Trooper vs. Paramedic

[medic417]

Did we watch the same video?

He pulled in to the oncoming lane of traffic to pass by a car that had pulled over for the officer.

No he was in the road and has a much heavier bigger piece of equipment than the car was. As soon as he passed the car he pulled over. Plus no matter how you look at it 10 seconds to get someones attn and them to get moved over is by no means hindering an officer running code.

The cop ran up on him on a blind hill with no safe way to pass.

As to weaving in and out of traffic comment you made earlier, no we don't do that. If my partner attempts it they are quickly reminded it is not allowed. Happens again they are fired.

And as to your mentioning the officer telling passengers how to get a gun so if something happens, does that mean you feel any untrained person can pick up a gun and properly defend themselves?

 

[JPINFV]

I guess he could have slammed on his breaks to stop (I won't argue against anyone suggesting that the ambulance was following the car too closely provided that it was acknowledged that the cruiser was too close to the ambulance), but that would have definitely caused the cruiser to swerve, if not collide with the ambulance. Still, if those few seconds are what that officer considers a "failure to yield" then that really is stretching it a bit.

 

[Shishkabob]

You asked what happens when a shootout ensues when they have a ride-along... I told you what they tell you at the beginning.


It's been proven that people with little to know experience with firearms can't hit crap (scientific word, I know), but I'd much rather have the option of having a firearm if for some reason I am not able to flee and someone just killed a cop and is walking towards me.


It's rare, but not unheard of for an officer to be shot infront of a ride-along, or both the officer and ride-along get killed. If my life's in danger, you bet your butt I want all the tools available.

(But lets stop that conversation before it gets in to a "Well maybe they should stop ride-alongs" argument)

 

[medic417]

but I'd much rather have the option of having a firearm if for some reason I am not able to flee and someone just killed a cop and is walking towards me.


It's rare, but not unheard of for an officer to be shot infront of a ride-along, or both the officer and ride-along get killed. If my life's in danger, you bet your butt I want all the tools available.

So I will take that as your support for the right of EMS to carry a concealed firearm.

 

[ffemt8978]

Let's not turn this into another EMS Firearms debate.

 

[medic417]

Let's not turn this into another EMS Firearms debate.

LOL, but it is the natural evolution of the subject.

 

[Shishkabob]

So I will take that as your support for the right of EMS to carry a concealed firearm.

I was the very first reply to that thread...


But to make it easy;

LEOs get guns, Firefighters get axes, what do we get?

"If you don't stay back, I'll open my OB kit and get my sterilized scalpel!"

 

[Ridryder911]

Let's clear up some things. The EMS unit only less than 10 seconds to pull over. The trooper was in fault for not running Code 3 (L/S) rather just with lights only (state violation unless for armed robbery, etc.). Also, he was too close to an emergency vehicle to be seen; remember the old adage .. if we can't see you ? OHP is supposed to be an authority on all transportation modes.. hence he violated the law as coming to close to an emergency vehicle (no matter with or without running hot).

He had a passenger. Sorry, unless you are a trained, bonded, CLEET authorized officer; you have NO business riding along. OHP is well known for their vehicle maneuvers and speeds >100 mph as well as the tragic events that might occur from high speed chases and possible altercations. Do I want to have to pay for her injuries or harm.. hell NO!
In Oklahoma the laws pertaining emergency driving is for all EVO's. "Must use safety at all times, so that lives, property is not endangered." Sorry, passing on a curve in a no passing zone (I know that area, very well) is not.

The Trooper touched the Paramedic first, hence he was informed by the Paramedic that he had in fact just violated the law. Sorry, no probable cause, no need in doing so. He has NO legal authority as long as their is a patient within the EMS.

Let's face it, the Trooper is history. No matter what. No other OHP will want to be associated with his reputation. Chances are he might get a drivers examiners job, but I doubt it.

If you have not seen Maurice White, CCEMT/P FOX news interview (No Where to Hide) please watch. He explains everything in great detail and this was before the release of the dash cam.
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video...//www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,526128,00.html

There is NO abandonment. I have discussed with the OSDH which regulates EMS and their attorneys. Not even a consideration of it. Sorry, it just doesn't meet any of the criteria.

Alike I said, the Trooper has scheduled a press conference on Monday in which I imagine he will apologize and probably resign (if he is smart). Then the personal litigation's can occur and yes they will win.

R/r 911

 

[HotelCo]

Let's clear up some things. The EMS unit only less than 10 seconds to pull over. The trooper was in fault for not running Code 3 (L/S) rather just with lights only (state violation unless for armed robbery, etc.).

On the dash cam video, I heard sirens during the first encounter with the ambulance. They probably didn't hear it due to highway speeds. But, it was there.

 

[Shishkabob]

Let's clear up some things. The EMS unit only less than 10 seconds to pull over. The trooper was in fault for not running Code 3 (L/S) rather just with lights only (state violation unless for armed robbery, etc.).

R/r 911

Rid, do me a favor.


Watch the video, first pass of the ambulance. Top middle portion, you'll see the letters "LS" This means "Lights/Siren". If you turn on your speakers, you can also hear sirens blaring. Now, for the second part where he pulls the ambulance over for the violation, yes, only lights. Even more so, I have yet to see a single officer, EVER, get disciplined for using only their lights to pull over a vehicle on a residential road.

Add on top of that, you can't possibly say to me you've never had just your lights on, and no siren, at some point throughout your entire career.

Also, check your time. The ambulance first comes in to view at 8 seconds. The ambulance passes the civilian at 28 seconds. The ambulance doesn't pull over for the officer until 33 seconds. That's 23 seconds more than your proposed, and wrong, 10 second claim.

