Young EMS Personnell

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Cheese and rice. There is no hope for EMS after all. Looks like I will be going to PA school so that I can be among professional educated adults.

You mean there's not a junior PA program!?!?!? Darn it!

It is NOT a profession for alot of caring and dedicated volunteers who put their time into saving others lives.

There are dedicated individuals who have been fighting a long time to make EMS a profession. There are multiple things that inhibit that, and letting CHILDREN into EMS is one of them.

But that is because EMT does not require the skill and educational requirements that these professions do. Anybody can be an emt. Hate to break it to you, but the skills are not hard. If you read and remember the stuff, and practice, youll know all the stuff. That is not true for these real PROFESSIONS that you listed because they are not VOLUNTEER at all.

And you have just shown your ignorance about the profession. EMT SHOULD require more education than it does. It shouldn't have the "So easy a child can do it!" mentality. You are little more than a boyscout. EMTs should be an extension of a hospital, not a taxi ride to it. But of course, that would require educated adults.

I have never been treated any lower than an adult provider by fellow providers and patients.

Wow. You must be pretty lucky. I'm 21, although I look quite a bit younger, and I still get the "You guys sent a KID to take care of me?" or "Isn't it past your bed time? Go home to your mother and eat your milk and cookies" before I even open my mouth to say "Hi, my name is Sasha and I'm a paramedic student, why did you call today?"

People want an ADULT taking care of them with their very real medical problems.

Heck, can you even become a CNA or MA before you reach 18?
 
Well first off, I am glad to see that is young blood that has the heart and soul to do this. My squad just restarted the junior program. Young people are the future of EMS. In Pennsylvania you can take the EMT when you are 16, but you can not do any patient care by themselves until you are 18. We have been graced to get some juniors. It seems like people again bashing the voulnteers, we are here to work for a common good. Let's figure out how we can all work together, instead of against each other.
 
Well first off, I am glad to see that is young blood that has the heart and soul to do this. My squad just restarted the junior program. Young people are the future of EMS. In Pennsylvania you can take the EMT when you are 16, but you can not do any patient care by themselves until you are 18. We have been graced to get some juniors. It seems like people again bashing the voulnteers, we are here to work for a common good. Let's figure out how we can all work together, instead of against each other.

Only the opinion of someone who gives out their services for free. You must not have a very high opinion of EMS, because if you did, you would charge for your services. Would you go to school to become a real estate agent and sign up for a volly real estate agency?
 
Law enforcement has explorer posts, does that make them unprofessional? Perhaps if we lock the kids in the closet they will never get hurt, or scared, or figure out that people get sick and die. It is no more voyeuristic than volunteers in the hospital, career day, or even a clinical. Lets not pretend we don't have 120 hour first aiders tag a long. We even have the MFR gawkers.

I really hate to break it to you guys, EMS is not a medical profession. It would be great if it was but sadly it is not.

Most EMS is set up as a public safety service, not a health care service. The only way that is going to change is to pass off the values we want to see on younger people before they get corrupted with the fast and easy way.

This idea of educated EMS professionals doesn't exist! You can't compare a RN, MD, PA, RT, or any other healthcare profession to EMS.

First, EMS is extremely limited in scope. It is rare exception there is a license instead of a certification. Even if you do have a license it means almost nothing except you have a 2 year degree. EMS persons cannot take individul responsibility for their practice.

Second, since a large part of EMS is fire based, it has become nothing more than a patch. A credential like hazmat, extrication, or technical rescue. We have faught the good fight for years and you know what we have acheived? Nothing. We are no better off today as a profession than we were 20 years ago.

National registry is only going to accept degree programs? So what? Nobody needs a registry card. Aside from spending some money every few years, it doesn't really do much. (or anythng at all) From Memphis TN and all around the country, there is an increase in homegrown education for EMS, not less.

You want to be a healthcare provider? Put MD, DO, RT, RN, PA or something similar after your name. If we ever want this to change we have to be able to call a spade a spade and face what EMS is not what we would like to pretend it is.

Why don't we exclude some more people? We don't seem to like volunteers, fire service EMS, private EMS, or explorers?

It begs the question what do we like? Who gets to be in the group? College isn't a requirement. It's like being a carpenter, mason, or any other skilled laborer. Think about that the next time there is an "ALS vs BLS" discussion.

