Why are Paramedics paid so little?

[NomadicMedic]

Glad to see you've got it all figured out.

Best in your future endeavors.

 

[CALEMT]

View attachment 3517

At least he's keeping it relevant, gotta give him props for that.

 

[MikeC]

Its not all about the title or the reputation, its about you, its about being pationate about helping others. I went from getting payed well to getting payed as low as a fast food employee in ems but its not about the money either its about being happy in what you do.

I hear this a lot actually in just about every health profession it seems. Ultimately, compassion and altruism does not pay the bills however. They should be a predominant factor, but finances is important. There's nothing wrong with making some money.

I have a feeling many healthcare workers don't get paid what I believe they are worth due to that type of mentality.

 

[MikeC]

Glad to see you've got it all figured out.

Best in your future endeavors.

I certainly don't have all the answers, but in my experience I've done more research than most. I also have more already invested in both time and money into this process.

 

[NomadicMedic]

So, since you've done a fair amount of research on EMS careers, let me address some of this.

Well I'll be NREMT licensed hopefully for EMT-B at the beginning of March. I should pass the tests with flying colors. Albeit what's posted here, I think a majority of my class is struggling with the volume of information and based upon the practice NREMT exam tests I've taken it's not an easy test. From talking to my instructors, they've had a pretty low pass rate in the past for the written exam.

EMT is really just basic first aid, with the course material written at an 8th grade level. It ain't rocket science. In fact, I'll say if you possess even baseline competency, it's an easy test.

I certainly don't believe "anyone" can pass the course or even function as a competent EMT-B even. It takes dedication. I really think those that aren't putting in that effort aren't going to make it, especially the first test around.

Agreed. The reason most candidates who fail the NREMT don't understand how adaptive testing work and they're used to the "study and regurgitate the answers" type of testing. The CBT is nothing like that. It tests the candidate on core knowledge and the ability to use critical thinking to solve the problem. You may kill it in class and still fail the CBT.

With the risks EMS providers take on both physically and legally, I certainly believe they should be compensated better. The decisions they make directly impact someone's life, and often times they are putting their own life at risk. Carfentanil, Hydrogen sulfide gas, inhalation could easily kill first responders in small doses very quickly.

Which legal risks do EMS providers take on? And as far as physical risks, FWIW, noxious gasses can kill utility workers, HVAC techs and the guy that delivers fertilizer to the local soybean farm just as quickly as they kill first responders. The risk of injury or death is one of the many risks that you assume when you become a EMS provider. As a profession we do our best to mitigate the risk, but it's still there. You have a better chance of suffering a career ending injury carrying an obese patient than you do of coming in contact with Carfentanil or H₂S

Here's a question, how much more compensation do you believe that EMS workers should receive? One dollar an hour? Two? Five? What do you base that on? The fact that they may die when taking granny to her dialysis appointment? So may the Uber driver. Fact is, a less than 200 hour, one semester community college course shouldn't entitle you to any more than what any other minimally trained blue collar worker makes. If there were only 25 EMS providers in a community, I could see paying them a significantly higher wage. But there's not. There's hundreds of mouth breathing EMT minions that'll do this job for FREE to drive an ambulance with lights and sirens.

Pretty sad they don't even pay health insurance when it's sometimes mandatory for EMS responders to get vaccines, treatments to various exposures such as Meningitis, etc.

All of my required vaccines, yearly health exam, PPD and treatment for any on the job exposure is fully covered by Occupational Health and has been at EVERY EMS job I've ever had. Plus, at my current hospital based system, the cost of health, dental and vision benefits for my entire family is extremely minimal.

I find it a bit appalling that all of this is starting at $10/hour. Oh well will do it for the experience as long as I can afford it, and then move on to something else. I can't afford making $10/hour for long. I'm currently making $13.50/hour at another part-time job in academia tutoring the sciences. That doesn't require insurance, cont ed, etc.

