Socialism

minneola24 said:
Yeah many poor people go the drug route, however there ARE hard working Americans that are still living in poverty. Especially Immigrants.
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Without even considering immigrants, what about people who work at jobs that don't offer healthcare? My husband is a producer at a tv studio but he isn't offered healthcare through his job. Tying healthcare to jobs is a mistake. Tying healthcare to big business is a mistake. I don't know how to fix it, but our current system is very, very broken. Drugs should not cost thousands upon thousands of dollars. The elderly should not have to choose between medications and food. Children should not be without healthcare because their parents can't hold down a job. There are so many things wrong with the current system that it's hard to figure out where to fix things. I'm not saying that socialized healthcare is the answer, but what we have right now is not working. Call me a liberal if you want (and yes, I am), but when my health insurance premiums are increasing every year and my benefits from that insurance is decreasing, we have a big problem.
 
paccookie said:
Without even considering immigrants, what about people who work at jobs that don't offer healthcare? My husband is a producer at a tv studio but he isn't offered healthcare through his job. Tying healthcare to jobs is a mistake. Tying healthcare to big business is a mistake. I don't know how to fix it, but our current system is very, very broken. Drugs should not cost thousands upon thousands of dollars. The elderly should not have to choose between medications and food. Children should not be without healthcare because their parents can't hold down a job. There are so many things wrong with the current system that it's hard to figure out where to fix things. I'm not saying that socialized healthcare is the answer, but what we have right now is not working. Call me a liberal if you want (and yes, I am), but when my health insurance premiums are increasing every year and my benefits from that insurance is decreasing, we have a big problem.
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Plus one!!
 
paccookie said:
Without even considering immigrants, what about people who work at jobs that don't offer healthcare?
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I said this in a previous thread and I'll say it again--- Get a job that DOES offer it. Truly, there is no excuse.


Having said that;

If people keep going to jobs that offer no benefits, then complain there are no benefits, but make no steps to get said benefits, then there will never be benefits. If you want something, work towards it, don't demand it of the rest of the country.
 
I said this in a previous thread and I'll say it again--- Get a job that DOES offer it.
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SOMEONE needs to work those jobs, and it is usually those who are happy just to be getting a regular pay check.

Health care shouldn't be contingent on a job, insurance should be affordable, not cost pver half a person's rent payment a month.
 
Socialism - a good idea untill you run out of other peoples money
 
Sasha said:
SOMEONE needs to work those jobs, and it is usually those who are happy just to be getting a regular pay check.
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Then let them--- but they can no longer complain that they no benefits. If you want a job with benefits, find a job with benefits, or force your current job to offer it.



If I choose to jump across a creek everyday instead of walking to a bridge, I can't complain when my legs get tired.
 
Linuss said:
Then let them--- but they can no longer complain that they no benefits. If you want a job with benefits, find a job with benefits, or force your current job to offer it.



If I choose to jump across a creek everyday instead of walking to a bridge, I can't complain when my legs get tired.
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If you can't use the bridge because of outrageous costs, then by all means, complain!

People can't get health care because they are confined to those jobs (many are not qualified for other jobs, and like I said, our economy NEEDS people in those jobs. ) and because it's not affordable.

So, because they can't use the bridge, they must jump across the creek. They have no other recourse but to do so.
 
So I should feel bad because someone decides not to better their own life, and instead demands that we accommodate them?


Nope.
 
Linuss said:
So I should feel bad because someone decides not to better their own life, and instead demands that we accommodate them?


Nope.
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Esp illegal aliens... they're not even legal citizens and yet our cash will go to them... sorry.... not my cup of tea
 
DV_EMT said:
Esp illegal aliens... they're not even legal citizens and yet our cash will go to them... sorry.... not my cup of tea
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Have you looked at the requirements to enter this country legally? Most Americans wouldn't make the cut.

How dare they try to better their life by running from oppression and unemployment and work jobs that many Americans consider themselves above working.
 
Sasha said:
How dare they try to better their life by running from oppression and unemployment and work jobs that many Americans consider themselves above working.
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No see, this is where your logic fails. I have yet to meet anyone who thinks like you just proposed.