If you are old enough and "mature" enough to drive a car, go out drinking with your friends, and have sex as a teenager, you are old enough to do something for society and your fellow man.
 
Well first off, I am glad to see that is young blood that has the heart and soul to do this. My squad just restarted the junior program. Young people are the future of EMS. In Pennsylvania you can take the EMT when you are 16, but you can not do any patient care by themselves until you are 18. We have been graced to get some juniors. It seems like people again bashing the voulnteers, we are here to work for a common good. Let's figure out how we can all work together, instead of against each other.

Okay, let me see if I can get this right. They can take the course as a child and then not do anything with it unless they are supervised or turn 18? Seriously, what are they going to do for me? Maybe chest compressions or something else a non-trained person could do as well. Now, I am not just responsible for my partner, patient and others; I have to have a tag along? No thanks.. I can do with out. Seriously, more than two in the back in too many and I much rather have my real partner with me and let another MFR/EMT drive back.

Heart and soul bologna... let's call it like it is an adrenaline rush. Put them on strictly transfer non-emergency units and see how many will volunteer? If they were serious and wanted to know about the profession as an EMT level; show them the truth.

Again, I dare anyone to justify why we have to regress to having youth on and to observe patient care? Do you want your spouse to be observed just because someone thought it would be neat to maybe enter this profession someday?

Let's suggest to hospitals to do this. Place teenagers in ICU to monitor patients and assist in patient care, heck let's put them in Labor & delivery too, might as well see all of it and then in neonate ICU...NO? You say... "well those are specialized areas, that require professionals".. Exactly, the same as prehospital care if those involved in it would become educated and understand that.

Sorry, I am diligently working to ban such programs through insurance companies and I am glad to say they are interested. Seeing such as a high liability and risk. We need professionals not children, nothing personal but until we start thinking and acting as such, we will never be considered anything more.

** I see that most of the posts are originating from PA and only have a few posts to their credit.. wonder if it is not of their own?
R/r 911
 
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Sorry, I don't buy it. I have a lot of respect for you vene, but I do not believe children belong in an ambulance. The differing views make us human.
 
We are our own worst enemy.

Everyone is so pre-occupied with what other proffesions think of us. Do they accept us? Are we considered health care proffesionals or public safety? Does it matter?

We need to concentrate on doing are job proffesionaly and competently. Not be so concerned with what everyone else thinks of us.
 
Sorry, I am diligently working to ban such programs through insurance companies and I am glad to say they are interested. Seeing such as a high liability and risk. We need professionals not children, nothing personal but until we start thinking and acting as such, we will never be considered anything more.

R/r 911

Pretending to be a professional seems more like being a poser.

You know here in Europe many start med school at 17, and we have hospital time first year. Medicine has to accept there will always be students, in all areas of healthcare.

It also sounds very underhanded to go around agencies that want to have such programs by attacking their logistics.

I have to ask, do you do anything that benefits EMS or do you just deride everything that doesn't agree with your point?
 
I started in a fire based system at 17 working as an EMT now I'm a medic and believe a better one for it. Take what the older guys give you listen, pull the truth from it, and throw the rest away. As far as the age issue welcome to ems and fire that’s what we do... However I hope you are not mistaken in the fact that your thinking your “a young group" and not really inexperienced providers. Experience has its benefits I will suggest finding a seasoned provider to mentor you as an officer. As a young provider and officer your going to be judged the good new is it won’t last your whole life...
 
I should point out, I live in an area where professional EMS and Fire rescue exists. I work in Los Angeles at this moment but am making the transition to working in my home area, which I will not name but is obvious to some here who know.

The agency that runs 911 in my area is a private paid ALS agency that pays well and retains its employees. It focuses on clinical education and not medicare fraud, and it prefers its members have a college education, in fact, you get a increase in salary with a associates, and an even better one if you have a bachelors degree. Its seperate from Fire. Fire maintains BLS engines.
 
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Let me set the record straight here once and for all !

I do have a high opinion of EMS, and I am not just a volunteer, I also work for a paid service. I have been a volunteer for 17 years and been working for paid services for 11 years, so don't think I don't know what goes on in the world of EMS, I am not stupid. I know alot of people that do both. What the bottom line is that some of you see volunteers as threats to your jobs or the way that you get paid. Is EMS providers underpaid ? I can say I can agree. So are police, fireman, and other public servants. So I don't want to hear that non sense that volunteers are threats to paid services. And by the way, I know some 16 and 17 year olds that have a higher level of common sense and maturity than some older people. GROW UP PEOPLE !
 
