What should we do to improve EMS

AJ Hidell

AJ Hidell

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ericcoch said:
What do you think? What do you do?
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The system is broken, and it can't be fixed. Don't waste any time or effort trying. Let it collapse, forcing your community leaders to join the 20th century and provide full-time professional EMS. It's the best thing you can do for your community. And that's who this should be all about, right?
 
that is just sad for someone to think that way. There are many, and I would gather to guess the volunteer squads are the majority of providers, so I think that it is sad for someone to have that view point, I just hope that people do not have that same thought, and I also hope that it is not your town that does that and your loved one who suffers while the system fails. I think that I and others are willing to do the job for FREE, and that saves my town money that can be spent on the parks or schools or even salt for my street.

So please to anyone else out there who are not giving up, how do you welcome and train new members before they can take a FR or B course?
 
Please do not encourage people to harm my profession by asking them to do the job for free.
 
ericcoch said:
that is just sad for someone to think that way. There are many, and I would gather to guess the volunteer squads are the majority of providers, so I think that it is sad for someone to have that view point, I just hope that people do not have that same thought, and I also hope that it is not your town that does that and your loved one who suffers while the system fails. I think that I and others are willing to do the job for FREE, and that saves my town money that can be spent on the parks or schools or even salt for my street.

So please to anyone else out there who are not giving up, how do you welcome and train new members before they can take a FR or B course?
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So parks and salt is more important than a professional EMS? Wow! I am dishearten that someone has such low priorities of EMS.

Thank you, you just proved our point. If one was really interested in patient care and development of EMS, there is money out there. Geez... salt and parks more important than citizens health.

R/r 911
 
yes what little money is around in a small town can be better spent when there are people willing to do the job for free, not a pay check or credit or anything else, but to help our neighbors. We have all levels of training and all do it for free, from paying for the training our selves and taking what little time we have to keep up with continuing ed and taking the courses in the first place. I have worked for both paid, paid on call, and now run with my home town for FREE. And the volunteers out there do it all the time to help people, not for pay. So do not look down at the volunteer departments because they every where and you know what we do not even charge or bill, a lot of our residents do not have insurance so the tax dollars pay for supplies, gas, and new ambulances every few years. And when the tones go out so do we, just like everyplace else.
 
Ridryder911 said:
So parks and salt is more important than a professional EMS? Wow! I am dishearten that someone has such low priorities of EMS.

Thank you, you just proved our point. If one was really interested in patient care and development of EMS, there is money out there. Geez... salt and parks more important than citizens health.

R/r 911
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LOL. He made your point w/o even realizing it and now after your posts continues to make it again.
 
ericcoch said:
So please to anyone else out there who are not giving up, how do you welcome and train new members before they can take a FR or B course?
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So you don't think that EMS is worth paying for? You don't think the weakest and most vulnerable of your citizens would be better served by someone who chose to complete a couple of years of formal medical education, than by someone who had to be talked into attending a 40 or 120 hour first aid course? You don't think that people suffering a critical cardiac event, anaphylaxis, or respiratory distress could benefit from something more than oxygen and a ride to the hospital in an ambulance being driven by people with little to no training and experience, who rely on dangerous and often fatal "diesel therapy" to compensate for a lack of medical sophistication? Is that really all you think your friends and family are worth?

But guys mowing the grass and picking up trash at those parks are a more important expenditure than EMS? You don't even value yourself and your services, and you think I am sad?

Now tell me again which one of us is sad.
 
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As has been sent to a few posters in this thread:

Our Community Rules state:
We take the "be polite" rule VERY seriously! We do not tolerate ANY rudeness, profane or offensive language whatsoever. Any member who is intentionally unpleasant or disruptive may be suspended or banned.
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Continuing to take every thread off topic to push an agenda serves no one, and will ultimately lead to loss of posting privileges. Really, if you don't have anything positive or helpful to post, just don't post.

Back on topic, you could teach members CPR/First Aid/AED/O2, Hazmat, Extrication, Communicable Diseases, Communications, Assisting ALS crews, Medical Terminology, and a few others.
 
