Ambulance stopped by ICE, PT's papers inspected, PT deported

Alan L Serve

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She was traveling in an ambulance to Driscoll Children's Hospital in Corpus Christi when federal immigration officers stopped the vehicle at a checkpoint.
Source: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ained-by-ice-officers-after-emergency-surgery
This is an awful precedent to set and an awful policy for ICE to employ. Ambulances must be free from this sort of interference by federal authorities. Do we want to create an atmosphere where people who are in legitimate need of medical care will hesitate to call for help based on their immigration status? Humanity is more important than immigration status and we're in the business of humanity.
 
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TransportJockey

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This is an awful precedent to set and an awful police for ICE to employ. Ambulances must be free from this sort of interference by federal authorities. Do we want to create an atmosphere where people who are in legitimate need of medical care will hesitate to call for help based on their immigration status? Humanity is more important than immigration status and we're in the business of humanity.
You don't work in a border state do you? We already have illegals who don't want to call ems for fear of pd showing up with us and questioning immigration status of the pts family
 
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Alan L Serve

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You don't work in a border state do you? We already have illegals who don't want to call ems for fear of pd showing up with us and questioning immigration status of the pts family
Neyt, Komrad, I am in an interior state. Since when do we allow any law enforcement into an ambulance when there hasn't been a crime committed? It's a gross violation of HIPAA for police to barge into an ambulance where no crime has been committed and demand identifying documents.

It is time to start charging ICE agents with federal crimes for this sort of inhumanity and HIPAA violation.
 

TransportJockey

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Neyt, Komrad, I am in an interior state. Since when do we allow any law enforcement into an ambulance when there hasn't been a crime committed? It's a gross violation of HIPAA for police to barge into an ambulance where no crime has been committed and demand identifying documents.

It is time to start charging ICE agents with federal crimes for this sort of inhumanity and HIPAA violation.
No it's actually not. Police aren't bound by HIPAA. And there have been documents cases of cartels using fire and ems equipment to try and smuggle goods ans peoples over the border.
As for police these are esrablished cbp checkpoints that are all within 100 miles of the border
 

DesertMedic66

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Neyt, Komrad, I am in an interior state. Since when do we allow any law enforcement into an ambulance when there hasn't been a crime committed? It's a gross violation of HIPAA for police to barge into an ambulance where no crime has been committed and demand identifying documents.

It is time to start charging ICE agents with federal crimes for this sort of inhumanity and HIPAA violation.
Since when do we interfere with law enforcement? In my system LEO has pretty much ultimate authority. We could have a patient that is in custody say they want to go to the hospital but if the officer states no then we are required to comply with the officer.

Doing our job does not get us or patients excluded from normal procedures.

It’s going to be very hard to charge ICE agents with federal crimes for doing what is in their federal job description and duty.
 
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Alan L Serve

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Since when do we interfere with law enforcement? In my system LEO has pretty much ultimate authority. We could have a patient that is in custody say they want to go to the hospital but if the officer states no then we are required to comply with the officer.

Doing our job does not get us or patients excluded from normal procedures.

It’s going to be very hard to charge ICE agents with federal crimes for doing what is in their federal job description and duty.
Law enforcement certain do not have ultimate authority. They are bound by the Constitution and federal laws. When a crime hasn't been committed they have no legal authority to demand a person's papers. What is this- Nazi Germany?
 

TransportJockey

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Law enforcement certain do not have ultimate authority. They are bound by the Constitution and federal laws. When a crime hasn't been committed they have no legal authority to demand a person's papers. What is this- Nazi Germany?
Actually if you're within 100 miles of the border they do have authority to conduct border checkpoints. They're all over the southwest.
 

DesertMedic66

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Law enforcement certain do not have ultimate authority. They are bound by the Constitution and federal laws. When a crime hasn't been committed they have no legal authority to demand a person's papers. What is this- Nazi Germany?
Except that it was discovered she was in the country illegally (doesn’t illegally mean a crime has been committed?). These check points are very real and normal things in all border states. At these border checkpoints they are legally able to question immigration status. You are more than welcome to visit them in CA, AZ, NM, and Texas to get more information and tell them that what they are doing is illegal, they absolutely love when people do that.

