The future of EMS

Status
Not open for further replies.
F

FlameMedic

Forum Ride Along
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I've been a firefighter for 3 years and I must say I like the trend I'm starting to see. I've read numerous posts on here about how the fire service should keep their hands off of the EMS "Profession." Well I got news for you, it is not a "profession," it's an occupation. If you think that raising the education requirements is going to scare us away then you have another thing coming! The only way EMS will be a "profession" will be if it is ran by professionals. What I currently see in my city is a bunch of wrinkled up duffel bags who can barely step into their ambulance due to their elephantiasis legs and their pants down around their knees. I know that not every EMS service is like this but seems to be the trend here in the midwest. Also, why is that a fireman is instructing a paramedic on how to properly place a blood pressure cuff on a patients arm? Why is a fireman instructing a paramedic not to give D-50 rectally? Hey, maybe that rhythm on the monitor is a paced rhythm and not V-tach, but you shock them anyway. I personally find it embarrassing to even be on scene with some of these paramedics. One thing the fire service can provide to the EMS community is a sense of professionalism, this is currently non-existent Raising the education requirements is not going to eliminate fire from EMS, it's only going to result in less paramedics. I think Florida has figured out the problem and found a solution. They have found a very proficient way to provide quality patient care in a timely manner by using fire-based EMS. When it's all said and done, Private EMS has no one to blame but themselves. You nickled and dimed, you continued to hired poor paramedics, and now you wonder why the citizens don't want you in their town. Do you think that raising the education requirements is going to solve this problem? Like Ron White says, "You can't fix stupid." The answer to the problem is fire-based EMS.
 
ROFL..... okay.. I gotta assume that the nick 'flamemedic' has more to do with your role on a forum than your association with a fire department.

I'm sure your post will start an intelligent, thoughtful discussion. A mature review of the issues in a respectful and non adversarial manner. Let the games begin! I'm starting a pool on how long it takes admin to shut this thread down.. I'll take 24 hours... any other takers?
 
Should be five minutes, for garbage like this!
 
Well let's break out the beverages and snacks. This could turn interesting.
 
This is a joke. right?

How many "stupid" people go to a medic mill just to be a FF?
 
Meh, 3/10. You could definitely troll better than that. That said, props for actually using sentences and the like.
 
FlameMedic said:
I've been a firefighter for 3 years and I must say I like the trend I'm starting to see. I've read numerous posts on here about how the fire service should keep their hands off of the EMS "Profession." Well I got news for you, it is not a "profession," it's an occupation. If you think that raising the education requirements is going to scare us away then you have another thing coming! The only way EMS will be a "profession" will be if it is ran by professionals. What I currently see in my city is a bunch of wrinkled up duffel bags who can barely step into their ambulance due to their elephantiasis legs and their pants down around their knees. I know that not every EMS service is like this but seems to be the trend here in the midwest. Also, why is that a fireman is instructing a paramedic on how to properly place a blood pressure cuff on a patients arm? Why is a fireman instructing a paramedic not to give D-50 rectally? Hey, maybe that rhythm on the monitor is a paced rhythm and not V-tach, but you shock them anyway. I personally find it embarrassing to even be on scene with some of these paramedics. One thing the fire service can provide to the EMS community is a sense of professionalism, this is currently non-existent Raising the education requirements is not going to eliminate fire from EMS, it's only going to result in less paramedics. I think Florida has figured out the problem and found a solution. They have found a very proficient way to provide quality patient care in a timely manner by using fire-based EMS. When it's all said and done, Private EMS has no one to blame but themselves. You nickled and dimed, you continued to hired poor paramedics, and now you wonder why the citizens don't want you in their town. Do you think that raising the education requirements is going to solve this problem? Like Ron White says, "You can't fix stupid." The answer to the problem is fire-based EMS.
Click to expand...

I'll feed the troll...


Yeah, that is why most F/F are hired from the neck down. Do we really want to discuss your so called professionalism with the recent news articles of Fire Services ways to cheat, dilute educational standards, and even cheating to re-register, failing of National Exams and attemting to replace with local ones?... Well, if that is one professional method. Then we can do without.

Oh by the way, it is called Emergency MEDICAL Services for a reason. Sure, FD for a first response is highly recommended. Lower knowledge first aid and basic skills can be essential for the first initial treatment, until Professional EMS arrives.