My Mama taught me if I had nothing good or positive to say, then one is to keep quiet but I see not everyone was brought up that way:sad:
Volunteers have a special place in my heart and in the community, I gave 2 years for my country so you could "rant & rave" on this board.
 
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Dustoff said:
My Mama taught me if I had nothing good or positive to say, then one is to keep quiet but I see not everyone was brought up that way:sad:
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You're questioning the parentage of your fellow forum members here? Very nice start.

Just because you disagree with an opinion does not make that opinion bad or negative. I would call trying to silence others opinions a bad and negative thing though, would you not?
 
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My apologies Captain, I just see a lot of personal attacks from certain individuals and fell into the pit. I will restrain and refrain.
 
Dustoff said:
My Mama taught me if I had nothing good or positive to say, then one is to keep quiet but I see not everyone was brought up that way:sad:
Volunteers have a special place in my heart and in the community, I gave 2 years for my country so you could "rant & rave" on this board.
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Are you saying you served the country for free, that you refused a check?

Because if you volunteered to serve in the military but accepted a check you are not a volunteer.



Now to origional post if you are wanting to let people see what is involved you could as mentioned just do a CPR course and include HIPAA, patient priv acy then have them ride along to get a taste. They would then see what the job is about. Now the problem with that though is w/o education it could scare away some good people.
 
Ridryder911 said:
So parks and salt is more important than a professional EMS?

R/r 911
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Also some community leaders think that roads and sidewalks are more important. The service I'm with is paid on call. Here in the NWT there are some communities that have no EMS. Most of those communities are not connected to the highway system. They can only be reached by air. I believe only 7 out of 25 communities here in the NWT have any type of EMS from trained to untrained. When the medevac plane reaches those communities without any EMS they are met either by the guy who owns a van, or RCMP, or by a snowmobile and sled if in winter. Also here in the NWT we have no territorial legislation regarding EMS, so my service we use the Alberta College of Paramedics for licensing. Also I'm wondering how long this thread wil last before getting locked by a CL
 
I'm going to ignore the usual "Vollies Suck" noise and stay with the original topic.

My service is volunteer, but it has a huge retention rate. Simply because they offer free schooling to anyone who wants to advance. If you go all the way, they provide you with a four year degree. If you manage to make it to medic when they lift the periodical hiring freeze, you get hired in to actually get paid for your duties.

They do this in exchange for four twelve hour shifts a month. If you can at least get them to pony up the money for the education incentive, you might be able to get people to stick around. The more you learn, the more addictive it gets, and the higher up people will go.

In the end, you end up with a decent fleet of medics and EMT-I's.

It also helps to get a couple actual ambulances in your possession, if all you have are your POV's. Nothing says "amateur" like showing up in a rusty pickup with a jump bag. Get yourself official sanctioned by the state, get an incorporated charter and regular inspections, and a real ambulance or two. The exchange we have with our city is that we buy the rigs and the equipment via fund raising and grants, and they pay for fuel, repairs, and dispatch center.
 
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I believe you will see more and more of these "beasts" for sale. The federal funding that was scammed for such devices has bit most cities in the butt to keep them running. As well, common sense soon comes in and one realizes there are few to if ever a response that needs such a truck

I ask this; can the degree be in anything or has to be EMS/ or fire related?

There is such a Paramedic shortage in my area, many services are paying not just for school but duty pay while your in school. So yes, you get paid for going to school + your school, as long as you make a five year commitment.

Not a bad gig for many.

R/r 911
 
Ridryder911 said:
I believe you will see more and more of these "beasts" for sale. The federal funding that was scammed for such devices has bit most cities in the butt to keep them running. As well, common sense soon comes in and one realizes there are few to if ever a response that needs such a truck

I ask this; can the degree be in anything or has to be EMS/ or fire related?

There is such a Paramedic shortage in my area, many services are paying not just for school but duty pay while your in school. So yes, you get paid for going to school + your school, as long as you make a five year commitment.

