Would benadryl help anaphylaxis any?

[Clare]

Personally I would not administer it. The single most effeitve treatment for anaphylaxis is adrenaline.

H1 histamine antagonists such as loratadine or diphenhydramine are useful in providing relief from localised symptoms such as rash or itching but I know of no evidence showing they are effectie as a treatment for systemic anaphylaxis.

Looks like one of those "do it because it's always been done" things ... http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/706039

Oh, and while oral loratadine is carried it is not used as a treatment for anaphylaxis.

 

[NomadicMedic]

I'd certainly give the Benadryl, but not expect it to magically reverse the symptoms. The adsorption rate is too slow and the histamine mediation that Benadryl would provide, while important, isn't going to save your buddy's life, if the reaction is severe. He needs epi and fluid.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2003/1001/p1325.html

 

[Summit]

What's an EMSA?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=EMSA
Can the admins make it so when this member hits reply, a google search box pops up before they can access the reply feature?

Good Samaratin

Correct. I'm on a SAR but we have no medical director at all. If/when we find a lost person who needs medical help I suddenly transform from a SAR member to an EMT-who-happens-to-be-off-duty-but-in-the-right-place-at-the-right-time.

You might want to google that too. Good Samaratin laws vary by state and many are NOT designed to protect responders from organized rescue even if they are volunteer. VPA offers some liability limits.

 

[NomadicMedic]

To the OPs credit, EMSA is a pretty California specific term. In many places it's called the OEMS, DPH or DOH. In Connecticut we always just just called it "the regional council".

And fully agree about the SAR responders. If you're a rescuer with no medical direction, you're allowed to act as a "lay responder" which is generally viewed as Boy Scout level first aid. If you respond on a incident where you could be reasonably expected to provide patient care, you are most likely NOT covered by any Good Samaritan type legislation if you exceed the level of lay responder. Even carrying medical equipment like a stethoscope or airway adjuncts would simply reinforce the idea that you were responding as a medical professional, not as an EMT who just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

 

[Tigger]

Really? I thought that was strictly in the domain of a nurse and that EMTs can only do what is allowed under state law and they have protocols for (NTG, ASA, Albuterol, etc). Are you saying EMTs can dispense an OTC provided there is a label on it with their name?

We have a protocol for it. EMTs here can assist the patient in taking their own OTC medications for their intended purposes. Not really a big deal.

 

[Tigger]

What's an EMSA?


Correct. I'm on a SAR but we have no medical director at all. If/when we find a lost person who needs medical help I suddenly transform from a SAR member to an EMT-who-happens-to-be-off-duty-but-in-the-right-place-at-the-right-time.

Hopefully you are not performing any more than basic first aid then. Does your team carry anything more than basic first aid equipment?

 

[GloriousGabe]

Hopefully you are not performing any more than basic first aid then. Does your team carry anything more than basic first aid equipment?

Just basic first aid, but in that description we include a BVM but not airway adjuncts.

 

[GloriousGabe]

We have a protocol for it. EMTs here can assist the patient in taking their own OTC medications for their intended purposes. Not really a big deal.

I am certain there are no protocols that allow an EMT to give out OTC medications. I asked my state EMS board about that and they said it's only in the domain of nurses and up. Can you kindly post a copy of your protocols so that I can show my state EMS board that it does exist?

 

[Clare]

I am certain there are no protocols that allow an EMT to give out OTC medications. I asked my state EMS board about that and they said it's only in the domain of nurses and up. Can you kindly post a copy of your protocols so that I can show my state EMS board that it does exist?

Hmm ... here's a list of drugs what we call an Emergency Medical Technician can administer:

Aspirin
GTN spray
Oral glucose
IM glucagon
Paracetamol
Ibuprofen
Oral tramadol
Entonox
Methoxyflurane
Loratadine
Oral ondansetron
Salbutamol nebules
Ipratropium nebules
Oral prednisone
Adrenaline IM and nebules
Ceftriaxone IM (consultation with CSO)

 

[TransportJockey]

Hmm ... here's a list of drugs what we call an Emergency Medical Technician can administer:

Aspirin
GTN spray
Oral glucose
IM glucagon
Paracetamol
Ibuprofen
Oral tramadol
Entonox
Methoxyflurane
Loratadine
Oral ondansetron
Salbutamol nebules
Ipratropium nebules
Oral prednisone
Adrenaline IM and nebules
Ceftriaxone IM (consultation with CSO)

But your emts actually have a real education, unlike bls providers in the us

 

[GloriousGabe]

Hmm ... here's a list of drugs what we call an Emergency Medical Technician can administer:

Aspirin
GTN spray
Oral glucose
IM glucagon
Paracetamol
Ibuprofen
Oral tramadol
Entonox
Methoxyflurane
Loratadine
Oral ondansetron
Salbutamol nebules
Ipratropium nebules
Oral prednisone
Adrenaline IM and nebules
Ceftriaxone IM (consultation with CSO)

You're not in the US. Our BLS education is your very basic first aid course. Your EMT course in our paramedic program.

