Rant about how much volunteers are hurting our profession

[Medic744]

Where I am volleys are not treated any different or looked down upon in any way. On scene they wear the same uniform that we do and you cannot tell the difference in any of us. I respect them more for being there when they don't have to and aren't getting paid for it. On both the EMS and Fire side there is a paid crew and volleys to fill in. I have never met a group more dedicated to being there. The EMS volleys are held to the same standards and expectations as the paid crews, including keeping up with training and time put in at the station. I dont believe they are hurting the profession as a whole but think that it may be that some volleys are not the caliber that they need to be. I may be a little biased too since I started here as a volley before going paid and they hold a special place in my heart.

 

[upstateemt]

Where I am volleys are not treated any different or looked down upon in any way. On scene they wear the same uniform that we do and you cannot tell the difference in any of us. I respect them more for being there when they don't have to and aren't getting paid for it. On both the EMS and Fire side there is a paid crew and volleys to fill in. I have never met a group more dedicated to being there. The EMS volleys are held to the same standards and expectations as the paid crews, including keeping up with training and time put in at the station. I dont believe they are hurting the profession as a whole but think that it may be that some volleys are not the caliber that they need to be. I may be a little biased too since I started here as a volley before going paid and they hold a special place in my heart.

Thank you.

I'm heading back to my mostly lurking status. It's threads like this that make me wonder why I bother reading this forum at all. It should, perhaps be renamed "Paid" EMTLIFE. Interesting to note that very seldom does a volunteer start a thread "what's wrong with paid EMT's", generally it's the paid folks looking to tell us that we are inferior.

I cannot get it through my volunteer head WHY you paid people are so threatened by us.

 

[Ridryder911]

Yes, I would and I do. I volunteer my Nursing services with a local Hospice. Your question makes no sense however since like most people I need a paid profession in order to live. No one is faulting paid EMT's for using that skill to make a living we are simply saying don't call us substandard because we chose to volunteer as EMT's rather than be paid.

If money is nothing, then go to EMS full time and nursing as a volunteer nurse? Volunteering occasionally, and not being able to make a livelhood due to a sector is another thing. So you would have no problem of allowing Paramedics to perform in the role of a RN at half the salary and reducing the shortage of need? Replace every other ICU/CCU nurse with a Paramedic at half the cost. You would not mind taking a furlow or having your pay reduced due the need would not be there? ..

Sorry, I have been an RN for over twenty years and I know the uproar anytime there is any discussion of anyone moving in on their turf. So let's be realistic that we as nurses are secure due to our profession fortunately has the fortitude to see that there is a supply & demand to ensure pay.

Talk is cheap.

R/r 911

 

[wyoskibum]

Well here it is folks. Please place your educated responses as to why vollys are hurting the progress of ems.

What is hurting EMS is those in the field that are unprofessional. Being professional has nothing to do about collecting a paycheck. It has everything to do with being the best that you can be. It is about making the effort to continually learn and advance your knowledge.

I've seen some very professional Volunteer and Career people in EMS. Unfortunately, I've seen some very unprofessional people as well.

I think it is easy to blame volunteers became so many do this for the wrong reasons. They are in it for the adrenaline rush, to be able drive with lights and sirens, etc... Any volunteer who has said "I'm just a volunteer" should get out of EMS and do something else.

 

[medic_texas]

I agree with Rid's last point.

I know several volunteers that "triage by address" and won't answer up for calls unless it's something "good". I've had to respond to several calls because non of the volunteers would answer up or were unavailable. I know there are several volunteer EMS agencies that are excellent. I worked for one as the "paid paramedic" while I was in nursing school, and that service had their stuff together. However, it was the leadership that made that service great and the volunteers were very committed to keeping their city covered when they were on call. They were very selective on who they would allow on the service and would turn people away, rather than having someone ruin their reputation.

But on the other hand, they were reimbursed very well. They were paid 25 dollars a call, free uniforms, jackets, training, etc. I'm still on-call there just because of the people and the professionalism. Those places still exist, but yet they DO pay and they are progressive.


EMS needs to change at the top with uniform standards across the country. I think there is a need for volunteers in many rural areas, but too many suburbs take advantage of their near-by paid EMS service and have them run the calls when their vollies are "busy". This has been happening in my area for years.

I think EMS would be a better career if volunteer services were limited to a minimum and held to a higher standard (or even had a set standardization for training, response times, documented contact hours, etc). Most full time agencies have certain requirements and have continuing education on a regular basis.