Then move somewhere EMTs are paid more. In Seattle it's not uncommon for basic EMTs to make $20/hour. Cost of living, don't ya know. Paramedics in Washington State regularly make around 80k. Sound more doable? I'm in a very affordable part of the country and I'll make about 50k this year and I only work 2 days a week. If I want more, I'll work some OT. Sounds like a good life/work balance to me.

Overall I'm happy to have taken the course, but it looks like I won't be in it long. Ultimately bills need to be paid.

As the McDonald's employee of EMS, a basic EMT is paid exactly what they deserve. And that's a simple matter of supply and demand. A large supply of worker bees who'll do the job for $10/hour means that the wage will never be higher than that.

 

[MikeC]

So, since you've done a fair amount of research on EMS careers, let me address some of this.



EMT is really just basic first aid, with the course material written at an 8th grade level. It ain't rocket science. In fact, I'll say if you possess even baseline competency, it's an easy test.



Agreed. The reason most candidates who fail the NREMT don't understand how adaptive testing work and they're used to the "study and regurgitate the answers" type of testing. The CBT is nothing like that. It tests the candidate on core knowledge and the ability to use critical thinking to solve the problem. You may kill it in class and still fail the CBT.



Which legal risks do EMS providers take on? And as far as physical risks, FWIW, noxious gasses can kill utility workers, HVAC techs and the guy that delivers fertilizer to the local soybean farm just as quickly as they kill first responders. The risk of injury or death is one of the many risks that you assume when you become a EMS provider. As a profession we do our best to mitigate the risk, but it's still there. You have a better chance of suffering a career ending injury carrying an obese patient than you do of coming in contact with Carfentanil or H₂S

Here's a question, how much more compensation do you believe that EMS workers should receive? One dollar an hour? Two? Five? What do you base that on? The fact that they may die when taking granny to her dialysis appointment? So may the Uber driver. Fact is, a less than 200 hour, one semester community college course shouldn't entitle you to any more than what any other minimally trained blue collar worker makes. If there were only 25 EMS providers in a community, I could see paying them a significantly higher wage. But there's not. There's hundreds of mouth breathing EMT minions that'll do this job for FREE to drive an ambulance with lights and sirens.



All of my required vaccines, yearly health exam, PPD and treatment for any on the job exposure is fully covered by Occupational Health and has been at EVERY EMS job I've ever had. Plus, at my current hospital based system, the cost of health, dental and vision benefits for my entire family is extremely minimal.



Then move somewhere EMTs are paid more. In Seattle it's not uncommon for basic EMTs to make $20/hour. Cost of living, don't ya know. Paramedics in Washington State regularly make around 80k. Sound more doable? I'm in a very affordable part of the country and I'll make about 50k this year and I only work 2 days a week. If I want more, I'll work some OT. Sounds like a good life/work balance to me.



As the McDonald's employee of EMS, a basic EMT is paid exactly what they deserve. And that's a simple matter of supply and demand. A large supply of worker bees who'll do the job for $10/hour means that the wage will never be higher than that.

Long post.I'll just make a few comments.

From what I hear, the majority of class struggles with the NREMT national exam. Now this could be the class in of itself, but I hear from people in other curriculums the same type of problem. As for me, I have taken a number of NREMT practice exams including through the official jblearning website written by those that wrote the exam. I did quite well and am not concerned at all about taking it.

As for your point on EMTs making less due to supply and demand, what I see is a short-lived position where people move on to other careers, as I'm planning on doing. Now maybe that's the role EMS is established as. Not really a place to settle in for a career long-term, but to obtain skills and move onto something else.

I live in a rural area. There are plenty of volunteer companies, but they are staffed by the older generations mostly. The reality is, the younger generations do not have the time to volunteer for services. With the increased costs of living and costs of education, there is no way I could do this on a volunteer basis. It's just not fiscally possible. I don't know of any younger EMT that has any desire to work as a volunteer for a local ambulance company. All of them are looking for paid positions. Is there enough demand for services, that's yet to be seen.

