RFI. Anyone know what's up with AMR in NorCal.?

[rebeltech]

To all you scabs out there! We work very hard in this area to get where we are at! It's not our fault you can't get more pay from AMR or you work in a right to starve state. Please for the sake of your fellow brothers and sisters DO NOT! Come and scab work in our area! If you want what we get paid than you need to force them to come up to our standards not force us to come down to yours.

 

[DesertMedic66]

To all you scabs out there! We work very hard in this area to get where we are at! It's not our fault you can't get more pay from AMR or you work in a right to starve state. Please for the sake of your fellow brothers and sisters DO NOT! Come and scab work in our area! If you want what we get paid than you need to force them to come up to our standards not force us to come down to yours.

If you do not want scab employees coming up there and taking your pay, then don't go on stike! Until that happens all I can say is good luck with your strike, since employees won't be working others will gladly take the pay

 

[TheLocalMedic]

If you do not want scab employees coming up there and taking your pay, then don't go on stike! Until that happens all I can say is good luck with your strike, since employees won't be working others will gladly take the pay

The absolute last thing we want to do is strike. But if our hands are forced because AMR wants to play games and ask us to take cuts, then we must be willing to show them we are serious. What will help us to avoid a strike is if AMR employees from other areas respect their brothers in northern Ca and not offer to act as scabs. If AMR cannot adequately staff the areas striking they will have no option but to finally negotiate in good faith.

 

[DesertMedic66]

The absolute last thing we want to do is strike. But if our hands are forced because AMR wants to play games and ask us to take cuts, then we must be willing to show them we are serious. What will help us to avoid a strike is if AMR employees from other areas respect their brothers in northern Ca and not offer to act as scabs. If AMR cannot adequately staff the areas striking they will have no option but to finally negotiate in good faith.

Or give up the operation and write it as a loss

 

[DrankTheKoolaid]

Stand corrected

 

[fire87l2]

No, this is an 18 county core with EMT-B, EMT-P, VST and CCT-RNs that are threatening to go on strike. No idea where you heard it was just EMT basics. Approximately 1,800 employees total (or 10% of AMR)

 

[DesertMedic66]

No, this is an 18 county core with EMT-B, EMT-P, VST and CCT-RNs that are threatening to go on strike. No idea where you heard it was just EMT basics. Approximately 1,800 employees total (or 10% of AMR)

Not to sound like a jerk but 18 counties and just 1,800 employees (total employees or just those going on strike)? That is not a lot at all.

 

[fire87l2]

Not to sound like a jerk but 18 counties and just 1,800 employees (total employees or just those going on strike)? That is not a lot at all.

AMR has an estimated 18,000 employees nationwide. 18 counties covers around 80% of the entire Northern California Area and these 18 counties combined have a total of 1,800 employees

 

[DesertMedic66]

AMR has an estimated 18,000 employees nationwide. 18 counties covers around 80% of the entire Northern California Area and these 18 counties combined have a total of 1,800 employees

That's still not that much compared to other areas. In my area there is 1,800+ between 2 counties.

 

[exodus]

The absolute last thing we want to do is strike. But if our hands are forced because AMR wants to play games and ask us to take cuts, then we must be willing to show them we are serious. What will help us to avoid a strike is if AMR employees from other areas respect their brothers in northern Ca and not offer to act as scabs. If AMR cannot adequately staff the areas striking they will have no option but to finally negotiate in good faith.

Aren't you guys trying for a 30% raise?

 

[Rano Pano]

Aren't you guys trying for a 30% raise?

From reading the not too distant pages of this thread "30%" was a number to start negotiations from the employees side. It doesn't sound like there are any negotiations at all during this point.

I personally hope the employees striking can get an increase in pay. I understand not everyone feels the same, and that's fine. The arguments about "EMT isn't a career, so the pay should suck" & " you get paid more then me so I don't care" are lame though. It reminds me something a kid would say.

Someone in the recent months told me we need to strive to better the profession we are in. We need to leave it better then we found it. Normally this is the kind of thing I'd write of as cheesy, and think belongs in a Disney movie, but for some reason it struck me, and stayed with me.

I am the first to say I know little about the fine details up North, but what I do know I believe this this is an opportunity for positive change for us at AMR - even in SoCal.

