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Ambulance stopped by ICE, PT's papers inspected, PT deported

Discussion in 'EMS-Related News' started by Alan L Serve, Oct 26, 2017.

  1. Alan L Serve

    Alan L Serve Forum Lieutenant

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    Fruit from the poisonous tree. It doesn't matter how long ago it happened as everything stemming from that is invalid.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree
     
  2. DesertMedic66

    DesertMedic66 Forum Troll

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    So then by your own standards, why are you still in the US? Unless of course you’re Native American.

    Your argument has gone from misinformed to straight up asinine.
     
    Remi likes this.
  3. Remi

    Remi Forum Deputy Chief Premium Member

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    The problem with applying that principle here is that the entire history of human civilization is one of tribes and nations enslaving and forcing their cultures and religions on others and taking land and resources from others by guile or by force. America is certainly not uniquely evil in that way, regardless of what modern leftists would have us believe.

    As a general ethical principle, I am as much of an advocate of the NAP as anyone, which is in fact where my disdain for enforcement of unjust laws (especially through the aggressive, militarized style of modern American policing) comes from.

    However, even the grandparents and great-granparents of those of us alive today never had any control over - and therefore bear no responsibility for - events that took place hundreds of years (or more) ago. There comes a point where we really have no choice but to just accept that as good enough. What is the alternative?
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
  4. DrParasite

    DrParasite The fire extinguisher is not just for show

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    so if they don't look like they belong, they can be detained? maybe they look Mexican, that's grounds for detainment? what about if they look asian? what if they have a funny accent, like those people who are south of the border? if they haven't updated their hair style in 15 years, that means you can put them in cuffs..... Everything you said just screams of profiling and racial discrimination.
    You do realize that she isn't an American right? her parents broke the law years ago, and snuck into the US with their infant daughter. She is a Mexican citizen, from mexico, living in the US. She has no US passport, has no SSN, and while she has lived here almost all her life, that doesn't change the fact that she is here illegally, and is not an american.

    Last I checked, there wasn't a status of limitations on when someone can hide from the law for X number of years and their legal status would automatically change from illegal immigrant to legal one.

    Her parents caused her to be in this situation; while I'm sure you blame the big bad ICE agents, for doing their job and enforcing the law, why don't you focus your moral outrage on the the people who are the root cause for this situation: those who snuck her in, bypassing all the legal routes of immigration and citizenship (which, for the record, are neither cheap nor easy for good reason), and put her in the crosshairs of the ICE agents.
     
    CLCustom1911 likes this.
  5. Old Tracker

    Old Tracker Forum Captain

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    You make profiling sound like it's a bad thing?:rolleyes: What is profiling? Using your experience and knowledge as an index of suspicion. In the situations I was referring to, it is basically, for males, the manor of dress and hair styles. It usually takes several months for those to change once they are here. And I am speaking of Mexicans and Central Americans when I say that. The manor of dress and hair styles are what would be a "reasonable suspicion" to make contact with the person and ascertain their status. All good with the courts, established over and over again. If they are documented or it is established they are here legally, after a matter of minutes, they are on their way. US cops do that all the time, New York City just happened to take it to extremes. Sounds harsh, but in reality it isn't. Asians I do not have a clue about.

    Highway checkpoints, within 100 air miles of the border, have been found legal, by the courts, over and over again also.
     
    CLCustom1911 and TransportJockey like this.
  6. Alan L Serve

    Alan L Serve Forum Lieutenant

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    America is a country of immigrants. She is more American than some "real Americans" I've met.
     
  7. DesertMedic66

    DesertMedic66 Forum Troll

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    What is your definition of American? Because it usually means a legal citizen or native of the country. She is neither a legal citizen or a native of this country.
     
    TransportJockey likes this.
  8. StCEMT

    StCEMT Forum Deputy Chief

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    To no longer reply to his posts all around sounds like a good one considering the track record to date....
     
    NomadicMedic and DesertMedic66 like this.
  9. CLCustom1911

    CLCustom1911 Forum Crew Member

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    During a traffic stop, law enforcement has the authority to demand identification from all occupants. And yes, cartels have used ambulances AND humans to internally smuggle drugs.

    You weren’t there, didn’t see what the officers saw, didn’t interview the subjects at the scene. And NPR is far from a politically unbiased source of information.

    It’s pretty clear you don’t work with police in the normal course and scope of your duties, aren’t familiar with case law pertaining to law enforcement checkpoints, or case law as it pertains to reasonable suspicion or probable cause.

    When we (law enforcement) are at a scene, we are in charge. If a person is injured and needs to be arrested, guess what? They go to the hospital we say they go, get treated, and the justice system works it’s broken course.
     
  10. Old Tracker

    Old Tracker Forum Captain

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  11. Chase

    Chase Flight Nurse

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    That update is very helpful and outlines a lot of what is wrong with these types of situations - knee jerk emotional reactions by the media and people without accurate facts. They were not traveling in an “ambulance” and the agents were never noticed of her cerebral palsy, not that it matters.

    Again, it seems like everything they did was appropriate
     
  12. RocketMedic

    RocketMedic Just Like Otters!

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    Horrible optics, though. BRAVE VIGILANT AMERICAN DEFENDERS OF AMERICA DEFEND AMERICA FROM CRIPPLED POST-SURGICAL IMMIGRANT CHILD!!!!
     
    Remi likes this.
  13. Alan L Serve

    Alan L Serve Forum Lieutenant

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    That is literally untrue. Law enforcement can only demand ID from a person who is suspected of committing a crime. A "hunch" or "sixth sense" doesn't count- it must be an articulated reason based on something the LEOs have seen. If you're not suspected of a crime but someone in your party is then you can voluntarily give your ID to the cops but you are certainly not required to do so.

    http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2014/09/can-you-refuse-to-identify-yourself-to-police-officers.html

    http://www.laweekly.com/news/can-you-refuse-to-identify-yourself-to-police-5082793

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes
     

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