As for environmental hazards, yes a farmer could inhale hydrogen sulfide and die but they are not RUNNING INTO environments with unknown drug substances that upon inhalation could kill a person instantly or routinely enter situations that at a moment's notice could turn hostile is a different situation entirely. As for legal liability, every patient encounter risks for both criminal and civil liability. This is not the case in your local factory.


I'm not complaining at all. It is what it is. While I plan on enjoying the work for a time, it is short term and am looking to move onto something with more career stability. Part-time work at $10/hour barely pays for my gas and food for the day, let alone health insurance, rent, etc.

Increase the wage to whatever is respectable for a person that you'd feel comfortable working on your mom with reported chest pain. Or not and let the revolving door of EMS make the new grad EMT make the decision. To equivocate an EMT worker to a minimum wage worker is misguided. If you're a medic, you must have worked with some terrible EMTs to come to the conclusions you've come to.

In the state of PA, EMTs do more than just drive the ambulance and transport grandma from the nursing home.

 

[STXmedic]

 

[MikeC]

Care to elaborate the false knowledge?

 

[STXmedic]

Care to elaborate the false knowledge?

Wow, somebody is a little defensive I literally said nothing in this thread. How do you know my stance on this subject?

 

[CALEMT]

Wow, somebody is a little defensive I literally said nothing in this thread. How do you know my stance on this subject?

Everyone gets defensive when someone says EMTs get paid fairly at $10/hr.

 

[MonkeyArrow]

@MikeC Your grasp of operational EMS seems very well established for someone who hasn't worked a day in the field. Based on what have you drawn many of these conclusions?

 

[Handsome Robb]

My base pay rate as a Paramedic is close to 58/year in an affordable area to live and I only work 10 shifts a month.

I'll clear 70 easily this year with my OT that I work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NomadicMedic]

Long post.I'll just make a few comments.

From what I hear, the majority of class struggles with the NREMT national exam. Now this could be the class in of itself, but I hear from people in other curriculums the same type of problem. As for me, I have taken a number of NREMT practice exams including through the official jblearning website written by those that wrote the exam. I did quite well and am not concerned at all about taking it.

As for your point on EMTs making less due to supply and demand, what I see is a short-lived position where people move on to other careers, as I'm planning on doing. Now maybe that's the role EMS is established as. Not really a place to settle in for a career long-term, but to obtain skills and move onto something else.

I live in a rural area. There are plenty of volunteer companies, but they are staffed by the older generations mostly. The reality is, the younger generations do not have the time to volunteer for services. With the increased costs of living and costs of education, there is no way I could do this on a volunteer basis. It's just not fiscally possible. I don't know of any younger EMT that has any desire to work as a volunteer for a local ambulance company. All of them are looking for paid positions. Is there enough demand for services, that's yet to be seen.

As for environmental hazards, yes a farmer could inhale hydrogen sulfide and die but they are not RUNNING INTO environments with unknown drug substances that upon inhalation could kill a person instantly or routinely enter situations that at a moment's notice could turn hostile is a different situation entirely. As for legal liability, every patient encounter risks for both criminal and civil liability. This is not the case in your local factory.


I'm not complaining at all. It is what it is. While I plan on enjoying the work for a time, it is short term and am looking to move onto something with more career stability. Part-time work at $10/hour barely pays for my gas and food for the day, let alone health insurance, rent, etc.

Increase the wage to whatever is respectable for a person that you'd feel comfortable working on your mom with reported chest pain. Or not and let the revolving door of EMS make the new grad EMT make the decision. To equivocate an EMT worker to a minimum wage worker is misguided. If you're a medic, you must have worked with some terrible EMTs to come to the conclusions you've come to.

In the state of PA, EMTs do more than just drive the ambulance and transport grandma from the nursing home.

All I'm going to say here is, it is blindingky obvious that you don't know what you don't know. But, hey... You're the top student in your EMT class, so I'm sure you have a good grasp on it. Best of luck to you.

 

[MikeC]

Wow, somebody is a little defensive I literally said nothing in this thread. How do you know my stance on this subject?

