Aidey
Community Leader Emeritus
- 4,800
- 11
- 38
They got :censored::censored::censored::censored:ed royally. The IAFF threw them under the bus in order to save fire jobs.
Last edited by a moderator:
Unions for EMS
- Thread starter hoisanjai
- Start date
mm505
Forum Crew Member
- 50
- 1
- 0
Most unions work the same way, no matter who they represent. I was a union steward for CWA 3205 for a few years. Then we went on strike. I walked the picket line but also was able to support myself as a paramedic and worked all except 3 days out of 4 weeks. You only received strike pay IF you or anyone in your HOUSEHOLD was unemployed! Even if my son was making money, I would not receive strike benefits. Also, everyone on the "union staff", drew 100% of their pay as they were on official union business (even if they didn't do jack squat during strike) and it was authorized. Never mind people who were only living on a single paycheck from their spouse. The clincher to me resigning was that after we returned to work - without drawing any paycheck from AT&T - we were REQUIRED to pay union dues for those 4 weeks we were out! That royally chaffed my butt!
The good thing about living in the South, we are mostly all in Right To Work states which means if we do not want to belong to a union, we do not have to and we DO NOT have to pay union dues either.
People say that if a truck isn't right, or a boss is a pain or they make you pay for everything, I wouldn't worry, because those services will be going belly up when your truck breaks down (either on it's own or on purpose) or you quit because of bad management. These bad services are also the ones who hire the EMT/Paramedic of questionable stature that I wouldn't want touching me.
Patient care is our business. Think long and hard about it. Do you want the ability to be able to do what you were trained for - helping patients and saving lives - or do you want to work by strict guidelines and rules/regulations that can affect the care you give someone.
Just my $0.02 worth as I've been on both sides.
The good thing about living in the South, we are mostly all in Right To Work states which means if we do not want to belong to a union, we do not have to and we DO NOT have to pay union dues either.
People say that if a truck isn't right, or a boss is a pain or they make you pay for everything, I wouldn't worry, because those services will be going belly up when your truck breaks down (either on it's own or on purpose) or you quit because of bad management. These bad services are also the ones who hire the EMT/Paramedic of questionable stature that I wouldn't want touching me.
Patient care is our business. Think long and hard about it. Do you want the ability to be able to do what you were trained for - helping patients and saving lives - or do you want to work by strict guidelines and rules/regulations that can affect the care you give someone.
Just my $0.02 worth as I've been on both sides.
NYMedic828
Forum Deputy Chief
- 2,094
- 3
- 36
FDNY has a separate union for EMS and fire.
God how I wish our union was one in the same with fire's. They get EVERYTHING they want and the city loves them.
We get the leftovers.
God how I wish our union was one in the same with fire's. They get EVERYTHING they want and the city loves them.
We get the leftovers.
Aidey said:
Are you sure about that? If there is no respect for EMS in your area, that doesn't really change with the union. EMS needs to start campaigns to build public support. Then and only then will the politicians follow.
Make EMS week a large, public celebration instead of just hospitals giving gifts to medics!
Last edited by a moderator:
JPINFV
Gadfly
- 12,681
- 197
- 63
Can't you still "promote" to the fire side anyways? After all, why turn down a "promotion"?
JPINFV
Gadfly
- 12,681
- 197
- 63
Just wait for your local fire department to thing that they can use your money to buy shiny fire engines. I mean do your job better
JPINFV
Gadfly
- 12,681
- 197
- 63
Well, it doesn't help that while EMS is busy doing their jobs, the fire department gets to have a white hat hamming it up for the TV channels. "Yep, lots of people injured at this accident, but we did a brave job saving them by parking our truck in the way and letting EMS work. Yep, we're heroes!
Again, I think it depends on the jurisdiction.
Where I live, 911 EMS is a publicly run third service. Each district has a PEO, or Public Education Officer, that does media interviews. If there is a car crash where someone was injured, they'll be the ones in front of the cameras. (If someone died, its the cops.) The only times you ever really see Fire on the 6 o'clock news is when there's an actual.... (gasp!) fire.
