TP-C, CCP-C, CPP-C ,TR-C, EM-C, EMT-T,

DrParasite

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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IBSC has several -C certifications
American Academy of Event Medicine has the EM-C

CONTOMS runs an EMT-T course

there is even an WEMT course for wilderness EMTs

Are any of these courses worthwhile? Does any employer actually care about them? I would think if your employer wanted to send to you to one, you should go an obtain the "certification" but should anyone go on their own?
 
CCP-C is equivalent to FP-C which are required to work for any CAMTS agency. The rest, are good for experience only, unless you stumble into a job that requires one. A medical director for one of my local agencies has EMT-T, as he's on the tactical team. I've taken AWLS (Advanced Wilderness Life Support) and it was okay...

These classes have very targeted audiences, and if you're not looking to specalize in one of these areas, you could probably pass.
 
The IBSC certifications are required to receive state endorsement as a critical care or community paramedic for the state of Colorado. One other critical care certification is also accepted (I don't recall who issues it). Our agency looks very favorably on those that already have those certifications in place when hiring.
 
I took EMT-T on my own and thought it was an awesome course. Most of it was TEMS specific, obviously, however a lot of it was great practical knowledge for trauma care and active shooter situations that is beneficial for non-tactical first responders. Biggest hindrance of doing it without your employer is the cost of the "required" gear if you don't already own it along with the course cost. Can add up quickly.
 
A lot of people view the CCP-C as a redundant version of the FP-C. Having taken both, I don’t know that I completely agree.

Yes, there are no flight questions with the CCP-C. But, they’re replaced with anything and everything in the latest CAMTS guidelines, pediatric/ neonatal questions, and/ or that many more “non-flight” questions.

IMO, that makes this test a much more critical care based and in-depth. Many of the flight questions are simple, memory-based questions—or what some people would consider “giveaways”.

The IBSC’s breakdown of each test’s questions is accurate, however, when taking the CCP-C exam, it seemed like it was a bit more challenging.
 
Let me ask a clarifying question (since many are going down a different rabbit hole than I expected). Are these courses worthwhile to get if they aren't related to your current job?

For example, if you aren't on a TAC team, is EMT-T/TP-C/TR-C worthwhile? more importantly, will it help you get a TEMS job, or should you get the job first, and then they will sent you to tactical class?

If you want to become an event medic, is the Event Medic - Certification worthwhile? Will a potential employer look at it and hire you, or hire you and send you to that class if they feel it will benefit you?

the CP-C certification is for community paramedics. If your agency doesn't have a CP program, is it worthwhile? if your agency does have a CP program, will they fast track you into a CP spot if you have the cert, or will they hire you as a regular paramedic and then send you to class?

If your agency values "Critical Care Paramedic - Certified", but your don't provide CCT services between hospitals, what benefits does it give to the agency?

I'm thinking about taking the EM-C course, because I enjoy working special events. I doubt my employer will pay for it, because "we never needed it before, so why would we need it now?" and that logic is inundated in many agencies. Even worse is the "you can take whatever classes you want, as long as it occurs on your own time, and it doesn't cost us anything."

Hence the whole ancillary EMS certification discussion, often produced by for profit companies and only sometimes recognized by state entities....
 
DrParasite said:
Let me ask a clarifying question (since many are going down a different rabbit hole than I expected). Are these courses worthwhile to get if they aren't related to your current job?
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No.

Unless you are planning on seeking gainful employment at an agency that recognizes, and/ or requires them they are—to me—useless.

They will not make you a proficient “specialty provider”. And yes, to a degree the IBSC and CAMTS seem to be in bed with one another.
 
DrParasite said:
Let me ask a clarifying question (since many are going down a different rabbit hole than I expected). Are these courses worthwhile to get if they aren't related to your current job?
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Basically what @VentMonkey said. If you don't need it for a specific job you already have it want, they were off little value.

For example, my state has a separate community paramedic license, but you do not need CP-C, therefore I would not get it on my own. There's a good chance I could convince my agency to pay for it for me if I wanted, but I don't.

There are so many "specialty" certifications, it's impossible to know which ones would you've you a potential leg up. For example my agency didn't use EMT-T, we used TECC-LEFR, which is a version of TECC designed for law enforcement and first responders specifically.
 
DrParasite said:
Let me ask a clarifying question (since many are going down a different rabbit hole than I expected). Are these courses worthwhile to get if they aren't related to your current job?
Click to expand...
I guess that depends on the agency culture. Here, if you go get a cert and have the wherewithal to develop a program related to it, you'll be empowered to do so.

For example, if you aren't on a TAC team, is EMT-T/TP-C/TR-C worthwhile? more importantly, will it help you get a TEMS job, or should you get the job first, and then they will sent you to tactical class?

