints in the out-of-hospital setting and better integrate into the healthcare continuum. Instead, we just complain that all we do is "BS". Yes, there are impediments, but we could work to remove those impediments.

These problems likely are just the tip of the iceberg...

 

[emt seeking first job]

There is a lot they could do.

They could lower the pay for probationary employees.

They could lower salaries of high level politicians and administrators.

Wouldnt the average person WANT paramedic to be a well paid job the best and brightest were competing for ?

They could do more random drug and integrity tests.

They could halt further increases.

The real issue is the private sector EMS is underpaid, not that the public sector is over paid, IMHO.

 

[46Young]

So the question is, then, would the city save money by eliminating EMS from the fire department and downsizing the fire department?

Oh, and for the danger, I support no benefits for FFs and EMTs who die in car accidents when they aren't wearing seat belts or develop lung diseases when after a history of not using SCBA. Fire and EMS is dangerous, but a lot of the danger is taken by the individuals themselves refusing to use the protective devices available, which should not be a liability placed on the tax payers. So, sure, fire fighting is dangerous, but if a fire fighter gets lung cancer after years of consciously not using SCBA on, say, car fires, then that's their own fault, and should be their own money to pay for it.

Not so simple - in today's times, the better departments are NFPA compliant. We mask up for dumpster fires, car fires, we overhaul on air as well. It's unwise to come off of the piece already on air. Depending on the wind direction, you're going to take some smoke when pulling a line, throwing a ladder, whatever. What constitutes an IDLH, which dictates when we go on air, is clearly defined. It's important to conserve air. We click in at the last possible moment that we can. Should we be trapped, those breaths that we wasted by being a yard breather might buy us an extra few minutes. When you're trapped and waiting for RIT, and the only thing you're moving is your diaphragm, That minute or two of air that you would waste by stepping out on air can last five minutes or more.

As for car fires, we typically mask up before getting anywhere near the car. The exception to that would be when that fire is threatening an exposure. for example, we had on go off in a driveway. It was starting to light of a nearby tree, which would have spread to the house rather quickly. I hit the tree and the side of the house, masked up, and then hit the car. Not everything is so black and white.

 

[46Young]

Two things:

First, the FF/EMt or FF/medic are responsible for two skills sets. It matters not if you use one much less frequently than the other, you still need to maintain proficiency to be able to do your job when you need it. Should rural EMS be paid less if they're slow and run a call a day?

Second, the average combo department has a 80/20 or 70/30 EMS to fire split. These numbers show the total number of fire incidents and athe number of EMS incidents. But that's not the whole picture. An EMS run (in my dept)will typically have an engine and medic unit for an ALS call, or one medic unit or BLS ambulance for a BLS job. Sometimes you also get an EMS supervisor for a cardiac arrest. A box alarm gets 4 engines, two trucks, a heavy rescue, one medic unit, and EMS supervisor, and a BC. There are other suppression units that require multiple suppression units. Each EMS run and each fire run count as one call towards the total volume, but one uses more resources than the other. Simple call volume ratios don't tell the whole story.

Also, as far as response times, if a pt is experiencing an MI or CVA, a three or four minute delay past the normal response time usually isn't going to change much. If you add that same delay to a fire, a lot can go wrong in that short amount of time. Fire gets plenty of BS calls just like EMS does, but fire also has occasional incidents where a timely response is vital. You wouldn't want to show up at a cardiac arrest 10 minutes or more after the onset, and you wouldn't want to be delayed in getting to a structure fire, either.

 

[emt seeking first job]

Oh, and for the danger, I support no benefits for FFs and EMTs who die in car accidents when they aren't wearing seat belts or develop lung diseases when after a history of not using SCBA.

I do not agree with that.

If a public safety employee is injured in the line of duty they should receive benefits period.

If they fail to follow SOP or protocls of their agency, then they should be disciplined. Go after people who have kids without developing an income stream. Send back to their country of orgin people who illegally entered.

That is the most prissy notion I ever hears, "you were not wearing a seatbelt so no medical care for you......"

 

[JPINFV]

Not so simple - in today's times, the better departments are NFPA compliant. We mask up for dumpster fires, car fires, we overhaul on air as well. It's unwise to come off of the piece already on air. Depending on the wind direction, you're going to take some smoke when pulling a line, throwing a ladder, whatever. What constitutes an IDLH, which dictates when we go on air, is clearly defined. It's important to conserve air. We click in at the last possible moment that we can. Should we be trapped, those breaths that we wasted by being a yard breather might buy us an extra few minutes. When you're trapped and waiting for RIT, and the only thing you're moving is your diaphragm, That minute or two of air that you would waste by stepping out on air can last five minutes or more.

I get what you're saying, and that's not what I'm arguing. There's a difference between some incidental toxic smoke inhalation working outside, and say, screwing around on the roof in a smoke cloud without even a tank on.

 

[JPINFV]

I do not agree with that.

If a public safety employee is injured in the line of duty they should receive benefits period.

If they fail to follow SOP or protocls of their agency, then they should be disciplined. Go after people who have kids without developing an income stream. Send back to their country of orgin people who illegally entered.

That is the most prissy notion I ever hears, "you were not wearing a seatbelt so no medical care for you......"

So, as a tax payer, why should I have my tax dollars support your poor choice of not wearing a seat belt?

 

[usalsfyre]

I do not agree with that.

If a public safety employee is injured in the line of duty they should receive benefits period.

If they fail to follow SOP or protocls of their agency, then they should be disciplined. Go after people who have kids without developing an income stream. Send back to their country of orgin people who illegally entered.

That is the most prissy notion I ever hears, "you were not wearing a seatbelt so no medical care for you......"

