Unlike me?
lol
I know what it is, I know what it's for, and I know where mine is.. I just didn't know the proper word for it.
Hood. Now I know!
Hey, as long as you know where your neck sock thingies is, you're good, right?
Wearing bunker/turnout pants?
- Thread starter LifeOfAMedicStudent
- Start date
Hey, as long as you know where your neck sock thingies is, you're good, right?
Left coat pocket [emoji1]Hey, as long as you know where your neck sock thingies is, you're good, right?
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DrParasite
The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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Why not? they provide an added level of protection between you and the outside cooties, they keep your legs warm on cold nights, and they make you look sooooo sexy. Back in the day, I used to wear bunker pants all the time, especially on my old volunteer squad when I would answer a call wearing just shorts and flip flops..
BTW, even though the FD might handles extrication, typically EMS (when appropriately geared up) is supposed to be inside the car assessing the patient. EMS should also be treating the patient, performing any life saving interventions as needed.
It continues to amaze me how many in EMS don't want to do any training with the FD for rescue situations, doesn't want to get dirty or get involved in stuff that doesn't involve being on the ambulance, and fights against wearing PPE that is issued to you to be worn for certain situations.
Remember, it's not always the EMS crews call, and it's not a matter of us not want to get training in extrication. Try telling our fire department that we should be in the vehicles (in appropriate PPE) during extrications, and they'll either laugh you out or tell you to gtfo their scene...
Some departments I'm sure allow the 3rd party EMS crews to be fully involved with extrications and other things, but you might want to consider how you phrase your words before you go accusing EMS crews of being lazy or shirking their responsibilities.
You should politely remind your fire departments that patient care and movement is the responsibility of the EMS crew. I prefer everyone work as a team, but bottom line, it is not just the Fire departments scene while there is a patient involved.
When all else fails, county commissioners hate it when words like "liability" start getting thrown around.
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Our fire department is EMS trained...EMT/medics. It's not my place to fight with them on scene, and I'm not going to, as it does nothing for pt care.
By your same line of reasoning, EMS crews should get turnout gear and scba's so we can go into buildings and rescue pts from structure fires?
Unless it's a fire based EMS crew, not gonna happen.
Don't flip what I said into an extreme example. I shouldn't have to state the obvious, but for the people that need warning labels, in the absence of an IDLH environment, if there is a patient on scene it is a medical scene first.
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CALEMT
The Other Guy/ Paramaybe?
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This is a completely opposite thought of what's going on. EMS isn't allowed into a IDLH (immediate danger to life and health) environment. We went from ems focusing on patient care in the vehicle on a extrication call to ems going interior on structure fires. You just can't compare the two. I get it bud, every ems service has their own relationship with the Fire dept. How it should be is fire primarily focus on extrication while ems focus on patient care in the vehicle. Some extrications go extended depending on the severity of the damage. Ems should imo be in the car if they have the proper gear i.e. Extrication gear.
Jim37F
Forum Deputy Chief
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I will say, even here with LACo, yeah extricate on itself I'd fire's job, but once the door is popped, roof cut, or simply one of the vast majority of our TCs where extrication isn't required, guess who fire expects to be there with either the gurney or board actually bringing the patient out of the car? So yeah, even though we don't have "extrication gear" or bunker or turnouts, just a yellow reflective 5.11 jacket (everyone calls a "brush" coat even though it really has nothing in common with fires wildcard brush gear lol) and a plastic blue helmet, we're supposed to wear those on all traffic collisions, fires, and other rescue type calls. (We're actually encouraged to where them to calls like GSW and stabbings to identify us as EMS vs Police or something like that lol)
CALEMT
The Other Guy/ Paramaybe?
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I'd much rather wear a plate carrier to shootings vs a reflective jacket.
Where's your sense of adventure? It's like a shooting gallery-shoot between the highly reflective lines!
Jim37F
Forum Deputy Chief
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Ensihoitaja
Forum Captain
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Hey, as long as you know where your neck sock thingies is, you're good, right?
But do you know where your towel is?
DrParasite
The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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I have never been told to GTFO a scene by a firefighter for doing my job..... Then again, if I was, I would have advised dispatch that although there is an entrapped person, we were released from the scene by captain smith from ABC fire department, and he stated he does not need us on the scene. Let them explain to their administration why they sent you home when you were trying to do your job.
But I should add that my fire crews respect me and the job I do; if yours don't, well, that's another topic..... Even if they don't know me as an individual, they respect the role I have in emergency scenes.
Whether the FD believes it or you disagree, that patient is your responsibility. That's why the side of the ambulance says emergency MEDICAL services. Have you ever been given a patient from the FD, who did something wrong, where the patient looked ****ty, and then they left that leaking bag of **** in your hands to deal with? If not, than lucky you, and your fire department has great medical providers, and you are just a transporting service, because they have done all the work for you. Most fire departments provide first responder services, and technical rescue; once EMS arrives on scene, the job of the "first responder" agency is to step back and let EMS doing their job. After all, a paramedic who does the job 100% of the time should be better than a firemedic or firefighter/EMT who does EMS less than 100% of the time. But again, your agency might be different.