But how dare someone do it ILLEGALLY, while others spend their lives trying legally. How dare they take advantage of the system.



It's called "illegal" for a reason, and as such if you do nothing to curb it, you're REWARDING illegal activity. You're REWARDING doing things wrongly.
 
It's called "illegal" for a reason, and as such if you do nothing to curb it, you're REWARDING illegal activity. You're REWARDING doing things wrongly.
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Good for them! Until entrance requirements are reformed to make it easier for them to come over legally, then I will applaud whoever comes over here, illegal or not, to make a better life for themselves or their families.
 
Linuss said:
So I should feel bad because someone decides not to better their own life, and instead demands that we accommodate them?


Nope.
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Those jobs that don't offer health insurance benefits are not always bad jobs or even low paying jobs. They may be small businesses that can't afford to offer benefits to their employees. There isn't always a cut and dried solution to these problems. Perhaps they should just marry someone who has good benefits? LOL Worked for my husband. :P (and no, before someone asks, he is not an immigrant!)
 
paccookie said:
Those jobs that don't offer health insurance benefits are not always bad jobs or even low paying jobs. They may be small businesses that can't afford to offer benefits to their employees. There isn't always a cut and dried solution to these problems. Perhaps they should just marry someone who has good benefits? LOL Worked for my husband. :P (and no, before someone asks, he is not an immigrant!)
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My family owns one of these small businesses. 40 employees. We don't offer insurance, because if we did it would mean having to cut close to half our workforce.


If an employee wants benefits, they are more then welcome to find a new job. They get hired knowing they don't exist, so they have no reason to complain.




Don't get me wrong, I wish everyone did, but it is NOT the governments job to provide it.
 
Linuss said:
No see, this is where your logic fails. I have yet to meet anyone who thinks like you just proposed.



But how dare someone do it ILLEGALLY, while others spend their lives trying legally. How dare they take advantage of the system.



It's called "illegal" for a reason, and as such if you do nothing to curb it, you're REWARDING illegal activity. You're REWARDING doing things wrongly.
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It may be illegal or whatever you want to call it, but I'd rather see someone who is working and just happens to be in this country illegally receiving benefits from the government than someone who was born and raised here sitting on his/her butt and collecting benefits because they are just too lazy or sorry to work. Don't tell me you've never seen this, I see it daily. How many medicaid patients have you picked up this month? How many of those could work, even if it was a low-paying, crappy job like McDonalds? I know someone personally who was on food stamps. He went to buy groceries with the food stamps and also bought a video game with cash...on the same shopping trip. That's the kind of crap that pisses me off, not the family of illegal aliens who are receiving some sort of government benefits.
 
paccookie said:
It may be illegal or whatever you want to call it, but I'd rather see someone who is working and just happens to be in this country illegally receiving benefits from the government than someone who was born and raised here sitting on his/her butt and collecting benefits because they are just too lazy or sorry to work.
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Either way, they both receive something from the government without putting in their share. Both are bad, just one makes my tasty breadsticks at the local restaurant.



If you provide a service, but it's illegal, then guess what? It's still illegal.
 
Either way, they both receive something from the government without putting in their share.
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How are they not putting in their share? They are WORKING and recieve pay much lower then Americans are willing to work for. If all these immigrants working at their jobs for five dollars an hour demanded minimum wage, that would spell trouble for are already troubled economy!
 
Sasha said:
How are they not putting in their share? They are WORKING and recieve pay much lower then Americans are willing to work for. If all these immigrants working at their jobs for five dollars an hour demanded minimum wage, that would spell trouble for are already troubled economy!
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They are getting paid cash under the table, they aren't paying income taxes, they aren't paying social security.


And I hate that argument-- "They are doing jobs Americans don't want"

They are doing jobs for half the legal payrate, and as such will get the benefit of job choice over an American who has to provide for his family. But lets screw the American family just because the illegal has family in a bad country, right?
 
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i completely agree...

they arent paying welfare or social security or any taxes...

therefore

they dont deserve my money

same with the bloody homeless (esp here in SB). Look, I'm all up for helping the homeless... medically or with food. But giving them cash. Come on... really.
 
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