Not a bad gig for many.

R/r 911
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Would sign up for that in a heart beat. Too bad the Navy keeps us moving around so damn much.

As far as the truck goes: It actually got a lot of use. Any fire, extrication, other unusual case or mass casualty situation it got called out to and was used as the command center. It got so much use, in fact, that the fire department decided they wanted one of their own instead of always using ours.

Since we are a volunteer service that sustains itself with donations and federal/state grants, it just makes more sense to sell it and pad our coffers a bit. Which sucks, because I just got done with my extrication training and certification. Now I don't get to play with the jaws. Regardless, the money we get from that can pay for pretty much brand new LifePacks for all the ambulances, as well as fully supply the brand new fifth ambulance we just bought and is set to be delivered this summer.

Not to mention, with the fifth ambulance coming in, we need the room in the bay.
 
Ridryder911 said:
I ask this; can the degree be in anything or has to be EMS/ or fire related?

R/r 911
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Missed that part, sorry. It is a BS in nursing, essentially, but the degree is actually titled "Acute Care and Pre-Hospital Paramedic Medicine." In addition to winning the "Longest Title of a Degree" award, you can also take a two semester course after you have it (only one class a week, shorter if you take the accelerated course) to bridge it to RN (though you don't get the RN degree, obviously.)

The fire department pays their folks to get degrees in in the fire stuff, though we can take some of those classes as an elective.

I SUPPOSE you could offer the deal to get a degree in anything, but it wouldn't really be worth it to the EMS service in question. The idea is that you are raising the level of care, and ultimately trying to groom medics out of them. That makes it worth paying for their schooling. Hell, the military takes four years of CONSTANT commitment for them to pay for your degree in whatever you choose.

In our case, most of the medics that get their degree and go on to other cities for better pay or hospitals for better hours still volunteer with us. Either they like it, or are just gluttons for punishment.
 
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AJ Hidell said:
You're questioning the parentage of your fellow forum members here? Very nice start.

Just because you disagree with an opinion does not make that opinion bad or negative. I would call trying to silence others opinions a bad and negative thing though, would you not?
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I'm a brand-new member here, but have been in EMS since 1988, off and on. I've spend many years as an ALS provider (and volunteer) and am currently getting my ALS certs back.

Having run in both good and bad volunteer agencies, I can tell you from first-hand experience that the key to attracting good people and keeping them involves organization, activity, training, and recognition. The squad I run with now is one of the best I've ever seen. It is highly organized, and provides free training to members. It has a robust, well-developed program for taking people with zero experience and giving them plenty to do between riding along as observers to completing training prior to their EMT-B class. It also owns all of its own equipment... approx. 20 ambulances. Our county provides the buildings and support and career staff from 0500 until 1800 during the week... the volunteers run everything from 1800 until 0500 and all weekends and holidays... on their own trucks. The savings to the county is profound... $8-9M per year.

Being careful not to step on any career toes, but the opinion that volunteers are 2nd class citizens somehow, and that only career EMS can (or should) provide EMS services is very naive and extremely short-sighted. It is also not grounded in reality. Many communities simply cannot afford career services, nor does their call volume warrant them. Especially now, when the economic downturn is becoming deeper and more disastrous, volunteers are becoming more and more important for vital services to continue in many communities. Simply stomping your feet and grousing about their obviously misplaced priorities doesn't help, other than to remind many of why we have such an intense dislike for the arrogance of career medics.

I really think that the most productive approach here is to recognize the relative worth of each type of service... and actively work to increase the quality of EMS rendered, regardless of who's getting paid for it, instead of consistently tearing the other down as worthless and "2nd class." Just my 2 cents.
 
Sorry, but if your county is large is enough for such service; then its large enough for a fuill time paid EMS. Why only half the time? Kinda like a half time Fire Department.


Sorry, not going to cut it.

p.s. if you are spending 8-9 million for a half time service, time for new management!

R/r 911
 
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