Socialism

DV_EMT said:
i completely agree...

they arent paying welfare or social security or any taxes...

therefore

they dont deserve my money

same with the bloody homeless (esp here in SB). Look, I'm all up for helping the homeless... medically or with food. But giving them cash. Come on... really.
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Yeah, never give a homeless person cash, MOST LIKELY they'll just go to the gas station and get some beer. Food/water/clothing is all good thoe.



And about illegal immigration, I mean... Mexico is pretty bad, I've been to Tijuana before, I would never want to live there. So I understand why they come over here.

However everyone says they want to come here for better lives for their families, I completely understand but I don't think the kids really care. I really don't want to sound racist right now but I don't usually see alot of Mexicans try that hard in school. They just fool around like most others and don't do their work. At least in my school from what I see.

Not to say there no Mexican kids that try really hard, we had some kids a few years ago pretty much straight from Mexico and our school has classes like "History for English learners" and they attended those and went after school for help etc. so there are some that try hard but many don't care. And by trying I mean when Mexicans get C's but try their best, that is great. Coming to a new country with a new language must be tough stuff. But then there are the Mexicans that get F's and don't give a crap.

I want to separate my comment by not trying to sound racist by ending off on the note that there are not only Mexicans that don't try in school. PLENTY and I mean PLENTY of white folks don't care about school.
 
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"Socialism - a good idea untill you run out of other peoples money"

I believe most Socialists advocate abolishing money, and view the the resources of society as belonging to those that directly produce, distribute, and sell it.

But it's hard to tell what people mean by socialism. I hear people say Obama is a Socialist.


Re: Immigrants, this topic always makes me very emotional so I will not say too much, but I have known immigrant workers that work for less than minimum wage, are treated terribly by their bosses, live in crowded apartments and still send money to their families. I know their are a lot of opinions on this, but I have a hard time embracing the notion that people living north of the border deserve a different lifestyle than those that live south of it.
 
SeeNoMore said:
"I know their are a lot of opinions on this, but I have a hard time embracing the notion that people living north of the border deserve a different lifestyle than those that live south of it.
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So we should improve the lives of those South of the border as opposed to reducing the lifestyle of those North of the border.
 
Illegal aliens need ot be kicked out as soon as they are found as long as there is a waiting list. If you want to argue that it should be easier to immigrate to this country, then make that argument, but the difficulty to immigrate to America (which my understanding is that even under the current system is still vastly easier than most other developed countries).

Also anyone who thinks that any sort of work is 'above them' should have their benifits immediately stripped. No job is above any one person, especially one living off of the dole.
 
phabib said:
These analogies are always way too simple. The students in the class still missed the major point. If they study then they will gain the knowledge, that is the point of school.

Same thing with socialism in society. Will you want to work in a coal mine or at McDonald's just because you know you have the basics taken care of? Of course not. You'll work hard to have that dream job still but now money won't be your inspiration. Maybe under a socialist system you'll actually have the chance to go to college or even medical or law school. It's sad that entire societies think socialism will fail because they won't get to be the next millionaire. If all they get out of work is a paycheck then these people live pathetic lives.
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The problem is, not enough people are passionate about growing up and working. I myslef have dreamed of being a paramedic for years. IT is my ultimate goal. When I think of my future, I don't think about who I will be with, or what my children will be like. I think about what jpb I will be doing, and if that is my dream job then I am excited. If that isn't, then I am also pathetic.

But not too mny people see it that way. It is hard to believe for someone who has a drwam job. But a lot of people's drem is to sky dive, or have a big family. Work has become just work. It is almost taboo to be a 15 year old like myself, and actually think about what I wan to do for a job.

So more than hlf the people who go to good schools are going just because their dadies can afford it, and they will end up making good money somehow. But whe money is taken out, why would non-passionate people want to work hard to get a good job?

The problem with socialism is from the gradual developement of total apathy towards one's future of employment that has so plagued modern generations.
 
"So we should improve the lives of those South of the border as opposed to reducing the lifestyle of those North of the border."

I agree. How to do this is the question I suppose. Personally I think some Americans live lifestyles that are hard to justify in the face of global poverty, but they are in the extreme minority. There is no reason that everyone can not have housing, sustenance, medical care, education etc.

And of course it's not like its all the fault of affluent Western citizens. The terrible corruption in many poorer nations leads to many people suffering while resources are given to Tyrants.
 
JPINFV said:
Illegal aliens need ot be kicked out as soon as they are found as long as there is a waiting list. If you want to argue that it should be easier to immigrate to this country, then make that argument, but the difficulty to immigrate to America (which my understanding is that even under the current system is still vastly easier than most other developed countries).

Also anyone who thinks that any sort of work is 'above them' should have their benifits immediately stripped. No job is above any one person, especially one living off of the dole.
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Am I in 100% agreement with JPINFV?

What the heck?
 
ffemt8978 said:
So how much more should the person in your example pay? This is why I support a flat tax, something that would take our existing tax code and reduce to a one page document. No deductions, no exemptions.

10 percent of $400,000 is $40,000...which is still more than what a person making $12,000 per year would pay.
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I agree with your views on socialism. Flat tax is a different story. First, the government can make you do something by pulling out a stick or using carrots. Tax deduction incentives allow governments to have a carrot option. For example, why else would a business install a bunch of handicap accessible crap? Not out of the goodness of their hearts. Tax deductions offer governments ways to provide incentives without having to go straight to coercion or the "stick."

Secondly, the accounting that is required to maintain our progressive tax system is a great way to maintain order, fairness, and standards in the system. We keep track of transactions and prevent illegal activity this way. One of the reasons why our financial system has been trusted more than any other in the world is accountability. That accountability in large part has come from all those complicated tax laws and supreme court tax law decisions that flat taxers hate so much. Having a simple flat tax might very well bring about a tyrannical government. In that complex tax law, their is much precedent that protects individuals. Just look at the major decisions and you will see the court sides with individuals just as often as it sides with government. If its too good to be true, it is. Just some food for thought.
 
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FFEMT said I needed to look in...

Giving a homeless person $10 is a nice gesture. What they really need is a hefty stipend, help getting medical dental and psychological help, then an apt. and a job.

Ditto ex-cons.

The majority of undoc aliens are invisible because they are earning a living, howsoever marginal, and paying sales tax, Soc Sec witholding, etc. Ditto many homeless folks.

This is not BS, this is direct observation working in jails and working as a medically indigent program medical case manager. I oppose people illegally entering, but once here or once someone has lost their home it makes little sense not to help them try to become productive unless you plan to kill them.
 
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