Also, he was too close to an emergency vehicle to be seen; remember the old adage .. if we can't see you ? OHP is supposed to be an authority on all transportation modes.. hence he violated the law as coming to close to an emergency vehicle (no matter with or without running hot).

The cop car didn't just spawn out of mid air. He was driving up to the ambulance.

Again, if the car infront of the ambulance saw/heard the cop even with a big ambulance behind him, pulled over, and the ambulance passed him on the other lane, the EMT has no excuse.

He had a passenger. Sorry, unless you are a trained, bonded, CLEET authorized officer; you have NO business riding along.

Thank god it's not up to you. I think every person in emergency services should do AT LEAST one ride along with the other services. Fire and EMS with cops, and cops with Fire or EMS.

In Oklahoma the laws pertaining emergency driving is for all EVO's. "Must use safety at all times, so that lives, property is not endangered." Sorry, passing on a curve in a no passing zone (I know that area, very well) is not.

Explain the ambulance passing the car in a no passing zone then. There we NO brake lights AT ALL until the OHP started passing the ambulance. The ambulance didn't slow down a single bit when the car in front of him abruptly pulled to the side of the road... and you're calling the cop unsafe?

The Trooper touched the Paramedic first, hence he was informed by the Paramedic that he had in fact just violated the law.

Look at 3:00. You can clearly see the medic push the officer. The DA, who I'm quite confident knows a heck of a lot about criminal law, even said that the medic assaulted the cop. Assault has always been, and will always be, the first touch, not the second.

Let's face it, the Trooper is history. No matter what. No other OHP will want to be associated with his reputation. Chances are he might get a drivers examiners job, but I doubt it.

I hope not. The medic broke plenty more laws then you are saying the OHP did. If the officer gets fired, the medic should be terminated with extreme prejudice as well.




It really baffels me on how you're missing all the wrong that the EMS crew did, and only zoning in on the officer.

 

[amberdt03]

The trooper was in fault for not running Code 3 (L/S) rather just with lights only (state violation unless for armed robbery, etc.).


R/r 911

uhhh you might want to watch that video again, cause i'm pretty sure he was running lights and sirens.

 

[fortsmithman]

I would like to clarify, that Maurice the Paramedic has decribed that he saw a passenger in the OHP car (the troopers wife)

Responding Lights and sirens to a call with your wife in the passenger are grounds for suspension in many law enforcement agencies. The only way his wife could travel in the unit is if she were a fully sworn member of his agency. If she were a member then she and her husband would not be assigned to the same unit this is due to the fact that many law enforcement agencies prohibit married couples from serving in the same vehicle. I don't think the trooper should be fired. He should be suspended for a couple of weeks and maybe compelled to do a few ride a longs in an ambulance. That way he would get a better understanding of EMS.

 

[VentMedic]

We also don't respond to police emergencies. The hospital is very different then some sort of police emergency.

It doesn't matter where you are going to. You still take the same risks on the road with the L&S. And, as from the thread I posted earlier about seatbelts, someone probably won't be restrained in the truck putting not only that person in danger but also all in the back.

In this situation, it was very lucky the ambulance was not running L&S since there were members of the adult patients family in the truck as well as a convoy of 4 or 5 cars following close behind as per the Paramedic Maurice in his report.

PDs have civilian ride-alongs all the time for a variety of reasons. On this forum some are just making assumptions that everything the LEO did was wrong just because they are siding totally with EMS. This subject has become similar to arguing for your favorite football team and ignoring any good qualities of the other team's players.

 

[Shishkabob]

Responding Lights and sirens to a call with your wife in the passenger are grounds for suspension in many law enforcement agencies. The only way his wife could travel in the unit is if she were a fully sworn member of his agency.

Wait what?


Want to provide some fact based evidence?

 

[ffemt8978]

Wait what?


Want to provide some fact based evidence?

This is NOT the forum to discuss LE ride alongs while driving with lights and sirens. Keep it on topic.

 

[HotelCo]

It doesn't matter where you are going to. You still take the same risks on the road with the L&S. And, as from the thread I posted earlier about seatbelts, someone probably won't be restrained in the truck putting not only that person in danger but also all in the back.

My point wasn't so much the L&S, as where they were going. I should have made that more clear in my original post. What if he was called to an active shooter and his wife was in the car?

 

[VentMedic]

Responding Lights and sirens to a call with your wife in the passenger are grounds for suspension in many law enforcement agencies. The only way his wife could travel in the unit is if she were a fully sworn member of his agency. If she were a member then she and her husband would not be assigned to the same unit this is due to the fact that many law enforcement agencies prohibit married couples from serving in the same vehicle. I don't think the trooper should be fired. He should be suspended for a couple of weeks and maybe compelled to do a few ride a longs in an ambulance. That way he would get a better understanding of EMS.

A woman riding as a passenger in Martin's cruiser at the time has been identified as his wife.

West did not know the woman's name and said having a spouse in a car does not violate OHP policy.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/arti...rticleid=20090613_12_A1_OKLAHO939517&allcom=1

 

[Shishkabob]

Vent beat me.


Delete por favor?

 

[VentMedic]

My point wasn't so much the L&S, as where they were going. I should have made that more clear in my original post. What if he was called to an active shooter and his wife was in the car?

That would be a known incident and provisions could be made just as they are for all called where civilian ride-alongs are concerned. As well, a LEO is not going to put himself immediately in harm's way. They also are trained for scene safety and probably much more so than some in EMS who rush in.

 

[medic417]

That would be a known incident and provisions could be made just as they are for all called where civilian ride-alongs are concerned. As well, a LEO is not going to put himself immediately in harm's way. They also are trained for scene safety and probably much more so than some in EMS who rush in.

Obviously he missed that class since he was responding hot while his wife was with him, to an officer needing help.