 

[TheLocalMedic]

The 30% number being kicked around is not accurate. We are asking for cost of living increases to make up for wage freezes over the last several years, and yes, when negotiating the idea is to "ask for the moon" so you can settle on a fair increase in the end. But we never asked for 30%. That's just silly.

I know that AMR employees in other areas aren't making a livable wage, but that shouldn't create a divide between them and their united brothers. Instead they should be inspired by seeing how a union can stand up for employees to help them make a fair wage with benefits for the work they do. In an era of increasing executive salaries and companies being owned by huge investment firms, it is more important than ever that employees band together to fight for what is rightfully theirs. WE SHOULDN'T TAKE CUTS WHEN WE'RE THE ONES MAKING THE COMPANY ITS MONEY.

…And to DesertEMT… tell me again why you think 1,800 dissatisfied employees is no big deal. To me it seems like you're just making inflammatory statements at this point because you have nothing productive to add to this discussion.

 

[DesertMedic66]

The 30% number being kicked around is not accurate. We are asking for cost of living increases to make up for wage freezes over the last several years, and yes, when negotiating the idea is to "ask for the moon" so you can settle on a fair increase in the end. But we never asked for 30%. That's just silly.

I know that AMR employees in other areas aren't making a livable wage, but that shouldn't create a divide between them and their united brothers. Instead they should be inspired by seeing how a union can stand up for employees to help them make a fair wage with benefits for the work they do. In an era of increasing executive salaries and companies being owned by huge investment firms, it is more important than ever that employees band together to fight for what is rightfully theirs. WE SHOULDN'T TAKE CUTS WHEN WE'RE THE ONES MAKING THE COMPANY ITS MONEY.

…And to DesertEMT… tell me again why you think 1,800 dissatisfied employees is no big deal. To me it seems like you're just making inflammatory statements at this point because you have nothing productive to add to this discussion.

Simply stating the fact that 1,800 between that many counties is not a huge number. In CA I can throw a rock and hit 3 EMTs and probably a couple of medics.

I don't have an opinion on if I agree or disagree with the strike. If you guys want to go on strike, then go for it. Don't be mad at the people coming in to take over for you guys since you won't be able to do the job (we have new hires who haven't had orientation on stand-by to go up there).

There are always people who will cross the line without a second thought. It's a shame that those who might go on strike are threatening those who will go in to cover (not saying you. Just look at most of the comments on FB). It's sad.

With the recent strike that happened in the imperial valley a lot of employees learned that going on strike sometimes can do nothing but get you fired.

So now back to my statement of 1,800 isn't a lot of people, the college I teach for produces ~70-80 students per semester who are eagerly wanting to get employed. That is just one college in SoCal.

If the strike occurs and AMR doesn't meet the requirements that they agreed on with the counties then AMR will lose their contracts (meaning your job goes bye bye). So the "scabs" who possibly might go up there will help AMR keep their contract (help you to keep your job by letting AMR stay in the area).

Ooh and just to be my normal self you might want to watch your tone about trying to "call members out" before you get this thread closed by the Mods.

 

[TheLocalMedic]

Don't be mad at the people coming in to take over for you guys since you won't be able to do the job (we have new hires who haven't had orientation on stand-by to go up there).

...

If the strike occurs and AMR doesn't meet the requirements that they agreed on with the counties then AMR will lose their contracts (meaning your job goes bye bye). So the "scabs" who possibly might go up there will help AMR keep their contract (help you to keep your job by letting AMR stay in the area).

Right there I have a problem with AMR's plan. They are hiring brand new, no-experience EMTs and medics to cover. I have also heard they are asking people that were turned down for jobs to come work if there is a strike. Does that seem safe to you? Asking newbies and those who weren't deemed good enough in the first place to come and go to work?

Granted, I know that they have to have some kind of contingency plan, but the one they're coming up with is terrible. The scabs aren't going to "help keep your jobs", and I have no love for anyone who would cross a picket line thereby hurting the people in their same profession who are only looking to advance themselves by standing up for what we deserve.

 

[DesertMedic66]

Right there I have a problem with AMR's plan. They are hiring brand new, no-experience EMTs and medics to cover. I have also heard they are asking people that were turned down for jobs to come work if there is a strike. Does that seem safe to you? Asking newbies and those who weren't deemed good enough in the first place to come and go to work?