Not defensive at all. You posted a pic of a guy stating "beware of false knowledge". As there's nothing written, I can only guess this has something to do with the conversation. I'm at a loss to what though. Simply curious.

 

[MikeC]

@MikeC Your grasp of operational EMS seems very well established for someone who hasn't worked a day in the field. Based on what have you drawn many of these conclusions?

Okay so educate me on where I am incorrect. This is a discussion forum. I'm simply probing for information.

 

[STXmedic]

Not defensive at all. You posted a pic of a guy stating "beware of false knowledge". As there's nothing written, I can only guess this has something to do with the conversation. I'm at a loss to what though. Simply curious.

That's a quote that's on the bottom of every one of my posts...

 

[MikeC]

All I'm going to say here is, it is blindingky obvious that you don't know what you don't know. But, hey... You're the top student in your EMT class, so I'm sure you have a good grasp on it. Best of luck to you.

I'm hear to learn what I don't know. I will pass this course and become licensed. Chances are, I will be running at least one part-time job with an ambulance service in the near future as a EMT-B BLS crew.

By all means, inform me where I'm wrong. This statement is not a challenge thinking I have all the answers but simply a probe looking for more answers.

 

[NysEms2117]

EMT is really just basic first aid, with the course material written at an 8th grade level. It ain't rocket science. In fact, I'll say if you possess even baseline competency, it's an easy test.

couldn't agree more, common sense/ability to listen and say yes sir/ma'am is all that is needed for EMT-B

With the risks EMS providers take on both physically and legally, I certainly believe they should be compensated better.

Your protocols and on-line medical control are there for a reason...

I cannot speak to health insurance and life insurance, that is through my main job.
EMT's in Albany NY, can in fact live and support a family off of working reasonable hours (yes a bit of overtime is factored in).

but they are not RUNNING INTO environments with unknown drug substances that upon inhalation could kill a person instantly or routinely enter situations that at a moment's notice could turn hostile is a different situation entirely

Should you be running into that environment?? Sure sounds like the scene is unsafe, sounds like a job for the police or hazmat.

Your cost of living determines everything. If you live in the middle of the desert in New Mexico, or NYC or *insert giant city here*, There will and SHOULD be a huge pay difference. Even in the state there may be, take NYS for example. The state of NY will pay folks that live in Rockland county/southern(by NJ) about 4k more per year, because the cost of living is higher. Capital district(Albany/me) +2k, because pay needs to be adjusted. In New Mexico 100k will buy you about 10x more then what it will in NYC.
Edit: proper grammar will go a long way as well.

 

[MikeC]

That's a quote that's on the bottom of every one of my posts...

Ok. That's all I saw posted. Good quote ultimately.

 

[MikeC]

couldn't agree more, common sense/ability to listen and say yes sir/ma'am is all that is needed for EMT-B

Your protocols and on-line medical control are there for a reason...

I cannot speak to health insurance and life insurance, that is through my main job.
EMT's in Albany NY, can in fact live and support a family off of working reasonable hours (yes a bit of overtime is factored in).

Should you be running into that environment?? Sure sounds like the scene is unsafe, sounds like a job for the police or hazmat.

Your cost of living determines everything. If you live in the middle of the desert in New Mexico, or NYC or *insert giant city here*, There will and SHOULD be a huge pay difference. Even in the state there may be, take NYS for example. The state of NY will pay folks that live in Rockland county/southern(by NJ) about 4k more per year, because the cost of living is higher. Capital district(Albany/me) +2k, because pay needs to be adjusted. In New Mexico 100k will buy you about 10x more then what it will in NYC.
Edit: proper grammar will go a long way as well.

You know how it goes.. dispatched to possible drug overdose.. everyone's gone but the person laying there half dead from an opioid overdose. You don't know what you have until you see syringes laying around, little baggies everywhere, etc.. find out later what the substance was carfentanil laced heroin and a small whiff of the powder could quickly send you into respiratory arrest.


There is standard precautions, but it's not a perfect system. A patient can become violent at any time in a seemingly "safe" situation.


How much do EMT-B start out where you're talking about?