If you want to become an event medic, is the Event Medic - Certification worthwhile? Will a potential employer look at it and hire you, or hire you and send you to that class if they feel it will benefit you?

the CP-C certification is for community paramedics. If your agency doesn't have a CP program, is it worthwhile? if your agency does have a CP program, will they fast track you into a CP spot if you have the cert, or will they hire you as a regular paramedic and then send you to class?

If your agency values "Critical Care Paramedic - Certified", but your don't provide CCT services between hospitals, what benefits does it give to the agency?

I'm thinking about taking the EM-C course, because I enjoy working special events. I doubt my employer will pay for it, because "we never needed it before, so why would we need it now?" and that logic is inundated in many agencies. Even worse is the "you can take whatever classes you want, as long as it occurs on your own time, and it doesn't cost us anything."

Hence the whole ancillary EMS certification discussion, often produced by for profit companies and only sometimes recognized by state entities....
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If you want to develop these programs within your agency and you get the certification, you have a jumping off point that likely few others have. Want to start a special events division because of a perceived need? Probably good to have some background in it first. Perhaps the best way to excel at your job is to make yourself less replaceable. Owning your own program is one of the best ways to do that. Even at large metro fire departments here locally, line guys have gone out and taken these classes on their own and come back to the department to develop them further to include rolling TEMS principles out to not just the TEMS station and developing a solid community paramedic program.

Additionally, the education you get in the CP and FP programs will no doubt make you a better paramedic even if you can't practice to the full extent of your new scope. We have several people here that have their FP-C despite us not being a true CCT service and those people are frankly better paramedics than most. It isn't so much that they have the cert, it that's they had the drive to get it and keep it and that shows.
 
I think it depends. The critical care course has definitely changed how I've looked at, managed, or simply understood what's going on with some of my recent sick patients. We do have CCT medics, but it doesn't currently add anything to the 911 side, although I'd like to see that change.

I'm not gonna go take a test for any of the tactical medic certs, but I would take TCCC simply because of how regularly I have ran shootings this year along with a lot of other forms of trauma. Just like with critical care, I think the added knowledge has value.

I wouldn't necessarily chase cert after cert, but things like CCP or TCCC that are directly applicable to my every day? Yeah, I think it's worth it.
 
I can speak to the CP-C. It was valuable for me, as we are negotiating with some outside parties on providing MIH. It simply gave me a bit of cache when I was sitting at the table. Worth anything else? Not really.
 
I use to do SAR and have taken WEMT a few times. The quality of WEMT courses varied wildly. The good courses did one really great thing for me: they taught me to think way outside the box. I’ve done a lot of things where I’ve used makeshift gear now when I didn’t have something and it would’ve delayed treatment or transport if I hadn’t. The good courses don’t teach you what to do, they teach you how to think outside the box (but within your protocol) in that moment.

I am interested in taking a CP-C prep course (Mobile Integrated Healthcare), just to put together the bigger picture about chronic management and home care of patients who live lives with very serious issues that can be managed in a way other than treating it as an emergency. I am also interested in CP-C because I see potential there for having a future EMS provider role akin to a PA/NP. Last year I took CE on the possibility of utilizing a Specialist Paramedic Practitioner role within a 911 system. It is a complicated, but fantastic idea.
 
If you work for an employer that will toss money at you to take educational classes and obtain certs then go for it, but as other's have already stated alot of them have no benefit, certainly the tactical classes unless you're in a TEMS team role. Even so most of the EMS provider's on TEMS teams have a very limited function on said teams, and MOST, not all, are in a warm/cold zone just awaiting for something to go down. There are some very progressive teams which arm the TEMS provider and they function in a stack, but those are very few and far between. Classes and certs are great, but there is no substitute for real world experience. I know plenty of people who have taken a few classes and have some tactical cert who think they're Chris Kyle (both EMS provider's and LEO's) or tactical timmy yet can't shoot for s*it on a practical shooting course. In those roles you're expected to be a gun fighter first and bandaid man second. Not exactly the thought process of most EMS provider's.

As far as the critical care certifications. I don't carry any cert that isn't required by my service to maintain my job, mainly because I have to pay to maintain them and we already have alot that is required. I maintain my FP-C, but have since let my CCEMT-P and PNCCT drop. If it's a class and is enhancing your knowledge great (which CCEMT-P and PNCCT are, and I would encourage people to take these classes first over the FP-C or CCP-C exams). Otherwise the certification is just a way to show a certain level of knowledge and experience and at some point they become redundant. I always laugh when I go to conferences and people have FP-C, CCP-C, EMT-T, RN, BSN, MSN, CFRN, CEN, CCRN etc and give one of the worst lectures or are awful at public speaking. All the credentials in the world doesn't back up a lack of experience, and in my opinion I don't need a ton of alphabet following my name, which I likely am paying to maintain, to prove I know XYZ. I believe your resume, experience, and care you provide should demonstrate those things already. Experienced people can also tell who is the real deal vs. who is a good test taker.
 
