josh rousseau
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Other then suicidal threats when are patients not allowed to refuse care?
Not here. If the patient still refuses medical care we are to follow the patients wishes but must contact a base hospital to for documentation/audio recording.When they’re in custody of law enforcement.
I’ve been told by an instructor it’s more of a judgment call as in one beer they can usually refuse but a couple they cant
I’m not gonna lie brotha u lost me in this paragraphThe concept we use is clinical sobriety. They chose to drink so if they can care for themselves and understand the risks and benefits of treatment then they can certainly refuse care. If you think about it we have chronic alcoholics who will start to withdraw in the 200s so if we metabolize them below base line they are now in a worse decision making position than before.
I’m not gonna lie brotha u lost me in this paragraph
If they are not their own custodian (children, wards of the state, Some forms of PD custody, et cetera), gravely disabled, homicidal, suicidal, or if they cannot fully understand the risks and benefits of treatment and competently make their own decisions.
I deal with this on a daily basis, but they don't wander off till I'm done with getting the doc on the phone to agree. Easiest thing is to not have them sign till it's approved, but then again I can tell LEO to take active duty soilders or suicidal patients into custody to get them to the hospital.That seems redundant and silly.
Also, if they're in a military capacity and ordered to accept care, I.e. drilling NG or active soldiers are involved in an accident and refuse care, but their command orders them to accept care.
This is interesting I did not know this one thank youThat seems redundant and silly.
Also, if they're in a military capacity and ordered to accept care, I.e. drilling NG or active soldiers are involved in an accident and refuse care, but their command orders them to accept care.
So are you treating them despite their desire to refuse care, or are they consenting to be treated based on the orders of their commanding officer?Also, if they're in a military capacity and ordered to accept care, I.e. drilling NG or active soldiers are involved in an accident and refuse care, but their command orders them to accept care.
When was the last time you told a LEO to take an active duty soldier into custody, who didn't want to be treated or transported, and they forcibly restrained said solder, and then took the soldier to the hospital against the patient's wishes?I can tell LEO to take active duty soilders or suicidal patients into custody to get them to the hospital.
Within the last few weeks. I work on base and we have different rules then normal civilian paramedics. But most of the time the threat of well you are coming with us or going in handcuffs with the MPs is enough to get them to climb into the ambulance and go for a ride.So are you treating them despite their desire to refuse care, or are they consenting to be treated based on the orders of their commanding officer?
Meaning, as a civilian EMS provider, are you required to treat them based on the wishes of their CO, regardless of whether or not the patient actually consents to be treated?
I've dealt with didn't want to piss off their Sgt so when the Sgt said your going to get checked out, that was the end of the discussion. Then again, I've had similar discussions with firefighters who didn't want to piss off their Chief, and cops who didn't want to piss off their captains. But if the patient decided during transport that they didn't want to go, I couldn't legally force them to continue to receive treatment.
When was the last time you told a LEO to take an active duty soldier into custody, who didn't want to be treated or transported, and they forcibly restrained said solder, and then took the soldier to the hospital against the patient's wishes?
The bolded is an important distinction.But most of the time the threat of well you are coming with us or going in handcuffs with the MPs is enough to get them to climb into the ambulance and go for a ride.
Good point, we also have DoD cops too, but we all operate on a slightly different set of rules than in the civilian world.The bolded is an important distinction.
In your example, they are consenting, albeit under the potential threat of force by the MPs.But most of the time the threat of well you are coming with us or going in handcuffs with the MPs is enough to get them to climb into the ambulance and go for a ride.