All that said, I think the responsibility still falls on EMS to make themselves get the recognition from the public for what they do. Its much harder when you have a variety of private services, but still doable. If that means having a media-trained medic that you can call on scene to elbow the battalion chief out from in front of the cameras, so be it.
- 7,881
- 2,846
- 113
The flip side being that most EMS agencies do not send a supervisor to most calls. Most of the time EMS has no use for supervisors on scene, but if you want to get on TV you better send someone with rank that can get in front of the camera. Obviously many places don't have the resources to do so, but lots do and they don't for whatever reason.
It's a cultural difference the fire service and EMS to send an officer to most incidents, but it has paid many dividends for them, with little downside.
Aidey
Community Leader Emeritus
- 4,800
- 11
- 38
Google Kansas City MAST and IAFF. MAST and KCFD were two separate IAFF branches. MAST was 3rd service non profit. The BLS FD was facing budget cuts and argued that MAST should be combined with them, so none of the FFs would lose their jobs. The IAFF backed the FD and the employees of MAST ended up with no say in the matter.
I should also add that MAST's public image was probably way better than the KCFD's at the time. KCFD has a nasty habit of killing and seriously injuring people in fire truck crashes.
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't doubt it. My comment was directed at NYMedic828, I was using your post to strengthen my point.
NYMedic828
Forum Deputy Chief
- 2,094
- 3
- 36
That is the sole reason I even work for EMS.
I would be in a classroom otherwise. Once I get those turnout pants and two 24s a week shift il be back to school.
DrParasite
The fire extinguisher is not just for show
- 6,289
- 2,162
- 113
with all due respect, but there are quite a few problems with your statement, as well as some inaccuracies.
Most larger EMS systems DO have supervisors. some even send them to major calls. MVAs, fires, majors traumas are all grounds for supervisor dispatches. But in most cases, agencies don't want a field supervisor speaking to the press.
Watch the news about a big fire, who is speaking? If you ever watch the news, it's rare to see a Captain or Lieutenant speaking to the media; it's almost always a Chief-level officer (BC/DC/COD). Watch the news about a crime, who is speaking? it's not the road sergeant. It's a white shirt, Captain or Lieutenant, who are typically office personnel.
EMS (typically) doesn't have a dedicated Public information/educator Officer, who has those relationships with the press. someone who the media knows, who can stick around major scenes until the media shows up (which is where many EMS supervisors fail, because once their units clear the scene, they go back available to handle their other supervisory duties). Not only that, but since most EMS higher ups are soooooo unnecessarily scared of patient confidentiality violations, they seem to think that no news is good news, and go our of their way to not provide any useful information to the press.
A good PIO is 24/7 able to give statements to the press, is available 24/7 for press questions, and is responsible for all PR and public education. This person is known by the press, and already had relationships with local news agencies. It's a hard job, and an important job that most EMS agencies don't budget for, because they think they don't need it. After all, they never needed it before, so why do they need it now, in a time when budgets are being slashed and call volumes are rising? but that's off topic, and should belong in it's own thread.
Lozenger19
Forum Crew Member
- 63
- 0
- 0
I'm not looking to start an argument!!!
I'm a union steward & think that unions are great for the workplace. I've seen good things that the union has done.
Yes.... There are some bad things, but good out weighs bad.
That's just my opinion
I'm a union steward & think that unions are great for the workplace. I've seen good things that the union has done.
Yes.... There are some bad things, but good out weighs bad.
That's just my opinion
- 7,881
- 2,846
- 113
With all do respect perhaps consider that not every FD and EMS service works exactly like the way it does in your New Jersey kingdom. I've seen plenty of line officers on TV or interviewed in the paper in both Massachusetts and Colorado.