Just a drop in the bucket for changes that EMS needs to make, IMO.

 

[upstateemt]

If money is nothing, then go to EMS full time and nursing as a volunteer nurse? Volunteering occasionally, and not being able to make a livelhood due to a sector is another thing. So you would have no problem of allowing Paramedics to perform in the role of a RN at half the salary and reducing the shortage of need? Replace every other ICU/CCU nurse with a Paramedic at half the cost. You would not mind taking a furlow or having your pay reduced due the need would not be there? ..

Sorry, I have been an RN for over twenty years and I know the uproar anytime there is any discussion of anyone moving in on their turf. So let's be realistic that we as nurses are secure due to our profession fortunately has the fortitude to see that there is a supply & demand to ensure pay.

Talk is cheap.

R/r 911

Sorry, I fail to follow your logic. You are saying I would be more "professional" if I were a paid EMT and a volunteer RN? I happen to make about twice the going local salary of a Paramedic as an RN. I also have about twice the education, well actually more than twice since I'll be completing my Master's this fall than, a Paramedic has. In NYS many Paramedics do not even hold a degree, they complete an 18 month course and test out. Shame on me for earning a decent living and being educated.

I don't understand your statement about allowing Paramedics to function as Nurses in the ICU...... where did that come from? A volunteer EMT in NYS has EXACTLY the same education and testing as a paid, there is no difference. In the two states I practice nursing in; NY and PA Paramedics are not hired in the ICU. Are you suggesting they should be?

If I am secure in my position it is because of 25 years experience and my education.

Volunteer occasionally? The majority of the volunteers in my agency, and I can only speak for my agency, spend as many hours a week volunteering as they do at their paid positions. I spent 48 hours last week covering ambulance shifts, every hour spent at the Fire House. During my 4-12 hour shifts I responded to 8 calls. Not an overwhelming number indeed, but hardly what I would call "occasional".



I am sorry, I simply don't understand what you are saying.

 

[medic417]

What is hurting EMS is those in the field that are unprofessional. Being professional has nothing to do about collecting a paycheck. It has everything to do with being the best that you can be. It is about making the effort to continually learn and advance your knowledge.

I've seen some very professional Volunteer and Career people in EMS. Unfortunately, I've seen some very unprofessional people as well.

I think it is easy to blame volunteers became so many do this for the wrong reasons. They are in it for the adrenaline rush, to be able drive with lights and sirens, etc... Any volunteer who has said "I'm just a volunteer" should get out of EMS and do something else.

"A professional can be defined as:

a worker required to possess a large body of knowledge derived from extensive academic study, with the training almost always formalized.

Professions are at least to a degree self-regulating, in that they control the training and evaluation processes that admit new persons to the field, and in judging whether the work done by their members is up to standard. This differs from other kinds of work where regulation (if considered necessary) is imposed by the state, or where official quality standards are often lacking. Professions have some historical links to guilds in these regards.

Professionals usually have autonomy in the workplace—they are expected to utilize their independent judgement and professional ethics in carrying out their responsibilities. This holds true even if they are employees instead of working on their own. Typically a professional provides a service (in exchange for payment or salary), in accordance with established protocols for licensing, ethics, procedures, standards of service and training / certification.

The above definitions were echoed by economist and sociologist Max Weber, who noted that professions are defined by the power to exclude and control admission to the profession, as well as by the development of a particular vocabulary specific to the occupation, and at least somewhat incomprehensible to outsiders


So an EMS professional should have education, be able to work w/o immediate supervision, have to attain and maintain certification as required by a group other than government.

Obviously changes are needed for us to meet that definition.

So what is professional EMS? Only a dream. "

http://www.emtcity.com/index.php?showtopic=10124&hl=

 

[JonTullos]

Threads like this used to kindda get me going because I am a volunteer in addition to (now) having a paid EMS gig. However, no matter what's said, everyone has their minds made up and there's no changing them. This is nothing more than a pissing match.

Have fun with it... I'll be in other threads.

Jon

 

[medichopeful]

A volunteer EMT in NYS has EXACTLY the same education and testing as a paid, there is no difference.

They may have the same amount of training, but a paid EMT has much more "on-the-job" experience (which is technically "education") as it is their primary job.

 

[upstateemt]

They may have the same amount of training, but a paid EMT has much more "on-the-job" experience (which is technically "education") as it is their primary job.