Yes, I do understand the Fire Service. I have a degree in Fire Science and was a line Captain for ten year; hence the reason I left that trade.

Whenever and if you require a degree for your trade, come and re-visit us about your so called job.

R/r 911
 
Deleted because I wanted it so...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Not even 24 hours Bossy. I'm betting more around 12.

I'll bite and feed the Troll also.

Your points cut both ways. Every thing you've just said about private EMS can be turned around and said right back about fire fighters. There are definitely Fire based EMS systems that are excellent, just as there are private EMS systems that are excellent. There are some private Paramedics who shouldn't be paramedics, just as there are fire Paramedics who shouldn't be paramedics. I was on a call with a FF the other day who had no idea what a medic alert bracelet was, or why I wanted him to tell me what it said on it.

The dynamic between fire based and private EMS is much more complicated then you are trying to make it out to be. My private company is restricted in what we are allowed to charge by the city fire department. We can't raise the rates on anything without their permission. We are not funded by a tax either, like private ambulances are in some areas. The only income we have is what we charge. At the City FD a first year EMT B/FF makes a starting wage of nearly $45,000 a year. Someone who has worked there 5 years makes $71,000 a year. At our private company a first year Paramedic makes around $32,000 a year. After 5 years it goes up to a whopping $37,000 a year. If you ask me, the private companies are not the ones nickel and diming the public to death.

If you would like to argue that Fire is a profession because it requires more education, please think again before you try that. To become an NREMT P you must have EMT B and then Paramedic. Around 1400 or so hours of education. In the city where I work the entry level fire fighter requirements are IFSAC Fire fighter I, Haz-Mat Ops, and EMT Basic. Not even close to 1400 hours. Even if someone had FFII, RIT, Haz-Mat Tech, High and Low angle rescue, Fire Instructor I, Fire Officer I, EVOC, and a few Driver/Operator courses to boot they would only hit about 700-800 hours. Still 1/2 of what is required to become a Paramedic.

Trust me, private EMS does not have the market cornered on being unprofessional.
 
I can't speak for Fire vs. EMS in every place. But out here it's horrible. Every FF get's their EMT or Medic becasue "it looks good" or "I need it to get hired". NO LIE. Straight out, 90% of all FF's I have worked with shuldn't be allowed to touch a patient. They skate through the courses because the other FF's they hang out with help them learn just enough to pass. Truth is that this same 90% want to "fight fires, go to MVAs, and ride in the big red trucks." They have no interest in medicine. And god forbid they have to work around sick people!

I can't speak for your neck of the woods (and if 1/2 of what you sy is true, we have a problem), but Fire based EMS is not the solution around here. IMHO, the poeple who focus 100% on the medicine are better EMS providers than those who wan't to train/cert in/as, paramedic, Wildland FF, Structure FF, Extrication Technician, Swiftwater Techncian, Rope Rescue Technician, Hazmat Technician, etc... all at once so that it can be on their resume byt he time they reach the age of 23. Not saying having it all is bad, but you should become proficient in each; striving to be the best you can be in all of them and only doing it because you want to. If your medics are that bad it is a reflection on your county's/state's EMS system, not on the entire PROFESSION of EMS. It may be vocation for some, but for me and many others it is a PROFESSION finely tuned by PROFESSIONALS.

That said, I don't mide FF's being the First Responders on EMS calls, if they know there stuff and want to be the best medical providers that theie level of certification allows. Same goes for anyone that is doing straight EMS!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
And d-50 can go rectal. Messy but would absorb if you held their butt cheeks closed and elevated them significantly.:P
 
Ridryder911 said:
I'll feed the troll...


Yeah, that is why most F/F are hired from the neck down. Do we really want to discuss your so called professionalism with the recent news articles of Fire Services ways to cheat, dilute educational standards, and even cheating to re-register, failing of National Exams and attemting to replace with local ones?... Well, if that is one professional method. Then we can do without.

Oh by the way, it is called Emergency MEDICAL Services for a reason. Sure, FD for a first response is highly recommended. Lower knowledge first aid and basic skills can be essential for the first initial treatment, until Professional EMS arrives.