CANMAN said:
If you work for an employer that will toss money at you to take educational classes and obtain certs then go for it, but as other's have already stated alot of them have no benefit, certainly the tactical classes unless you're in a TEMS team role. Even so most of the EMS provider's on TEMS teams have a very limited function on said teams, and MOST, not all, are in a warm/cold zone just awaiting for something to go down. There are some very progressive teams which arm the TEMS provider and they function in a stack, but those are very few and far between. Classes and certs are great, but there is no substitute for real world experience. I know plenty of people who have taken a few classes and have some tactical cert who think they're Chris Kyle (both EMS provider's and LEO's) or tactical timmy yet can't shoot for s*it on a practical shooting course. In those roles you're expected to be a gun fighter first and bandaid man second. Not exactly the thought process of most EMS provider's.

As far as the critical care certifications. I don't carry any cert that isn't required by my service to maintain my job, mainly because I have to pay to maintain them and we already have alot that is required. I maintain my FP-C, but have since let my CCEMT-P and PNCCT drop. If it's a class and is enhancing your knowledge great (which CCEMT-P and PNCCT are, and I would encourage people to take these classes first over the FP-C or CCP-C exams). Otherwise the certification is just a way to show a certain level of knowledge and experience and at some point they become redundant. I always laugh when I go to conferences and people have FP-C, CCP-C, EMT-T, RN, BSN, MSN, CFRN, CEN, CCRN etc and give one of the worst lectures or are awful at public speaking. All the credentials in the world doesn't back up a lack of experience, and in my opinion I don't need a ton of alphabet following my name, which I likely am paying to maintain, to prove I know XYZ. I believe your resume, experience, and care you provide should demonstrate those things already. Experienced people can also tell who is the real deal vs. who is a good test taker.
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Bingo!

I got the FP-C prior to getting hired as a HEMS medic, and I believe it helped me get hired both via the entrance exams and in showing I was dedicated and driven to succeed.

Once hired it was a requirement to maintain, so there’s that answer. I have maintained my FP-C and NR-P (but not my NRP... lol) because I still intend to moonlight as a flight medic when I am a PA.

To the OP, regarding event medicine cert... that sounds like a money grab. I’d say it’s a waste of time. As a regular EMT & then medic I was doing large scale events in SoCal and Vegas... just due to the company having those contracts. No one had an additional cert, which leads me to believe it’s a scam by some company in your AO.
 
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Off topic, I agree with Canman on the alphabet soup name bs...

Seems the more letters people put out there when it’s not necessary, the more full of **** the person actually is.
 
That’s why I have a BS in EMS. No...really. I do.
 
SandpitMedic said:
Off topic, I agree with Canman on the alphabet soup name bs...

Seems the more letters people put out there when it’s not necessary, the more full of **** the person actually is.
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Maybe, maybe not. If the lecture is about diabetes and they’re citing that they are an EMT-T, then yes, I completely agree.

However, if they are saying that they are a certified nurse specialist in endocrinology and a Paramedic and a critica care paramedic and a board certified Community Paramedic, then that gives a lot of insight into the areas they are knowledgeable about. It shows that they should understand how their topic applies to various population groups.

I think what is much more likely is that when you take hundreds of good CE classes throughout your career, the best ones are often just a FF/EMT-P who has insight into a particular topic. The specialists with a long list of postnominals is expected to be an expert and is fine at it and you gain something but it is not memorable. What really sticks with you though, are the supposed experts who suck. Just yesterday, my boss said something like, we get thank you notes from 1% of the people who we do a good job with, but we get angry notes from 100% of the people we do a bad job with. I think it is something along those lines. We remember all of the idiots who have a long list of certifications but give a terrible presentation, but we forget a lot of the ones who we expect to be an expert on a topic and give a good presentation.

The other thing that colors our perceptions is that unlike medicine and nursing, most of our additional EMS specialty certifications denote lateral knowledge rather than depth of knowledge. There are extremely few people who do EMS full-time and have an EMS or medically based PhD.
 
At the end of the day, these are accessories to the basic certifications and "revenue" generating opportunities for the organizations that provide the certification. This phenomenon is not limited to EMS. It seems as though there is an endless stock of financing for this sort of thing and I'd challenge anyone to show a genuine need for most of it.

When the revenue stream dries up, I think we'll see a lot of this stuff go away and we'll go back to what we've always done which is give seminars/weekend meetings on subspecialty areas or just OJT and be done with it.
 
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