 

[EMSComeLately]

I am certain there are no protocols that allow an EMT to give out OTC medications. I asked my state EMS board about that and they said it's only in the domain of nurses and up. Can you kindly post a copy of your protocols so that I can show my state EMS board that it does exist?

You aren't reading closely.

You can assist administering "their own" medications, OTC or otherwise.

You can't give ambulance stocked medications, OTC or otherwise. (Typically)

 

[GloriousGabe]

You aren't reading closely.

You can assist administering "their own" medications, OTC or otherwise.

You can't give ambulance stocked medications, OTC or otherwise. (Typically)

I am reading very closely. I specifically asked about helping (aka assisting) someone in taking their own meds. The state EMS board said if we did anything other than ASA and NTG we'd lose our certifications. Thanks but no thanks. I don't know how anyone has protocols for that but I would LOVE to see them. Can you post a link?

 

[chaz90]

I am reading very closely. I specifically asked about helping (aka assisting) someone in taking their own meds. The state EMS board said if we did anything other than ASA and NTG we'd lose our certifications. Thanks but no thanks. I don't know how anyone has protocols for that but I would LOVE to see them. Can you post a link?

I don't have a copy of those protocols, but is it that hard for you to believe that many things are different in different areas of the country? Very few things are absolutes. Just because something doesn't reflect your own knowledge or experience doesn't mean it can't exist somewhere.

 

[Jim37F]

Plus many SAR teams aren't actually run by EMS operations, and who's members aren't often EMT trained and thus don't have a medical director to answer to in the first place

 

[EMSComeLately]

I am reading very closely. I specifically asked about helping (aka assisting) someone in taking their own meds. The state EMS board said if we did anything other than ASA and NTG we'd lose our certifications. Thanks but no thanks. I don't know how anyone has protocols for that but I would LOVE to see them. Can you post a link?

I can't because there is no universal link.

Common sense is always available. If someone needs help getting and holding a glass of water to take their BP meds, you can. However, you're still supposed to verify the "rights" before assisting.

 

[GloriousGabe]

I don't have a copy of those protocols, but is it that hard for you to believe that many things are different in different areas of the country? Very few things are absolutes. Just because something doesn't reflect your own knowledge or experience doesn't mean it can't exist somewhere.

Yes it does as EMTs are very explicitly trained and scope is DRILLED into our heads. Therefore anyone who suggests otherwise needs to show proof. Do you you have a link to your protocols?

 

[GloriousGabe]

I can't because there is no universal link.

Common sense is always available. If someone needs help getting and holding a glass of water to take their BP meds, you can. However, you're still supposed to verify the "rights" before assisting.

Maybe if you're a paramedic but definitely not if you're an EMT. I once asked if we can use a Pulse Ox (not in our protocols) and was told by the state medical board that I'd be practicing medicine without a license. We can't do anything unless we have a law that permits it and a protocols that tells us.

 

[chaz90]

Yes it does as EMTs are very explicitly trained and scope is DRILLED into our heads. Therefore anyone who suggests otherwise needs to show proof. Do you you have a link to your protocols?

This applies if we were discussing YOUR protocols. Of course you have to work under your own scope. We're trying to explain that other people may have rules that seem unfamiliar to you and don't reflect your experience. You seem to be stuck in some kind of attitude where everything is black and white, and the way you learned something is the only possible way. Just as you learned that you cannot do something like use pulse oximetry or administer OTC medications doesn't mean other EMTs in other jurisdictions were not taught something completely different.

Again, I do not have a link to the protocols, but I am open minded enough to realize that they exist.

 

[GloriousGabe]

This applies if we were discussing YOUR protocols. Of course you have to work under your own scope. We're trying to explain that other people may have rules that seem unfamiliar to you and don't reflect your experience. You seem to be stuck in some kind of attitude where everything is black and white, and the way you learned something is the only possible way. Just as you learned that you cannot do something like use pulse oximetry or administer OTC medications doesn't mean other EMTs in other jurisdictions were not taught something completely different.

Again, I do not have a link to the protocols, but I am open minded enough to realize that they exist.

Proof please. I'm very agreeable to believing what I see.