What is a 24 hour shift worth?

[Tigger]

I'll be the first to admit that I have a pretty cushy fulltime job. 24 hour shifts out of a fire station with medium call volume, decent equipment, and less than 20 minute transport time.

Recently I was shown the pay scale for the company I work for, and it was a sad moment. Those on 24s make $7.75/hr starting, while working 10 hour shifts nets you $11/hr. Both end up making around 23k a year, but working 24s mean that I work many hours than guys on other schedules for less money.

Is this a common phenomenon? Back in Massachusetts at the private company I worked for the medics made like 18 an hour and worked 24s or 12s, but there was no shift differential. Doesn't really seem right to have to work far more hours to make the same money.

So I ask, what is it worth to work out of a station, and to have a schedule with no consecutive days of work and the four day break? It certainly is not the money...

 

[MediMike]

I'm not sure what your system is like bud, but for what we work (48/96) I wouldn't trade it for anything. Although yes, we do work more hours and make the same wage, we run fewer calls, and do end up getting paid to sit on our butts a fair amount. Now, if you're rocking a busy busy system where you are the regular shift folks end up with the same # of calls you've got to look at what you value more, the increased time off, or the chance to be home every night/morning

 

[Tigger]

I have just never heard of any other job where the more you hours work the less money you make, maybe I'm just ignorant.

 

[Trashtruck]

46Young has a wealth of knowledge on salaries and wages for various schedules as well as the benefits and detriments.

 

[Hunter]

I'm with you, that makes absolutely no sense.... do the people who work 24s get less calls? better benefits? Some other compensation? I wouldn't do it, it makes no sense to work more for the same amount of money.

 

[jefftherealmccoy]

I have just never heard of any other job where the more you hours work the less money you make, maybe I'm just ignorant.

I worked for a private ambulance company that did the same thing.

The majority of employees worked from posting stations all around the county while a select few got to work in stations. The posting trucks did 12 hour shifts while station trucks were 24. They paid so that both made the same yearly salary, but it came out to a lot more hours for the station guys. When we figured it out the station guys made like 2.50 an hour less. But if the station guys picked up an overtime shift they were paid out as if they made the posting truck's wage.

The station trucks were always the first to be fought over. People didn't really care that they got paid less.

 

[DesertMedic66]

I worked for a private ambulance company that did the same thing.

The majority of employees worked from posting stations all around the county while a select few got to work in stations. The posting trucks did 12 hour shifts while station trucks were 24. They paid so that both made the same yearly salary, but it came out to a lot more hours for the station guys. When we figured it out the station guys made like 2.50 an hour less. But if the station guys picked up an overtime shift they were paid out as if they made the posting truck's wage.

The station trucks were always the first to be fought over. People didn't really care that they got paid less.

This is how it is with my company.

 

[Akulahawk]

I have worked for companies that paid for the entire twenty-four hour shift, and I worked for companies that paid for 13/24 hours. To date, I have yet to work for a company that paid a different base rate depending upon the shift you work. Some of my friends however have worked for companies that did that. The ones that did, usually had an agreement that they would pay straight time until you reached 40 hours per week. We did this knowing that after working overtime, the total paycheck would still work out to about the same as someone who worked 40 hours/week by doing 10 hour shifts at a slightly higher base rate.

The companies that paid for 13/24 hours would not pay you (or allow you to work) for the 3 meal periods they gave you, nor would they pay you for the 8 hours "sleep time" each shift. If they did have you work during "sleep time" they would be required to pay you over time. They did this so that they can reduce their payroll. When I worked for companies that did that, I found that I much preferred working a 12 hour shift over working a 24 hour shift simply because that one extra hour really wasn't worth the extra headache. Another company that I used to work for would pay straight time for the first 8 hours, and then they would pay overtime for the remaining 16 hours of a twenty-four hour shift. They ended up going out of business, but not because of the payroll situation, rather they lost a large chunk of their call volume because of changes in their response area. Consequently, the ended up running approximately 4 calls per day rather than 12 – 16 calls per day.

 

[Wheel]

Our company does this. In the large city we cover, 12 hour trucks with a posting plan. Outlying stations are hard stations with 24/48 shifts. All make the same yearly regardless of shift, so the 24hr guys (me) make less hourly but aren't nearly as busy. It sucks on busy days but is awesome when I'm sitting in my recliner.

I'm looking to move to a 12 hour shift if I end up getting to move, hopefully, but beggars can't be choosers.

 

[DrParasite]

It all boils down to what you want. Personally, I would LOVE to work 24s.... but I also know that if you work in a medium to busy system, it is both impractical and unsafe.

