the 100% directionless thread

[JPINFV]

The murder is very sad but i have trouble wrapping my head around the fact that his father knew he was homeless and schizophrenic... What did he expect to happen? Eventually he was going to get hurt. He should have been in some kind of treatment program or home or something.

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...and that somehow excuses the actions of the officer? Gee, I wonder what would happen if I walked up to an officer and said, " 'You see my fist? Now they're getting to ready to 'f' you up,' and then got 5 of my friends and I to beat the officer to death, I don't think it's going to take over a month and a half for me to get charged.

As far as Kelly Thomas being homeless, what do you expect the family to do, lock him in his room?

 

[JPINFV]

He should have had his son in a treatment program or ALF.

What's preventing him from signing out from the treatment program or ALF? Being homeless doesn't quite fall to the level of "gravely disabled."

 

[JPINFV]

Plus, TASE away. Anyone stupid enough to fight an officer deserves to ride the lightning for a very long time.

Citizens have the right to protect themselves from police officers. By blatantly and directly threatening to batter Kelly Thomas, Officer Ramos gave up any authority of the law to force Thomas to do anything. When an officer puts an undue fear for their own life in someone's mind in this manner, it's not resisting arrest, it's self defense.

Oh, and they did taze him, and then the officer being charged with involuntary manslaughter decided to use his tazer as a boxing glove and Thomas's face as a punching bag. That's not "riding the lightening," that's an officer who's nothing better than a thug and who deserves to be thrown in general population for a very long time (I'm waiting for the civil rights violation charges coming from the FBI on this one).

 

[Sasha]

The caption on one of the pictures here: http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-310771--.html?pic=2 says an eyewitness stated "Witness Mark Turgeon says he saw the "out of control" physical altercation from about 25 feet away. He said two officers were on top of Thomas, then two others came and shot him with an electronic stun gun. Two more officers showed up and started beating him, Turgeon said. "He wasn't moving anymore," Turgeon said. "He wasn't resisting. He was face-down and they were beating him on the back of the head.""

He's not moving, he's not fighting.. that is not a fight for your life that is police brutality. Plain and simple. That is manslaughter at the very least.

A person on the ground who is not threatening you is NOT a threat.

Also earlier in the slide show it states that he was hit in the leg by a police officer and he RAN AWAY.

 

[Sasha]

What's preventing him from signing out from the treatment program or ALF? Being homeless doesn't quite fall to the level of "gravely disabled."

The fact he had schizophrenia?

I never said it excused the actions of the cops. Are you even reading the thread?

 

[JPINFV]

Press conference where the DA laid out what happened and the charges.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmCzIFmLL20[/youtube]

Also earlier in the slide show it states that he was hit in the leg by a police officer and he RAN AWAY.

Which I don't blame him when an officer made a clear threat absent provocation to turn his face into a mashed potato.

 

[JPINFV]

The fact he had schizophrenia?

I never said it excused the actions of the cops. Are you even reading the thread?

By putting the blame for his death, even an ounce, on anyone but Ramos, who needlessly invokes a fight under the color of authority that resulted in a death, on anyone but those involved in the altercation is excusing, even if only an ounce, the actions of the police.

Last time I checked, right, wrong, or indifferent, a mere diagnosis of schizophrenia does not institutionalize a person.

 

[Sasha]

Dude I am on YOUR side... The ones you need to be arguing with is Linuss and usaf, not me.

 

[Shishkabob]

, Turgeon said. "He wasn't moving anymore," Turgeon said. "He wasn't resisting. He was face-down and they were beating him on the back of the head.""

Sorry, civilians suck at being eye-wtinesses. This has been proven time and time again. Therefor, pardon me for taking their statements at face value.

Oh, and they did taze him, and then the officer being charged with involuntary manslaughter decided to use his tazer as a boxing glove and Thomas's face as a punching bag.

Wait, you're telling me that's wrong?

So, how is TASING someone ok, hitting them with an asp ok, but combining the two is wrong?


If someone is unaffected by a TASER, the only two options left are beating the snot out of them, and lethal force.

Also earlier in the slide show it states that he was hit in the leg by a police officer and he RAN AWAY.

So... because someone runs away, police shouldn't do their job? What about the fleeing felon rule? You against that, too?