Granted, I know that they have to have some kind of contingency plan, but the one they're coming up with is terrible. The scabs aren't going to "help keep your jobs", and I have no love for anyone who would cross a picket line thereby hurting the people in their same profession who are only looking to advance themselves by standing up for what we deserve.

AMR has a lot of experience covering operations for strikes. Not everyone they plan on sending up there are brand new. Some are present employees and others have work experience with other companies.

What seems safer, sending up new medics and EMTs or not having ambulance coverage for the area? The later of the 2 seems less safe.

It seems like you're trying to make a blanket statement by implying that EMTs and Medics with no experience are sub-standard care providers. I didn't think I would have to say that there are many EMTs and Medics who have been working for many years who are sub-standard.

 

[Norca]

1,800 employees....

I disagree that 1,800 employees "isn't a lot". It's a hell of a lot. If we estimate 18,000 employees of AMR, that's 10%. I could be wrong on the numbers but that's a hell of a lot of people any way you cut it. This level solidarity is unheard of and shows the grave nature of what we are up against.

The more important message is that 1,800 separate people are all on the same page, and believe the same thing-- that what is happening is bad for them, their families, and the future of their profession--and even for those who would cross the picket line.

They are so sure of that that they are willing to put their jobs, their lively hoods on the line, to defend it. In fact, they are also defending those that may be next down the line to get cuts. How many of you reading this could afford a 30% pay cut? That's just what the south and east bay suffered only a year and a half ago.

 

[TheLocalMedic]

It seems like you're trying to make a blanket statement by implying that EMTs and Medics with no experience are sub-standard care providers.

Let's not mince words. EMTs and paramedics without 911 experience ARE NOT acceptable substitutes for existing providers. And to argue that they aren't any different perhaps merely demonstrates a lack of experience on your part. Would you want a brand new, inexperienced provider caring for you or your family in an area they are unfamiliar with? I know I wouldn't.

Bringing in current employees as scabs is one matter, but asking wet-behind-the-ears new graduates or reject applicants to staff an area during a strike is a different matter. In my opinion AMR's contingency plan is patently reckless, irresponsible and UNSAFE!

 

[DesertMedic66]

Let's not mince words. EMTs and paramedics without 911 experience ARE NOT acceptable substitutes for existing providers. And to argue that they aren't any different perhaps merely demonstrates a lack of experience on your part. Would you want a brand new, inexperienced provider caring for you or your family in an area they are unfamiliar with? I know I wouldn't.

Bringing in current employees as scabs is one matter, but asking wet-behind-the-ears new graduates or reject applicants to staff an area during a strike is a different matter. In my opinion AMR's contingency plan is patently reckless, irresponsible and UNSAFE!

How do you know for sure the people on stand by have zero 911 experience? I honestly don't care if they are brand new and inexperienced as long as they are competent.

You don't have any idea on the people we might possibly send up there nor do I. We really can't make statements about the employees because we do not know.

Pretty sure treating patients is the same no matter where you go (as I found out in New York). In this day and age using the excuse of "well it's a different area" has no truth to the statement it's unsafe. Driving code 3 is all the same anywhere (dangerous). GPS is a lot more accurate. MapBooks don't take a rocket scientist to read and understand.

Please go on Facebook and read the comments on the EMS pages. Experience has nothing to do with how competent a medic/EMT is. "I've been a medic for 25+ years and I give every patient O2 because it's not going to hurt only help them" is one of the many that made me do a facepalm.

 

[9D4]

Let's not mince words. EMTs and paramedics without 911 experience ARE NOT acceptable substitutes for existing providers. And to argue that they aren't any different perhaps merely demonstrates a lack of experience on your part. Would you want a brand new, inexperienced provider caring for you or your family in an area they are unfamiliar with? I know I wouldn't.

Bringing in current employees as scabs is one matter, but asking wet-behind-the-ears new graduates or reject applicants to staff an area during a strike is a different matter. In my opinion AMR's contingency plan is patently reckless, irresponsible and UNSAFE!