Yup, lots of experience with inter facility transfers and wheel chair gigs.

 

[scottyb]

Threads like this used to kindda get me going because I am a volunteer in addition to (now) having a paid EMS gig. However, no matter what's said, everyone has their minds made up and there's no changing them. This is nothing more than a pissing match.

Have fun with it... I'll be in other threads.

Jon

I am with you. Too much poo flinging be productive. Minds are made up and there is going no where but arguments between the two sides. I am a volunteer and this is kind of crap is starting to make me want to skip stopping by emtlife.com.

 

[medic417]

I am with you. Too much poo flinging be productive. Minds are made up and there is going no where but arguments between the two sides. I am a volunteer and this is kind of crap is starting to make me want to skip stopping by emtlife.com.

Well you did not have to open this thread as it was clear based on my title that it is anti volly. Please don't let the internet hit you on the way out.

 

[Chimpie]

You could also argue that vollys are selfish. That they do it for personal glory and satisfaction rather than doing whats best for the patient. That they want to be able to put lights etc on personal cars to draw attn to themselves. etc etc etc etc etc

Do I need to go on?

So there's not a single volunteer that is there for the patient? Are you sure about that?

Thank you.

I'm heading back to my mostly lurking status. It's threads like this that make me wonder why I bother reading this forum at all. It should, perhaps be renamed "Paid" EMTLIFE.

Are you only reading the posts from those who are paid? There have been several pro-volley comments made in this thread.

 

[scottyb]

Well you did not have to open this thread as it was clear based on my title that it is anti volly. Please don't let the internet hit you on the way out.

Nice. You are exactly what I am talking about. You think you're witty, well done, very respectful. It is not just this thread. Paid personnel interject their paid vs volly crap into everything on this site. I was commenting on the fact that this thread is not constructive. Maybe you should read my thread before you comment on it. Volunteer's have been around for pretty much as long as EMS, maybe you should have thought about that before making your career choice. It is nice to know that us volunteers are so well respected by our paid counterparts. I am sorry you feel that our good will is taking money out of your pocket, but get over it. It ain't changing anytime soon.

 

[scottyb]

Are you only reading the posts from those who are paid? There have been several pro-volley comments made in this thread.

And I realize it is not all the paid, but a special chosen few.

 

[medichopeful]

Yup, lots of experience with inter facility transfers and wheel chair gigs.

You do realize that that is valuable experience, correct? The more experience in the medical field, the better.

Someone who just volunteers part time will have a lot less experience than someone who does the job as their career.

 

[cbjfan]

In my area there are some agencies that one could easily tell are vollies. Then there are those, mine included, where you can't tell the difference between the vollies and the paid. As far as vollies not providing a good level of care, well in our county there are 3 ALS departments, 1 paid and 2 vollie (including mine). There is also another paid that is BLS. So that means 2 vollie agencies provide higher care than a paid department. Oh my the world is going to end.

 

[medichopeful]

Volunteer's have been around for pretty much as long as EMS, maybe you should have thought about that before making your career choice.

Are you saying it shouldn't change? Even if it is for the better?

 

[scottyb]

Are you saying it shouldn't change? Even if it is for the better?

I am just saying don't bad talk the type of people that led the way for your chosen profession. It seems counter productive. At least be thankful as a provider that there are people willing to provide care, even though substandard in some people's eyes, to a community (including mine) that can not afford a 24/7 paid department. I don't see this type of bickering between firefighters, at least not to these degree. maybe because there is some tradition and brotherhood there. And they realized they all have a job to do, whether they get paid for it or not. Maybe EMS needs to establish some tradition and gain some sort of sense of brotherhood first. I know some think that is blasphemy, comparing EMS to FD's. Well it is a natural comparison since in most communities they operate hand in hand, out of the same bases in many cases. Like it or not, even though a health care professional, you are still an emergency responder. Maybe it is time to accept that fact instead of bucking it and trying to carve your own little niche by stepping on the heads of good people.

 

[medichopeful]

The only time I will be volunteering is when I am in college, where I will be volunteering with the campus ambulance "company." During the summers, I will be going paid (if everything works out). Once I get out of college, it's full time EMS for me.

Volunteering is the only feasible way for me to work as an EMT in college. Not saying it's great, but it's life. The more experience, the better.
When I can, however, I will make it my career. No more volunteering once I am out of college. I want to dedicate my work time to EMS and EMS alone.