Really? I thought volunteers saw paid services as a threat to their little hobbie.
 
Pretending to be a professional seems more like being a poser.

You know here in Europe many start med school at 17, and we have hospital time first year. Medicine has to accept there will always be students, in all areas of healthcare.

It also sounds very underhanded to go around agencies that want to have such programs by attacking their logistics.

I have to ask, do you do anything that benefits EMS or do you just deride everything that doesn't agree with your point?

Prove to me the benefits. Show me the statistics and science base evidence that having an observer of being a minor is helpful in outcomes and growth in the industry. We can easily pull up research of the detriments of exposure of high stressful events to those under the age of 21, exposure of death and dying affects to the psyche of those of the minor ages as being detrimental (even movie ratings suggest such).
I really could care less how they do things in Europe. European medicine has never impressed me as I have worked with residents from there. I don't live there. If I did I would protest it there as well.

If we want to compare accomplishments in EMS just exactly how many Senate and Legislative movements have you been active on? Nationally or even locally? Let's get to the basics of even how much true field experience do you actually have? Ten years, fifteen, twenty? Have you ever been an EMS administrator or even teach Paramedic courses? Have you ever established EMS in communities and dealt with local governments to fund EMS? Have you ever established regional (multi state) developing State and local EMS Systems? Are you a even an active member of a National, State EMS association, EMS Educators Society that promotes changes? If so, how active are you?

You described "We are no better off today as a profession than we were 20 years ago"" Exactly where were you twenty years ago? Were you working in the field then? Did you have to run out of a suburban ambulance and use monitors that had no twelve lead capability that Nationally there was only about 10,000 real Paramedics? Yeah, we used to be able to have 16 year old drive EMS units too. Guess what, they were considered too immature and inexperienced to be able to handle such..but it is okay to allow patient care? How asinine! The only way you know what occurred is by the hear say and reading of other posts. Yes, we are not as advanced as most would like and you want to know why? By those that like to talk and take no action.

You are spouting off things as facts when in reality they are not. Such as .."Nobody needs a registry card. Aside from spending some money every few years, it doesn't really do much"... Really, want to back up what you state? Actually there are very many states that does require to have and maintain NREMT status. So yes, there are some that do need a Registry card. Also many states license as a Paramedic is just as respected as a license for the RN, P.A. even a Physicians. Again, rhetoric that is not true. Also do you really know how much scientific research is being performed on EMS a daily basis from the NREMT? That there is more than two full time research fellows that in performing such duties. How do you think all medical professionals became in being? Look at the Osteopathic Physician's. Until about twenty years ago many would not even give them privileges to non-D.O. hospitals even though their programs were longer and had longer residency.

Your other statement of ... "since a large part of EMS is fire based, it has become nothing more than a patch".. I beg to differ. Not every state is largely comprised of Fire EMS. Review the American Ambulance Association records. Many offer EMS as a service but may not perform sole EMS duties such as transports and only provide MFR services.
I know of Police departments that have EMFR within responding units, should they be classified as EMS also?

Just because one can have limited privileges such as driving, drinking does not automatically allow one to be prepared to handle all events. Alike I described using the military as an example is a poor one. We all really know why they use the youth, it is not because of their wisdom.

Just because you want to wash your hands in making EMS a profession does not mean those of us that do take this profession serious ought to. Just because it did not immediately become as we thought it should be we should allow compromises.

There is a reason those that are really involved in EMS as a profession don't usually bother with reading EMS forums. They consider most that posts as poorly informed participants and really a joke. Ever notice that there are just a few of us that have credentials and experience that take out time to post? Their feeling is why should they bother?

Again, I state.. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
 
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Let me set the record straight here once and for all !

I do have a high opinion of EMS, and I am not just a volunteer, I also work for a paid service. I have been a volunteer for 17 years and been working for paid services for 11 years, so don't think I don't know what goes on in the world of EMS, I am not stupid. I know alot of people that do both. What the bottom line is that some of you see volunteers as threats to your jobs or the way that you get paid. Is EMS providers underpaid ? I can say I can agree. So are police, fireman, and other public servants. So I don't want to hear that non sense that volunteers are threats to paid services. And by the way, I know some 16 and 17 year olds that have a higher level of common sense and maturity than some older people. GROW UP PEOPLE !