We aren’t rounding all illegals up and putting them into concentration camps and leading them single file into the gas chamber so no, this is not Nazi Germany.
 
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Alan L Serve

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Except that it was discovered she was in the country illegally (doesn’t illegally mean a crime has been committed?). These check points are very real and normal things in all border states. At these border checkpoints they are legally able to question immigration status. You are more than welcome to visit them in CA, AZ, NM, and Texas to get more information and tell them that what they are doing is illegal, they absolutely love when people do that.

We aren’t rounding all illegals up and putting them into concentration camps and leading them single file into the gas chamber so no, this is not Nazi Germany.
It doesn’t work that way. Law enforcement must have a clear and articulable reason for stopping a person and conducting an investigation (such as checking papers). Unless the color of her skin is reason enough, right? No. That’s racism.
 

DesertMedic66

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It doesn’t work that way. Law enforcement must have a clear and articulable reason for stopping a person and conducting an investigation (such as checking papers). Unless the color of her skin is reason enough, right? No. That’s racism.
Uhhh, it does work that way every minute of every day in the border states...

Here are some resources for you:
https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1084/~/legal-authority-for-the-border-patrol
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps
 

DesertMedic66

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Unreal.
How do you know if someone is or isn’t a citizen? You don’t and therefore the Constitution always applies prior to investigation.
By questioning them at border checkpoints which is legal to do..
 
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Alan L Serve

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By questioning them at border checkpoints which is legal to do..
This Ambulance going from one hospital to another did not cross an international border. Are you OK being stopped by LE while transporting a sick patient in order to allow LE to pretextually investigate? This child needed surgery which was delayed.
 

DesertMedic66

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This Ambulance going from one hospital to another did not cross an international border. Are you OK being stopped by LE while transporting a sick patient in order to allow LE to pretextually investigate? This child needed surgery which was delayed.
It does not need to cross the border in order to be questioned.

Did you read the article? They stopped the ambulance and questioned the patient and then allowed transport to continue to the hospital as they followed. She was taken into custody after she was discharged from the hospital. It was gallbladder surgery and not something like cardiac cath. Delaying transport for maybe a max of 10 minutes is not going to have a huge impact on her gallbladder.
 

Old Tracker

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Peculiar, we are right on the border and get calls, mostly for abdominal pain or late term pregnancies, that are absolutely suspicious and ICE/Border Patrol wants absolutely nothing to do with it. They darned sure make it clear that they want absolutely nothing to do with possibly having to pay for any type of medical care.

As to the OP, you gotta live and work down here to understand. The whole thing might have to do with the new policies re: immigration violation crack downs. ICE doesn't just randomly pull a name out of a hat.

Oh, and it would be ethnocentrism, not racism, since most Hispanics/Latinos are caucasians.
 

StCEMT

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Unreal.
How do you know if someone is or isn’t a citizen? You don’t and therefore the Constitution always applies prior to investigation.
It's not my job to investigate. I will still provide equal level care. However, if law enforcement does want to investigate, assuming I have no suspicion of critical medical problems, I won't stop them. Just like I waited until PD was finished gathering their information on the car accident I worked today before leaving.

But you can't say something is unconstitutional if 1. They are known to not be a citizen and 2. Can't say what amendment is being violated.
 

CALEMT

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It's grossly obvious that he doesn't live in a border state and has absolutely no idea of these proceedings.
 

Carlos Danger

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This is entirely unconstitutional.
Going by the intent of the Constitution, it absolutely is. But for all practical purposes, the 4th amendment has been completely erased over the past couple of decades. There is very little constitutional protection from search and seizure for anyone anymore, natural-born citizen or not, reasonably suspected of a crime or not. That is a simple, unfortunate fact of modern life in America.

You are well aware of civil asset forfeiture, I assume?
 

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