Should EMS be controlled so much by nurses?

NUEMT said:
I'll have to search. I ran across a state nursing association position paper that outlined reasons not to include paramedics in the hospital setting. The argument was originally in response to the use of medics on code teams in that state.
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The San Antonio ENA released a position paper a year ago. It was the event that led to the forming of ATEMSP.
 
TransportJockey said:
The San Antonio ENA released a position paper a year ago. It was the event that led to the forming of ATEMSP.
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Here's a statement I downloaded from the ATEMSP web site. It doesn't sound to me like they're focusing on nurses taking over EMS, but rather on EMS achieving some of the same successes nurses have.

"When Texas nurses first formed an advocacy association, it was not long before they petitioned the legislature for professional ownership and oversight. They did this over 100 years ago when their profession was 100% female members without the right to vote. Though the fight was hard, they were granted professional ownership and the Texas Board of Nursing was formed.

Since that time, nursing care, patient safety and research have all flourished. Nursing went from 500 years of limited development and stifled opportunity to professional advancements and clinical abilities that have caused modern medicine to flourish. Their seat at the table when it comes to healthcare in America and the world has led to some of the most advanced ideas, treatments and successful outcomes in medicine."
 
NUEMT said:
"If more medics would get the managerial/business education needed along with a much broader base of education, they'd be equally good in any position in an EMS agency with the exception of Medical Director. Once Medics get organized politically to the same degree as nurses, they'll be able to do a LOT of pushing (with success). It's just that we tend to try to be very independent-minded folks so getting EMS folks organized on a large scale is more difficult than herding cats."


Excellent comment and dissection of the fields overall.
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I've seen this somewhere. Isn't this from an EMS provider? Whoever said it, I agree, and don't think it has much to do with nurses trying to block our advancement.
 
mgr22 said:
Here's a statement I downloaded from the ATEMSP web site. It doesn't sound to me like they're focusing on nurses taking over EMS, but rather on EMS achieving some of the same successes nurses have.

"When Texas nurses first formed an advocacy association, it was not long before they petitioned the legislature for professional ownership and oversight. They did this over 100 years ago when their profession was 100% female members without the right to vote. Though the fight was hard, they were granted professional ownership and the Texas Board of Nursing was formed.

Since that time, nursing care, patient safety and research have all flourished. Nursing went from 500 years of limited development and stifled opportunity to professional advancements and clinical abilities that have caused modern medicine to flourish. Their seat at the table when it comes to healthcare in America and the world has led to some of the most advanced ideas, treatments and successful outcomes in medicine."
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The position paper that the SA ENA released was an opposition to a bill in one of the TX houses that would permit Paramedics to work as medics in an ED. Not saying that ATEMSP is focusing on nurses taking over EMS, just making a comment that a position paper against EMS advancement into another setting was what set off the ATEMSP movement.
 
mgr22 said:
I've seen this somewhere. Isn't this from an EMS provider? Whoever said it, I agree, and don't think it has much to do with nurses trying to block our advancement.
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It is from a former EMS provider: Me. That being said, there are a few EMS providers out there that are far more recognized than I am that essentially say similar things. That's why you may have seen something similar written elsewhere.
 
Akulahawk said:
It is from a former EMS provider: Me. That being said, there are a few EMS providers out there that are far more recognized than I am that essentially say similar things. That's why you may have seen something similar written elsewhere.
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Guess I should have asked before spending all that time trying to Google the source :-) Anyway, I liked the analogy of "herding cats."
 
My OP was a bit historical, but the main point is that the nursing community is organized, active, and potent. Trying to find the article where state nurses association was fighting against EMS over protocols? I think it was TX. And I'm not saying all nurses are evil. I am one.

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Meanwhile, our ED nurses are welcoming the idea of paramedic tech's with a full scope in both the fast track and resus areas. The ED in question is pretty busy with only two docs on at a time, so the plan is to have them deal with codes and things like that if the doctor is not available.

We have flight nurses doing all sorts of education in our system, and they are awesome. Some were medics, some were not, doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is that when it comes to things like OB, it is difficult to find a paramedic who has tons of awesome experience and educational ability.
 
Tigger said:
Meanwhile, our ED nurses are welcoming the idea of paramedic tech's with a full scope in both the fast track and resus areas. The ED in question is pretty busy with only two docs on at a time, so the plan is to have them deal with codes and things like that if the doctor is not available.

We have flight nurses doing all sorts of education in our system, and they are awesome. Some were medics, some were not, doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is that when it comes to things like OB, it is difficult to find a paramedic who has tons of awesome experience and educational ability.
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Curious, rural area?
 
Tigger said:
Meanwhile, our ED nurses are welcoming the idea of paramedic tech's with a full scope in both the fast track and resus areas. The ED in question is pretty busy with only two docs on at a time, so the plan is to have them deal with codes and things like that if the doctor is not available.
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Hmm, seems interesting -- would love to hear more. What would their role in fast track be? Triage?
 
EpiEMS said:
Hmm, seems interesting -- would love to hear more. What would their role in fast track be? Triage?
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Triage occurs before you get to fast track. You go to fast track after you've been triaged. Depending on if they are allowed to push meds, drawing labs and putting in lines, splinting, taking vitals.
 
EpiEMS said:
Hmm, seems interesting -- would love to hear more. What would their role in fast track be? Triage?
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Fast Track is the Urgent Care side of the ED
 
MonkeyArrow said:
Triage occurs before you get to fast track. You go to fast track after you've been triaged. Depending on if they are allowed to push meds, drawing labs and putting in lines, splinting, taking vitals.
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The above things. Appropriate symptom relief medications, splinting, labs and lines, things like that.

It's Colorado Springs, though the hospitals serves the more suburban areas of the city. If it works they'll add paramedics to the Level II downtown as well. Several of the Denver suburban hospitals also apparently use paramedics in similar roles.
 
We have some nurses in management positions here. When a new policy comes down the pipeline we can usually tell when it's been written by a nurse. As it makes no sense ambulance operations wise...
 
Inspir said:
We have some nurses in management positions here. When a new policy comes down the pipeline we can usually tell when it's been written by a nurse. As it makes no sense ambulance operations wise...
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Are you a hospital based service?
 
I'm at a hospital based service. The Pharmacists are more of an impediment than are the nurses. :)
 
We are a county EMS service. The reason why we have nurses on staff is the air ambulance is staffed by both a Paramedic and a RN.
 
Inspir said:
We are a county EMS service. The reason why we have nurses on staff is the air ambulance is staffed by both a Paramedic and a RN.
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Your county owns the helicopter service and your helicopter is part of your county EMS agency?
 
Pretty common in parts of Florida.
 
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