Where I work in Colorado (second largest city in the state), every fire officer receives media training. The PIO doesn't show up until a third alarm, so it is actually quite common to see a lieutenant or captain on TV. They are proactive about speaking to the media and keeping the public informed regardless of incident type incident whether it be a fire, rescue, or medical. This has paid massive dividends in terms of public opinion, people here like their fire department and appreciate their openness and approachability and have so far not made any drastic cuts to service.
Unions are one way to fight for jobs, but that job is made a lot easier if the public already holds the department in a high regard. In this case, the department's media policy has helped to keep them in a positive light in the media. EMS could do the same thing. You don't need a PIO to get your message out, you need to ensure that your ranking field staff won't make a fool of themselves on TV and that does not cost much. Boston EMS does this quite well, if you see a BEMS member on TV, odds are it's one of the field supervisors or the shift commander, not an office person. I would not be at all surprised if they received some tips in handling the media, they do a great job.
You're right, many agencies cannot budget for a PIO, but when times get tough we absolutely need to do a better job selling ourselves to the public while also avoiding being perceived as hiding behind unions. Given the nature of EMS work we are all a fairly reactive bunch in all facets of the job, but this one place where as an industry we need to get out in front of the issue. Unions are often helpful in this cause, but they are not the only avenue.
If you sat on street corners all day and night and running your tail off, you'd understand. FDNY FF's have a better pension with less years to retirement, better pay, and a career ladder. They also don't have to show up every day for eight hours, and also get held over (mandated) a lot. In addition, after going fire, you can still work NYC 911 EMS as a per diem medic for one of the hospitals. It's almost like creating your own dual role job.
JPINFV
Gadfly
- 12,681
- 197
- 63
Oh, I understand that FDNY abuses their EMTs and paramedics. That doesn't mean I have to agree with it.
It's NYC. No one really cares about EMS until they have to call, which may never happen.The police and fire dapartments are much more established, since they've been around for much longer than EMS. Their membership and Unions are much larger, as well. Despite that, police and fire really aren't paid that well, considering that it's NYC, and the cost of living is high. EMS does even worse, and they have to work eight hour shifts like the cops do.
This is why NYMedic828 is only using FDNY EMS as a stepping stone - they do it to themselves by offering so little. That is why I left the NYC 911 system and went to a well paying dual role Fire/EMS department. After I graduated medic school, I started the hiring process for FDNY EMS. At around this time, a former co-worker from my hospital visited up from Virginia, and told us about the department that I currently work for. I ditched the process and left NY less than a year later. I now work ten days a month, with a 45 min commute, with an easily affordable 5B 2 1/2 Bath 3200SF Colonial, and a real career ladder. FDNY EMS dosen't offer that.
For all the corruption, lack of Unions result in $8-$12/hr EMS careers with poor working conditions.
Anyone ever think of an easy way to get around the negative public perception of a department that gives pensions without employee contribution? Simply raise the employee's salary, and give that all back as an employer match with a slightly reduced multiplier. That looks much better to the public, and if the pension system becomes insovent, you'll have legal ground to stand on, since you've been paying into the system.
If you're only making $8-$12/hr and being asked to kick in 7-10% for your pension on top of that, you're getting ripped off. A Union may not change that, but it will certainly never change without a Union. That presents a conundrum, of course, but if it were me, and I had to work 56 hours a week to make 30 grand, I would take a change with organizing to change that for the better. What are they going to do?
If you're only making $8-$12/hr and being asked to kick in 7-10% for your pension on top of that, you're getting ripped off. A Union may not change that, but it will certainly never change without a Union. That presents a conundrum, of course, but if it were me, and I had to work 56 hours a week to make 30 grand, I would take a change with organizing to change that for the better. What are they going to do?
I don't agree with it either. That's why my cousins left to work for one of the local hospitals, and that's why I went out of state for a well paying fire based system. Otherwise, I'd have went back to school and earned a medical degree of some sort. EMS without organization or fire based funding is only a short term job prospect for many people, or a long term gig for those that have no better options. I suppose one could relocate to Canada, NZ, or Australia for a better EMS career, like a few on this forum have inquired about.