Back to reality, there is no need for EMS to go into a burning building. You aren't going to do any patient care inside a house fire. You will do patient care at a rescue scene, where it isn't an IDLH. You can adequate assess the patient from inside the car, where you life isn't at stake. Please advise me how you are going to check a patient's pulse, to tell the FD they need to hurry up because if the patient isn't out in 2 minutes, it's going to be a fatality, if you aren't willing or able to get into the car and actually assess the patient?
BTW, at my last EMS job, I worked for a county EMS agency. We did not get into cars, we did not get involved in rescue scenes at all. We were not given PPE, and our written policy was to get the stretcher ready and have the FD (both career and volunteer, not all EMTs, and you never knew how many people would show up) bring the patient to us once they were freed. So I get it. I also get that it's poor patient care, delays the patient getting the services that they pay for, and white shirted people were working with administration to get us the tools to do the job right.
So I will reiterate what someone else said: extrication and rescue are patient centric operations. if you don't have EMS in the warm zone with proper PPE, than patient care is delayed, and the patient can have a preventable negative outcome.
But I should add that my fire crews respect me and the job I do; if yours don't, well, that's another topic..... Even if they don't know me as an individual, they respect the role I have in emergency scenes.
Whether the FD believes it or you disagree, that patient is your responsibility. That's why the side of the ambulance says emergency MEDICAL services. Have you ever been given a patient from the FD, who did something wrong, where the patient looked ****ty, and then they left that leaking bag of **** in your hands to deal with? If not, than lucky you, and your fire department has great medical providers, and you are just a transporting service, because they have done all the work for you. Most fire departments provide first responder services, and technical rescue; once EMS arrives on scene, the job of the "first responder" agency is to step back and let EMS doing their job. After all, a paramedic who does the job 100% of the time should be better than a firemedic or firefighter/EMT who does EMS less than 100% of the time. But again, your agency might be different.
Other than being one of the stupidest things I have heard, it's not as uncommon as you might think. Some police departments give their officers SCBAs for that very reason. And assuming you have the training, why not?
Back to reality, there is no need for EMS to go into a burning building. You aren't going to do any patient care inside a house fire. You will do patient care at a rescue scene, where it isn't an IDLH. You can adequate assess the patient from inside the car, where you life isn't at stake. Please advise me how you are going to check a patient's pulse, to tell the FD they need to hurry up because if the patient isn't out in 2 minutes, it's going to be a fatality, if you aren't willing or able to get into the car and actually assess the patient?
BTW, at my last EMS job, I worked for a county EMS agency. We did not get into cars, we did not get involved in rescue scenes at all. We were not given PPE, and our written policy was to get the stretcher ready and have the FD (both career and volunteer, not all EMTs, and you never knew how many people would show up) bring the patient to us once they were freed. So I get it. I also get that it's poor patient care, delays the patient getting the services that they pay for, and white shirted people were working with administration to get us the tools to do the job right.
So I will reiterate what someone else said: extrication and rescue are patient centric operations. if you don't have EMS in the warm zone with proper PPE, than patient care is delayed, and the patient can have a preventable negative outcome.
DrParasite
The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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I can think of several issues with both this concept and this image.......
EpiEMS
Forum Deputy Chief
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How often do EMS providers really need the extensive level of protection provided by extrication gear? It depends on your system and your systems' policies. Unless you're hanging out in cars while other personnel are doing extrications, it doesn't make sense for your system to pay for the extra PPE that you likely do not need (and even then, the PPE that you probably need is a bit less extensive than structural gear!). The same principle goes for body armor - if I'm staying in the cold zone, I probably don't need a helmet and vest. Now, reflective vests? Different story - we're pretty much all going to be on roadsides at some point...and they're cheap.
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Sounds like your agency doesn't have a very good relationship with your corresponding agencies.
If a fire crew blocked us from entering a vehicle to provide patient care it wouldn't end well for that fire officer unless there was an immediate threat to our lives. We provide medical care so they can focus on the rescue aspect of the call. Everyone has a specific job they specialize in.
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AtlasFlyer
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Dennhop and I work for the same agency. We have a really great relationship with the FD. I have yet to respond to a motor vehicle incident that we beat them in arriving onscene to (because they have a lot more stations than we do), and they get in there and start the initial patient care. The firefighters are all EMTs, some are medics. So they're just as qualified as I am to be doing patient care. We work together, it's not that they "block" us from taking care of patients, not at all. We don't step over them, trying to get in under their feet while they're doing extrication. We work together, not fighting over each other trying to 'stake our place'. Fire will often drive for us and many times I've had fire medics with us in the back as we all do whatever is necessary for patient care.
gotbeerz001
Forum Deputy Chief
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This is the Para-Dex line of NFPA compliant EMS outerwear. It is not made of turnout material but is cut resistant and has a moisture barrier.
The 5.11 rain coats I am issued by te ambo service would probably be NFPA compliant if they paid the fee to be tested. Alas...
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Jim37F
Forum Deputy Chief
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Our old coats they're currently still phasing out look similar to that, except they require an additional reflective vest worn on top of the coat