Ambulance stopped by ICE, PT's papers inspected, PT deported

VFlutter

Flight Nurse
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What is this- Nazi Germany?
Godwin's Law... You lose all respect and credibility to your argument after that.

Health care is a limited resource not a right. Yes we are in the business of humanity but we would quickly go out of business if we were to care for every human on this planet whom do not contribute back to the common good. It is a tough world we live in.
 

Tigger

Dodges Pucks
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These border checkpoints have been around ever...gasp they even exist in new england and new york. Everyone stops, they ask if you're a citizen, you keep driving if you say yes and "don't raise suspicion." I am not entirely sure how that is acceptable, but that how it be in New Hampshire and Vermont at least.

Also, I very much enjoy working with our local officers. But I don't kowtow to them either. If I think someone in custody should go to a hospital by ambulance, that is what will happen. If they're fooling around scene and the patient wants to go to the hospital, that's what we're doing. They can come meet us. It turns out that most potential criminal activity is not very time sensitive. We are fortunate to work mostly with officers that want patient's medical issues dealt with first and I am thankful for that.
 

CALEMT

The Other Guy/ Paramaybe?
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Did post #3 give it away?
Rhetorical statement.

In regards to the original post, they did follow the ambulance to the hospital after stopping it at a checkpoint. I fail to see what the issue is here.
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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Peculiar, we are right on the border and get calls, mostly for abdominal pain or late term pregnancies, that are absolutely suspicious and ICE/Border Patrol wants absolutely nothing to do with it. They darned sure make it clear that they want absolutely nothing to do with possibly having to pay for any type of medical care.
In case anyone didn't know that, this is 100% correct. Anyone under arrest gets medical treatment paid for by someone that is not the patient. That is why cops hate arresting people who get taken to the hospital, because then they get stuck with the bill.
Oh, and it would be ethnocentrism, not racism, since most Hispanics/Latinos are caucasians.
unless they are black Hispanics, like my buddy whose family is from the Dominican Republic. Sorry random tangent
They stopped the ambulance and questioned the patient and then allowed transport to continue to the hospital as they followed. She was taken into custody after she was discharged from the hospital.
Which is how most LEOs operate around here. Under most circumstances, unless there is a need to imminently arrest a person, they will notify hospital security or hospital PD to notify them prior to discharge (especially if they are being admitted), and arrest them one they have been discharged from the hospital.
How do you know if someone is or isn’t a citizen?
You know, I always wondered about this. If I get stopped, and I can't or won't provide proof of citizenship, will I be detained until I do? so if I leave my wallet on my end table (which happen all too often), and ICE (or any law enforcement agency) stops me, do they have a legal right to detain me until I can prove I have a legal right to be here? or until I can prove I am who I say I am? am I legally required to even provide them my name? could I tell them my name is Alan L Serve, and provide no documentation that I am who I say I am? Isn't it their job to prove I am not Alan L Serve, and prove I'm guilty of a crime, not my job to prove I'm innocent? is it illegal to provide false information about your identity to a law enforcement officer? Don't we have rights against self incrimination, and if providing my real name would incriminate myself.........
 

Old Tracker

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You know, I always wondered about this. If I get stopped, and I can't or won't provide proof of citizenship, will I be detained until I do? so if I leave my wallet on my end table (which happen all too often), and ICE (or any law enforcement agency) stops me, do they have a legal right to detain me until I can prove I have a legal right to be here? or until I can prove I am who I say I am? am I legally required to even provide them my name? could I tell them my name is Alan L Serve, and provide no documentation that I am who I say I am? Isn't it their job to prove I am not Alan L Serve, and prove I'm guilty of a crime, not my job to prove I'm innocent? is it illegal to provide false information about your identity to a law enforcement officer? Don't we have rights against self incrimination, and if providing my real name would incriminate myself.........
The odds are, even if you don't have any id, that you would be allowed to continue. Driver's license means nothing really, there are states that issue them to all comers. Having been in the Border Patrol and worked a checkpoint as well as city patrols, I can tell you there are quite a few things that would clue an agent in that he/she might be dealing with someone who is here illegally.

Much of it has to do with the way the present themselves. Physiologically, people who are "wrong" give off signs, physically and verbally, that there is something not quite right here. It could be something as simple as a mode of dress or hair style. It also could be little things such as they are diaphoretic on a cool day or in an air conditioned vehicle. Could be they are unwilling to make eye contact.

