the 100% directionless thread

[usafmedic45]

He should have had his son in a treatment program or ALF. I cant imagine any parent in his right mind who would allow a mentally ill son or daughter to roam the streets. Its like sticking your hand in a fire and being shocked you got burned. You knew it was a dangerous situation.

Given that there are no good state run programs to institutionalize these folks for life and the push from limp-wristed liberal wusses that dominate social services these days to switch to out-patient treatment (which has been demonstrated time and again not to work; re: the "lady who ate her baby" thread) committing him was not likely to happen. Do you expect this family to go broke trying to pay for a private assisted living facility? I can understand why they turned him out and left him to fend for himself on the street. I can't say that I would not do the same to my own kid if she turned out this way. There's a point in dealing with patients like this that is much like making the decision at the point in a code where further efforts are just excessive and costly wastes of time.

Personally, I don't think this was murder or even manslaughter. A little heavy-handed? Yeah, probably. However, I also believe this is a much better example of why we must go back to institutionalizing for life folks with intractable and incurable illnesses that render them a danger to themselves or others. It's also a good example why one should always do what cops tell them to do. The "victim" was at least partially culpable in his own death to some small degree. He didn't deserve to be killed, but even severe schizos can learn from a good ol' fashioned *** beating.

 

[Shishkabob]

Not even close to murder, let alone 2nd degree murder.


Manslaughter is pushing it, but let's be fair here, a fight is a fight. If a patient fights me and I knocked them out with Versed or Ativan and they have an allergic reaction, no murder charges will stem from it. Why is this any different?

 

[Sasha]

Given that there are no good state run programs to institutionalize these folks for life and the push from limp-wristed liberal wusses that dominate social services these days to switch to out-patient treatment (which has been demonstrated time and again not to work; re: the "lady who ate her baby" thread) committing him was not likely to happen. Do you expect this family to go broke trying to pay for a private assisted living facility? I can understand why they turned him out and left him to fend for himself on the street. I can't say that I would not do the same to my own kid if she turned out this way. There's a point in dealing with patients like this that is much like making the decision at the point in a code where further efforts are just excessive and costly wastes of time.

Personally, I don't think this was murder or even manslaughter. A little heavy-handed? Yeah, probably. However, I also believe this is a much better example of why we must go back to institutionalizing for life folks with intractable and incurable illnesses that render them a danger to themselves or others. It's also a good example why one should always do what cops tell them to do. The "victim" was at least partially culpable in his own death to some small degree. He didn't deserve to be killed, but even severe schizos can learn from a good ol' fashioned *** beating.

There is government funded insurance like medicaid that could help pay for it.

You arent an example of thr average parent.

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[Sasha]

Not even close to murder, let alone 2nd degree murder.


Manslaughter is pushing it, but let's be fair here, a fight is a fight. If a patient fights me and I knocked them out with Versed or Ativan and they have an allergic reaction, no murder charges will stem from it. Why is this any different?

They continued beating him after he stopped moving. How is that NOT anything short of at least manslaughter?

Six men beating on one. That is incredibly inappropriate.
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[usalsfyre]

Is that one way or round trip? Where will you be now?

And congrats.


Sent from my electronic overbearing life controller

One way. We'll end up in the DFW metroplex, just not sure where, depends on how things settle over the next few months. I was seriously looking at your area of the state at one point but the doors just opened in DFW

 

[Shishkabob]

They continued beating him after he stopped moving. How is that NOT anything short of at least manslaughter?

Six men beating on one. That is incredibly inappropriate.
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Sasha...Police aren't supposed to fight fair, they fight to win.

That's why they have TASERs, batons, pepper spray, handguns and other tools at their disposal.

just not sure where,

My area ^_^

 

[Sasha]

Sasha... when you fight for your life, you don't fight fair. You fight to win.

That's why police have TASERs, batons, pepper spray, handguns and other tools at their disposal.




My area ^_^

Six men against one man who is running away and going "I'm sorry I'm sorry" who STOPS MOVING is not a fight for your life, it's police brutality.

 

[usafmedic45]

There is government funded insurance like medicaid that could help pay for it.

Yeah, and they will be out the door as soon as their meds reach therapeutic levels.

You arent an example of thr average parent.

You aren't an example of an average medic either. Then again I would wager my attitude is rather commonplace among parents, otherwise why would there be so many young homeless folks with severe mental illness?

They continued beating him after he stopped moving.

Allegedly. I don't view it as any different than Mozambique drilling someone who breaks into my house. They may well be on the ground but I'll be damned if I'm going to chance them getting back up. Since I figure that you are ignorant as to what I am specifically talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozambique_Drill

How is that NOT anything short of at least manslaughter?

Depends on why they were doing it. If he gave them a reason to use deadly force, it's not manslaughter.