So you work against your own salary than. You probably could use a better salary, but by working for another service for free, you shoot yourself in the foot.
 
Well evidently us volunteer's, along with observers who want to help people, are just a waste of time. Everybody should be paid which makes you "professional", isn't that correct? Volunteers will never be professional and we just like to go ride in our ambulance and commit "fraud" by providing piss poor patient care and sending a big bill to a patient while enjoying our "hobby". Well, since everybody claims they have the answer on here, what's your plan for a hicktown ambulance that doesn't have enough funding to pay so called "professionals", much less the call volume and a municipality that doesn't have enough money to buy an adaqute snow plow truck? combine together? is that the solution? That won't work either. We've tried, we've discussed, and we got the shaft by the local governments and old tradition. You people can give me all the reasons in the book why basic EMT's suck and why you guys are the best but as far as I'm concerned you don't live here and you don't know what it's like. All I wanted from this was an opinion, which I got, and it fries me to see you reem people out for voicing their opinions. And Ridryder911, if your so impressive as you say you are, we should be hearing about you on the national news.

your quote of...

There is a reason those that are really involved in EMS as a profession don't usually bother with reading EMS forums. They consider most that posts as poorly informed participants and really a joke. Ever notice that there are just a few of us that have credentials and experience that take out time to post? Their feeling is why should they bother?

is pretty ironic since you seem to be the cat's a$$ when it comes to experience and credentials
 
There is a reason those that are really involved in EMS as a profession don't usually bother with reading EMS forums. They consider most that posts as poorly informed participants and really a joke. Ever notice that there are just a few of us that have credentials and experience that take out time to post? Their feeling is why should they bother?

So happy to know you have such a poor opinion of the posters here.
 
Lets not let this degenerate. Rid/ryder is not incorrect in his statement. Educated medical professionals usually will have at least an associates degree, and most of the time much higher than that. Not a lot of us here have such degrees. There may be a few, but the sample population of this forum, and most of EMS, are volunteer or paid EMTs with little to no real medical education. There are thousands of educated and knowledgeable Paramedics across the country, but soooo few of them post here.... get where I am going with this? The ratio of properly educated members to volunteer/paid EMTs with a 110 hour cert class is disproportionate. Now, if EMS required college education, most of us here would have one, and there would be fewer volunteers because college education takes money, blood sweat and tears. Not a 110 hour first aid class. The vast majority of those with a full college education would never dream of providing their services for free.
 
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I hope this thread is not being hijacked into a volly vs paid. If that happens then this thread will probably get locked. So people let's keep this thread on its original topic. Please can we do that.
 
Lets not let this degenerate. Rid/ryder is not incorrect in his statement. Educated medical professionals usually will have at least an associates degree, and most of the time much higher than that. Not a lot of us here have such degrees. There may be a few, but the sample population of this forum, and most of EMS, are volunteer or paid EMTs with little to no real medical education. There are thousands of educated and knowledgeable Paramedics across the country, but soooo few of them post here.... get where I am going with this? The ratio of properly educated members to volunteer/paid EMTs with a 110 hour cert class is disproportionate. Now, if EMS required college education, most of us here would have one, and there would be fewer volunteers because college education takes money, blood sweat and tears. Not a 110 hour first aid class. The vast majority of those with a full college education would never dream of providing their services for free.

You can be "really involved in EMS as a profession" and not still hold the EMS associates degree. There are people here who truly want to get an education, want to be in EMS for the right reasons, and are truly dedicated to the profession. I'm wondering why, if Rid has such a poor opinion of those that frequent this site, why does he continue to do so?
 
daedalus I don't disagree, however, a Masters degree from Harvard doesn't mean much if you don't apply it. Applying it takes more than just book reading and clinicals, it's takes repitition and doing it for years as well as building on what you've learned. I have all the respect in the world for people that make the choice to get a college degree in medical/electronics/science etc. I have nothing against them what so ever, however if your going to disrespect what is in place where I live I find that quite rude.

as for fortsmithman... I agree, let's debate, but be curtious and not be demeaning and disrespectful to us "unprofessionals"
 
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