In this case it appears to have been that they presented a letter from an attorney stating she was enroute for medical care.
http://www.themonitor.com/news/local/article_d5455398-bab9-11e7-af71-3fda37940af7.html

They did not drag her off the ambulance in handcuffs.

Sounds cold, but they were doing their sworn duty. There is nothing in the oath that states they will uphold the laws "except in certain cases."
 
OP
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Alan L Serve

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ICE deported this little girl from her hospital room earlier today. She wasn't even half-way done recovering from surgery and they dumped her across the Mexican border. She was brought to the US at 4 months old and this is the only home she has ever known.
 

DesertMedic66

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ICE deported this little girl from her hospital room earlier today. She wasn't even half-way done recovering from surgery and they dumped her across the Mexican border. She was brought to the US at 4 months old and this is the only home she has ever known.
You are aware that with the vast majority of gallbladder surgeries (removals) the patients are discharged from the hospital same day? It doesn’t require a 2 week hospital stay...
 
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Alan L Serve

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You are aware that with the vast majority of gallbladder surgeries (removals) the patients are discharged from the hospital same day? It doesn’t require a 2 week hospital stay...
You do realize she is as American as you? She was brought her at 4 months old and has no life or memories of Mexico. Right?
 

TransportJockey

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You do realize she is as American as you? She was brought her at 4 months old and has no life or memories of Mexico. Right?
Unfortunately due to poor choices made by her parents her legal stranding doesn't make her American
 
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Alan L Serve

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Unfortunately due to poor choices made by her parents her legal stranding doesn't make her American
The only people who have the right to determine who does and doesn't live on this continent are the Native Americans. All others are illegal European invaders.
 

TransportJockey

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The only people who have the right to determine who does and doesn't live on this continent are the Native Americans. All others are illegal European invaders.
Go see hiw well that holds up in court. I'll wait.
 

DesertMedic66

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You do realize she is as American as you? She was brought her at 4 months old and has no life or memories of Mexico. Right?
You are making it seem like the big bad ICE agents snuck into the hospital slapped her in handcuffs as she was recovering from a heart transplant when that is far from the case.

I was born in the US on US soil which means I am a legal citizen of the US. She was not born in the US and was brought over illegally. Legally speaking she is not American.
 

TransportJockey

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DesertMedic66

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The only people who have the right to determine who does and doesn't live on this continent are the Native Americans. All others are illegal European invaders.
Oh god, not this argument. How long ago did that happen? Times have changed greatly. We have laws that clearly state who is a citizen and who is not a citizen and how one goes about becoming a citizen.
 

DesertMedic66

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That's pretty accurate.
That is far from accurate. ICE agents are just like any other enforcement agency. They have laws that they are tasked with investigating. If you are in the county legally then you have nothing to worry about.

A gallbladder surgery is vastly different from a heart transplant.

I highly doubt they had a SWAT team storm the hospital and throw her down to the ground and cuff her.
 

E tank

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Health care is a limited resource not a right. Yes we are in the business of humanity but we would quickly go out of business if we were to care for every human on this planet whom do not contribute back to the common good. It is a tough world we live in.
Very much agree with the first sentence. But a qualifying test of "contribution to the common good" for the provision of health care is a subjective and utilitarian idea that can be applied to anyone who the "in charge" folks approve or disapprove of. It can't work that way and be ethical.

I think a humane and civilized society like ours can find ways to assist people like the one in question here while at the same time acting on our right to sovereignty and protection of our borders. It certainly doesn't need to be an either/or proposition as the OP seems to be suggesting.
 

CALEMT

The Other Guy/ Paramaybe?
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The only people who have the right to determine who does and doesn't live on this continent are the Native Americans. All others are illegal European invaders.
Then by your rational shouldn't you be on a boat or plane back to Europe where you belong?

Seriously this argument? At this point it sounds like you're just trolling. Is it unfortunate? Yes. But her parents made poor life choices and this is the end result. She was born a Mexican national, not an American citizen and was in this county illegally.
 

VFlutter

Flight Nurse
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The only people who have the right to determine who does and doesn't live on this continent are the Native Americans. All others are illegal European invaders.
So what? Literally ever single Civilization in the history of humanity has invaded and conquered to some degree. From the Mayans, the Nordic countries, to the Middle East, and even the Native Americans. The Lakota killed the Cheyenne who killed the Kiowa and so on. So which group would you like to decide who gets to stay on the continent?
 

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