Six men beating on one. That is incredibly inappropriate.

There's no such thing as a fair fight. Personally, until I see video of what actually transpired, I almost always side with the police.

 

[Shishkabob]

Six men against one man who is running away and going "I'm sorry I'm sorry" who STOPS MOVING is not a fight for your life, it's police brutality.

Again, you don't fight fair, you fight to win, regardless of circumstances. I've fought patients high on PCP where it took 11 of us to finally come out on top.



Your average civilian, who has no experience in such situations: "That's brutality!"

Your average cop/Paramedic/Firefighter, who HAVE been in such situations: "That's making sure I win and don't get hurt"

 

[usafmedic45]

Six men against one man who is running away and going "I'm sorry I'm sorry"

Source for that? I saw no mention of that in the linked article. The only thing the perp is cited as having said was "Start swinging dude" to the officer. I don't care if you're mentally ill and staring down a cop or a 90 year old paraplegic, you have to be pretty stupid to give someone carte blanche to kick your ***. Darwin might have gotten it right after all....

Also, it sounds like it was two against one and the other four officers were simply on scene. Why not criticize the bystanders for not intervening? They are just as culpable as the other officers who apparently did nothing wrong if we're going by your standard.

 

[Shishkabob]

Plus, TASE away. Anyone stupid enough to fight an officer deserves to ride the lightning for a very long time.



But NOO, just because they scream in pain, it HAS to be cruel and unusual! I've been tased, it hurt, yet it would make me comply as a criminal. If you continue to fight after the first shock, enjoy the beating, you deserve it.

 

[usafmedic45]

Again, you don't fight fair, you fight to win, regardless of circumstances. I've fought patients high on PCP where it took 11 of us to finally come out on top.

Eh....that's the point where you just shoot the :censored::censored::censored::censored:er and be done with it. A police action shooting investigation tends to be shorter than the comparable investigation for a protracted restraint scenario. At least the ballistics will allow you to determine where people were actually standing.

 

[usafmedic45]

But NOO, just because they scream in pain, it HAS to be cruel and unusual! I've been tased, it hurt, yet it would make me comply as a criminal. If you continue to fight after the first shock, enjoy the beating, you deserve it.

Amen.

 

[Shishkabob]

Eh....that's the point where you just shoot the :censored::censored::censored::censored:er and be done with it. A police action shooting investigation tends to be shorter than the comparable investigation for a protracted restraint scenario. At least the ballistics will allow you to determine where people were actually standing.

A couple of weeks ago we were sent to check out a person dumb enough to fight 6 cops and grab on of the officers TASERs. A Trooper jammed his handgun right to his temple until he dropped it. Guy deserved every nick, cut, and bruise on him, and infact, is lucky his brains didn't end up in the middle of the road from being shot.


Cops are allowed, and have been cleared for using, lethal force on people who possess an officers TASER.

 

[Gray]

Not even close to murder, let alone 2nd degree murder.


Manslaughter is pushing it, but let's be fair here, a fight is a fight. If a patient fights me and I knocked them out with Versed or Ativan and they have an allergic reaction, no murder charges will stem from it. Why is this any different?

 

[Sasha]

Yeah. I'm gonna bow out of this because you can't convince Linuss that a police officer has ever been wrong in their life and trying to is like beating your head against a brick wall.

 

[Gray]

I don't disagree the man should of been placed into custody. But running a police state and blatantly killing the man was overboard. No less, while other officers watched. Did you even read the entire article?

He lifted his fists to Kelly Thomas and he said, 'You see my fist? Now they're getting to ready to 'f' you up,'" Rackauckas told reporters, using "f" instead of the full profanity.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/21/justice/california-homeless-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

 

[BandageBrigade]

six men beating on one. That is incredibly inappropriate.
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Any cop who fights a 1 on 1 fair fight should no longer be working as a cop. Fight to win. There is nothing macho about being able to go one on one with a subject. you do what you have to to make sure you and your partner are going home that night.
Edit: I make this statement as a generality and without reading the article or any knowledge of the case.

 

[Cup of Joe]

Without seeing what actually transpired, I would have to agree with Linuss in the LEOs probably handled the situation as they saw fit.

However, I am not closed minded to the idea that there could have been police brutality.

But do any of us really know? Its all speculation.

 

[usafmedic45]

Yeah. I'm gonna bow out of this because you can't convince Linuss that a police officer has ever been wrong in their life and trying to is like beating your head against a brick wall.

Well, you really don't have much of a stance other than saying that the officers were obviously wrong without providing much evidence to support your contention. You weren't there, none of us were and likely the prosecutions have more to do with avoiding/minimizing any lawsuit against the city and keeping the uproar to a minimum for the sake of the city's leadership than any real interest in 'justice' for the perp in this case.