For those of you who lack a degree in criminal justice: Just because someones been indicted, doesn't mean they committed a crime. The whole purpose of a trial is to prove they committed a crime.

 

[Sasha]

Sorry, civilians suck at being eye-wtinesses. This has been proven time and time again. Therefor, pardon me for taking their statements at face value.





Wait, you're telling me that's wrong?

So, how is TASING someone ok, hitting them with an asp ok, but combining the two is wrong?


If someone is unaffected by a TASER, the only two options left are beating the snot out of them, and lethal force.





So... because someone runs away, police shouldn't do their job? What about the fleeing felon rule? You against that, too?





For those of you who lack a degree in criminal justice: Just because someones been indicted, doesn't mean they committed a crime. The whole purpose of a trial is to prove they committed a crime.

Nope. I'm against police brutality.

 

[Shishkabob]

When brutality is proven, I'll side with you.



But beating someone fighting you doesn't instantly translate to brutality.

 

[Sasha]

Lethal force is supposed to be when there is a lethal threat, not a guy on the ground not moving or resisting anymore.

That is inappropriate amounts of force for the threat being presented.

 

[Sasha]

When brutality is proven, I'll side with you.



But beating someone fighting you doesn't instantly translate to brutality.

Beating someone who is on the ground, not moving is not a fight.. It's jumping someone.

 

[Shishkabob]

Lethal force is supposed to be when there is a lethal threat, not a guy on the ground not moving or resisting anymore.

That is inappropriate amounts of force for the threat being presented.

You neither were there to see if he was moving or not, nor have you been trained on the use of force continuum to deem when it is or is not called for.





You keep saying he wasn't moving. The only 'evidence' you have of this is a bystanders words, no actual video proof.

 

[usafmedic45]

Last time I checked, right, wrong, or indifferent, a mere diagnosis of schizophrenia does not institutionalize a person.

It should given how many of them are non-compliant with therapy rendering themselves a danger to themselves or others.

When brutality is proven, I'll side with you.

Likewise. A press conference by an elected official pandering to his constituency is not proof of guilt.

 

[usafmedic45]

Beating someone who is on the ground, not moving is not a fight.. It's jumping someone.

Unless there's a video that's been released, you don't know that he wasn't moving for definite.

Lethal force is supposed to be when there is a lethal threat, not a guy on the ground not moving or resisting anymore.

Right...they should have had the smarts to shoot him while he was still resisting.

 

[Shishkabob]

Let's look back at Rodney King.


A guy who fled from police, had a violent criminal record, was drunk as a skunk, and fought police. He lost the fight, as all criminals should.





Yet the way it's thought of nowadays by your average person, he was some innocent black guy pulled out of his car at gunpoint and beaten for flicking off a cop.

 

[JPINFV]

Wait, you're telling me that's wrong?

When it's a result of an unncessary escalation of force created only by the officer which results in the victim looking like this, and ultimately causing the victim's death, yes it's wrong. If a man in Georgia can be executed for killing an officer with no physical evidence and the majority of the witnesses recanting their testimony, an officer who creates a situation that results in a death of the victim, such as in a case like this, should be a capital offense, and the perpetrator should be executed in his police uniform. Police do not get to beat random homeless guys to a pulp because they want to.

So... because someone runs away, police shouldn't do their job?

What about the fleeing felon rule? You against that, too?

There's a difference between a felon fleeing, and the police needlessly threatening an individual to the point that it, in the words of the DA, "[instills] a reasonable fear that the officers were going to unlawfully cause serious physical harm to him." Police officers do not get a blank check regarding force, and when they step over that line, the citizens have the right to protect themselves, with force if need be.

 

[usafmedic45]

For those of you who lack a degree in criminal justice: Just because someones been indicted, doesn't mean they committed a crime. The whole purpose of a trial is to prove they committed a crime

Depends....I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to those who otherwise are trustworthy (cops, etc) but tend to assume guilt in those who have the propensity to be guilty (prior convictions, resisted arrest, called a press conference with Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson, etc).

 

[JPINFV]

When brutality is proven, I'll side with you.



But beating someone fighting you doesn't instantly translate to brutality.

So when Ramos is convicted, we can expect you to agree? Does this translate to everyone else, or just when police officers break the law?