Yes, I do understand the Fire Service. I have a degree in Fire Science and was a line Captain for ten year; hence the reason I left that trade.

Whenever and if you require a degree for your trade, come and re-visit us about your so called job.

R/r 911
Click to expand...

Well Dr. Cox, we are not the ones "diluting" the EMS field, we're trying to make it somewhat respectable! "Lower knowledge first-aid skills," are you serious? I'm a paramedic, and I'll be the first to tell you that it's the "Lower knowledge first-aid skills" that can save someones life. Yes, I understand it's called Emergency "Medical" Services, but my chief told me that when we take over for our city's EMS (2011) we will be known as "Fire Rescue Medical Specialist." It make sense to me since our responsibilities are growing.


"Whenever and if you require a degree for your trade, come and re-visit us about your so called job." Since when did the National Registry require a degree to get a gold patch? That's like the kettle calling the coffee black!
 
My service is a dept of the town govt. Before I joined a yr ago the fire dept here in town was offered the ambulance service but the FD said no. I believe theyfeel that fire is fire and ems is ems both separate. I wonder if there are any other FD's who feel like that. My dept head is also the community constable.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
FlameMedic said:
Are you serious?
Click to expand...

Actually there is no reason you could not administer it rectally, but why when you can go IV, IO, or glucagon. It can also be taken orally if alert.

If you had no choice but to go rectal oral glucose paste would be the better option as thicker and actually more grams of sugar than d-50.

Thats the problem with fire first responders they can't think outside the big red trucks. Guess the smoke kills to many brain cells.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
re

The first thought that came to my mind when i read this gems post, is the ever so popular T-Shirt with the slogan

"Real medics dont roll hose"

And yes D-50 or any liquid sugar can been given rectally. For the most part, anything that could be absorbed across the mucosal lining of the large bowel can be given. On the other hand, there is a reason why the majority of drugs are not made into preperations to be adsorbed this route. The trick is to get it past the rectum "and i dont mean the spincture, i mean the entire rectum" and into and past the sigmoid colon where the absorbtion can take place.


Able to follow this big guy? Need to seek guidance from your Chief? Or should i just draw a few illustrations for ya?

Take an Anatomy/Histology and Physiology course and come back when your all grown up, until then go troll a FF forum with your garbage.


Corky
 
Last edited by a moderator:
FlameMedic said:
I've been a firefighter for 3 years and I must say I like the trend I'm starting to see. I've read numerous posts on here about how the fire service should keep their hands off of the EMS "Profession." Well I got news for you, it is not a "profession," it's an occupation.
Click to expand...


The last time I looked EMS is a profession. Here in Canada the federal govt awards a medal after an EMS provider has served 20 yrs it's called the EMS Exemplary Services Medal.
 
Corky said:
The first thought that came to my mind when i read this gems post, is the ever so popular T-Shirt with the slogan

"Real medics dont roll hose"

And yes D-50 or any liquid sugar can been given rectally. For the most part, anything that could be absorbed across the mucosal lining of the large bowel can be given. On the other hand, there is a reason why the majority of drugs are not made into preperations to be adsorbed this route. The trick is to get it past the rectum "and i dont mean the spincture, i mean the entire rectum" and into and past the sigmoid colon where the absorbtion can take place.


Able to follow this big guy? Need to seek guidance from your Chief? Or should i just draw a few illustrations for ya?

Take an Anatomy/Histology and Physiology course and come back when your all grown up, until then go troll a FF forum with your garbage.


Corky
Click to expand...

It's actually called a "sphincter," not a "spincture." Do I need to draw an illustration for ya?

Thanks for the condescending remarks. I'm not trying to spew any garbage, just trying to rationalize why a fire service can't operate EMS. By the way, I attended those courses Corky, and they were at a college institution.

Since when is histology a requirement? Last time I checked there were no microscopes in the back of the rig. What's next, a super conductor super collider? Why do you people insist on making this so complicated? This was not meant to be brain surgery. Keep in mind that the roots of today's EMS was planted by the Department of Transportation, not the Ministry of Health.
 
re

damn caught my typo! i hate typing into my motorola Q. Histology AKA cellular anatomy will give you a much better understanding of the tissue involved and why D50 can be absorbed into the colon and not the rectum.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top