At my current job, we work 12s, and you can do upwards of 20 jobs during a shift (on a busy night). On a very slow night you are typically doing at least 8 calls. Going to 24s would be nuts. Now if you are doing less than 10 calls in 24 hours, with relatively short transport times (less than 1 hour per call), they would be much more tolerable

I don't like changing your pay based on the shift; differentials are ok (nights and weekends are usually tyhe big ones), but your base rate should be livable, and equal throughout. After all, can you live on 23k a year? I know I couldn't.

My biggest thing is I want to be paid for the time I am at work, and the time I am away from my family. If I get to sleep, great, but by the same token, I can end up running all night, and I expect to be paid for my time.

Maybe it's just me, but I want to have a life outside of work. That means I want to work about 40 hours a week, regardless if that's 2 24s, 3 12s, 4 10s, or 5 8s. I'd also like to get paid OT when I work more than 48 hours (knowing that doesn't always happen with the 24s). 24s allow you to work OT and a side job (which I have done since I started working FT in EMS), but It's something I would do because I wanted extra money, not because I need to work OT to live and pay my routine bills.

 

[JPINFV]

Yes, but the 12 hour shifts aren't getting paid to sleep. Also, how many of the 12 hour shifts are posting in their ambulance instead of a nice cozy station?

I have just never heard of any other job where the more you hours work the less money you make, maybe I'm just ignorant.

Residents vs attendings. Attendings? 80 hours a week? [nobody got time for that.jpg]

 

[Amberlamps916]

Yes, but the 12 hour shifts aren't getting paid to sleep. Also, how many of the 12 hour shifts are posting in their ambulance instead of a nice cozy station?




Residents vs attendings. Attendings? 80 hours a week? [nobody got time for that.jpg]

Since we have a combination of being understaffed/low levels, our 24 hour crews are always posting. It's mind boggling how unsafe it is for them to be running 20+ hours a day but hey, when your crew is making $8-$12 an hour, safety shmafety.

 

[socalmedic]

that is how my company works it, we all make the same annual pay but since I am on a 24 I work 56 hours per week instead of 42. I much prefer to work the 24 and make less per hour because I am being paid to watch TV from a recliner, hang out with my partners, and best of all SLEEP. we may have one or two nights per month where we are up all night, but most are at least 6 hours of sleep. plus I have more opportunity for overtime and vacation.

 

[DrParasite]

Yes, but the 12 hour shifts aren't getting paid to sleep. Also, how many of the 12 hour shifts are posting in their ambulance instead of a nice cozy station?

Is there a guarantee they will get sleep? If they work the overnight (7pm to 7am), and end up going on 13 calls, then what? Are they "getting paid to sleep" if they are going on calls? Since I am "getting paid to sleep" does that mean I can refuse to go on a job, because I'm too tired?

Similarly, I can (and have) slept in a truck. I've slept in the front, and I've slept in the back, on dayshift, when we weren't assigned to a call. It can be done.

Remember, you can call it sleep time as an excuse for paying you less, but if I'm at work, away from my family, and away from my bed, I expect to be paid my hourly rate; after all, that's what my time is worth. yours might not be worth as much

 

[Arovetli]

Last 24 I worked there was no sleep, only posting, posting, calls, calls, free slurpees at the gas stations we posted at, and a 5 minute nap on the buddy bench. Hideous.

 

[Arovetli]

Last 24 I worked there was no sleep, only posting, posting, calls, calls, free slurpees at the gas stations we posted at, and a 5 minute nap on the buddy bench. Hideous.

And yes, pay was different for 12 vs. 24, ft. vs. pt., and for transport vs. 911. If you knew how to run a good game, you could play the differences to your advantage.

 

[JPINFV]

Since we have a combination of being understaffed/low levels, our 24 hour crews are always posting. It's mind boggling how unsafe it is for them to be running 20+ hours a day but hey, when your crew is making $8-$12 an hour, safety shmafety.

Oh, I completely agree that if a station crew is running like a day crew than they should get paid like it. Also, yes, running 20+ hours/day is unsafe. Now if only I can convince gen surg that having their students up 30+ hours straight is unsafe as well.

 

[JPINFV]

Remember, you can call it sleep time as an excuse for paying you less, but if I'm at work, away from my family, and away from my bed, I expect to be paid my hourly rate; after all, that's what my time is worth. yours might not be worth as much

If you don't like the wage structure, don't accept the wage structure. You get paid what you agreed you would get paid.

 

[Arovetli]

now if only i can convince gen surg that having their students up 30+ hours straight is unsafe as well.

 

[Wheel]

If you don't like the wage structure, don't accept the wage structure. You get paid what you agreed you would get paid.

This. Except someone will always do the job for less. I agree that you should shop around for a place to work, but as a young paramedic, experience is vital and you have to get it where you can.