Guess what, man? You were in that spot before. They passed that exact same test as you and got that exact same patch.
It's not like the world will end if some guy somehow got lucky enough to get a 911 gig for his first radio.
Secondly, plenty of people get passed over on jobs. I'm sure at one point even yourself did, do you not consider yourself competent any longer? You wanna take a shot at what hiring is for? To fill open spots. Do tons of places not hire like that? Take one, doesn't work out, move on to the next.
At the time, everyone they interviewed could've been competent, they just didn't have room for them in the company. As far as AMR is concerned, they now have 1,800 more open jobs to fill.

 

[SandpitMedic]

Fruitless debates, the lot of them you are having. I see a lot of degenerative and argumentative points being brought up that do nothing to progress or display that "striving" nature to "better out profession" so many of you dream of. It sounds like the kool-aid is strong in this room.

I can identify with the fact of what you guys are trying to accomplish. I truly can, but is irrelevant in the big picture. You're talking about a multi billion dollar grossing company- they do not give two :censored::censored::censored::censored:s about you guys. Truly they don't. And they will not. Not now, not ever! The potential strike to AMR is a drop in the hat... And it's like shooting a BB gun at a freight train. Does that mean you should bend over and take it.... Not necessarily. But where are the suggestions to be progressive, where are the industry changing ideas to correct the problems, where are the new minds to come up with alternatives to still make the company profitable and efficient while still paying that "living wage?" Oh wait... The company isn't listening! Why not write an editorial in the local paper anonymously? Why not put up posters to inform the public that their caretakers and emergency responders are being hustled and abused by corporate America? It is a good time to gain public support while everyone still despises those CEOs. Is it not? I'm talking about the voting public, not the welfare recipients with LED TVs that we frequently take to the ER for toe pain, anxiety, and pain Rx refills.

Someone stated its a problem for privates only caring about the bottom dollar while being the 911 provider for sick and not-so-sick patients. Spot the :censored::censored::censored::censored: on... 100% accurate. However, that is an issue that will have to iron itself out; nothing you do will change that. Municipalities and local governments are the ones who will fix that in time, or maybe they won't.

It's a losing battle. I'm a "12 year old kid" because I realize that this isn't a career or because our education standards meet that of a hot dog on a stick or Starbucks employee? Am I not angry??? I am pissed off! I am so angry that I risk my life and health and safety daily for freaking pennies on the dollar while I actually transport these patients while the firemen show up take a set of vitals, hand off care, and go back to their lazy boy whilst they make 70, 80, 90, 100+ thousand a year with their big boats and nice standard of living.... Does that make me bitter? Does it make me hate my corporation? Kind of... I'd say it makes me 10% angry, but it also makes me 90% MOTIVATED to do what I need to do to better myself, enhance my KSAs, excel my education, and upgrade to a better paying position/career. I don't envy the firemen or loath my corporation; that is the way out field is. And we won't ever change it alone without public support. Corporations have always been about the bottom dollar... Wall Street wasn't built on customer service and treating employees right- I amend that statement to MOST of Wall Street. Main Street maybe, but that's not how America works anymore, thank you free market capitalism. (On an aside, I am not suggesting publicly bashing firemen or any other career as a means of a gainful strategy.)

I'm your brother? Sure, because we share the same professions and are the few who truly understand each others' work and how it affects our personal lives and relationships and finances. I may be a brother, but I am not naive enough to believe that by letting you strike you're going to change anything significantly. I've said it before in this thread in post 87: almost no one wants to be the 22 year private EMS vet hobbling around the ready room with a bad back, busted knees, and bitter persona mumbling to themselves because they beat their bodies to death for 22 years to finally get paid what they should have got paid 20 years in their past. This isn't a career- I'm a kid for thinking along those lines. It's a factual observation of an EMS scene size up. There are a multitude of factors for the way we are paid, perceived, and placated.

This is the issue at hand. Scabs and scalawags be damned... Who cares?! Am I offended that I may be called a scab- not at all. Asinine arguments you guys are having. There will always be someone who will come in and take your job for a cheaper wage... Always. The issue is elementary, and I don't have the ultimate answer on how to change it because frankly I don't think the industry can be changed significantly while private entities own EMS provider services.

It just is what it is. We're a people with personalities that yearn for something to save, something to fix. Unfortunately, private EMS will never be fixed from within. "Resistance is futile!" Better yourself, and move along instead of trying to better a corporation who views you as expendable while you waste your youth and energy.