Your basically saying "public safety employees" (which EMS doesn't really fit into well anyway) are somehow more entitled than everyone else?

 

[AnthonyTheEmt]

SDSME (rural metro) starts medics around 9-10/hr. That was a few years ago when I applied maybe it's changed but doubt it. AMR starts medics at 11/hr

I have an interview with AMR SD in a couple days. Ive heard their starting pay is $11/hr. If that is the case, then Im turning down their offer.

 

[RanchoEMT]

I have an interview with AMR SD in a couple days. Ive heard their starting pay is $11/hr. If that is the case, then Im turning down their offer.

That's more than San Bernardino Pays....

 

[RanchoEMT]

Brown thinks it is absolutely disgusting and an outrage that your Paramedic are paid such obnoxiously low wages.

Here, Paramedics are paid a salary - Paramedic makes about NZD55,000 and Intensive Care Paramedic makes about NZD68,000 pa for a 4 day work week with no overtime.

According to Google Dollar Conversion, in American Dollars that's:
$43,934 - Paramedic
$54,318 - Intensive Care Paramedic

in San Bernardino County Paramedics start at $14/hr. This is sourced from a recently hired medic... Taking into consideration that medics make overtime(1.5) after 8hr... That Roughly equates to $33,600yr. gross.
After taxes Approx. $26,000yr. or $2,100 a month....

Just wondering... How much More/Less do other locations including outside the states, pay???

 

[AnthonyTheEmt]

So I just interviewed with AMR SD and they offered starting pay of $11.37/hr! As a paramedic! That is less than I make now as an EMT. Should I take this offer, or turn it down? Everything in me says no thanks. I dont want to be barely making it and living on hot dogs and top ramen. What would you do?

 

[firetender]

The nature of the Biz

What would you do?

It is a given that neither the companies nor the medics in them look at ANY position as long-term employment.

Your value in the job market is heightened when you are currently employed.

Take a position doing the work you're best trained for and then continue your search.

The way to enhance one's salary in EMS is more about taking advantage of mobility than anything else.

But also consider if the service has a potential career track; don't stop at just hearing the starting salary.

 

[terrible one]

AMR starts medics at 11/hr

No one listens.......



Up to you if it's worth the low pay.

 

[Handsome Robb]

they offered starting pay of $11.37/hr! As a paramedic!

I make $12.15 an hour as a lifeguard supervisor in the summer and all I do is make sure the high schoolers aren't screwing around at work and deal with angry patrons...thats ridiculous I'm sorry to hear this. That's what a saturated market will do though.

My thought process is that, even with the lower pay, the work experience operating as a medic instead of an EMT will benefit you in further job seeking ventures with better pay. HOWEVER, can you afford to take the pay cut and how long before you can consider relocating to a better paid position?

 

[DrParasite]

So I just interviewed with AMR SD and they offered starting pay of $11.37/hr! As a paramedic! That is less than I make now as an EMT. Should I take this offer, or turn it down?

as long as someone is willing to accept $11.37 to do the job, AMR has no reason to raise wages.

sidenote: if you don't accept the position, I'm sure someone else will.

 

[IrightI]

The private medics make around $9/hr while FF/PM make 325% of that.

I can tell you that AMR VC medics are sitting right around 65-75k a year while medics with bowers are sitting right around 16-20/hr. Possibly an emt spot is 9 bucks an hour, but I for one know that Im not going to invest my time and money into a medic program to turn around and make 9 bucks an hour.

EDIT: As a side note, the wages outside the state of CA are AMAZING. Perhaps new medics out of school might want to look outside the state. There are about four county services in the area of my school, (which is outside the state of CA) and brand new medics are starting at 28.50/hr, with the cost of living significantly less than that of a CA lifestyle; I guess thats why there a medics who have 15-19yrs experience with the county services. There are some options to making a decent living as a paramedic.

 

[alphatrauma]

Proportionality and reading comprehension

The title of the article, and many of the responses here, have left me somewhat perplexed. Well, not really.

Zapf and Councilmember Carl Demaio released a report Thursday that compares the compensation between fire department employees and employees of private sector ambulance companies. It found the fire department is paying salaries up to 325-percent higher than those in the private sector.

Source: Are City Paramedics Making Too Much? | NBC San Diego

Clearly the above mentioned percentage figure is the high-end of the gap scale, yet it is being quoted and tossed around like it is an absolute.

... DeMaio has been calling for the use of ambulances and other response vehicles in place of fully staffed fire trucks as a money saving alternative.

Source: Are City Paramedics Making Too Much? | NBC San Diego

... He also believes the savings could also go toward eliminating the browned out fire stations and threatened service cuts.

Source: Are City Paramedics Making Too Much? | NBC San Diego

Hmmm, saving funds and curtailing cuts in public services. Sounds like this councilman certainly does have an agenda.

For the life of me, I still don't understand the practicality of sending engines on medical calls. [rhetoric]Granted, I haven't been in EMS long... maybe someone could enlighten me?[/rhetoric]

Also, has the related report from the city council's independent budget analyst been released to the public? I'm sure a full review of it would add quite a bit more context to the article.

 

[terrible one]

I can tell you that AMR VC medics are sitting right around 65-75k a year while medics with bowers are sitting right around 16-20/hr. Possibly an emt spot is 9 bucks an hour, but I for one know that Im not going to invest my time and money into a medic program to turn around and make 9 bucks an hour.

and I can tell you that you're wrong. starting pay for AMR Ventura county is around 42-46k a year not 65-75k. And I also can tell you that while bowers medics start at 18/hr on a 12hr car with 14 shifts a month it comes out to about the same as AMR Ventura yearly pay.