Pt social security number

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risin1

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what are your thoughts on putting the reasoning behind not obtaining a pt social security number in the narrative? Appropriate or not? If so how would you word it? If not, why not?
 
Why would you be collecting and/or putting the SSN in a narrative? Or anywhere for that matter?

Unless your company specifically instructs you to collect it on a billing sheet and has a spot for it, then there is zero reason to collect it. In all my years, the ONLY time I had or knew a patient's SSN was when I was doing interfacility transports and it was either on their discharge paperwork or was part of their Medicare number.
 
I agree with Akflightmedic. In my experience, the face sheet and pcs rarely have the pt's SSN. I work IFT and we almost never require it.
 
akflightmedic said:
Why would you be collecting and/or putting the SSN in a narrative? Or anywhere for that matter?

Unless your company specifically instructs you to collect it on a billing sheet and has a spot for it, then there is zero reason to collect it. In all my years, the ONLY time I had or knew a patient's SSN was when I was doing interfacility transports and it was either on their discharge paperwork or was part of their Medicare number.
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Our company requires us to obtain any, and all info when feasible regardless of the nature of the call (911 vs. IFT).

If we can't get it, and/ or the patient doesn't have, or know it we're required to document that in our narrative.

I am by no means a billing or Medicare reimbursement guru, so if they don't know it, don't have it, don't want to give it out, or can't remember it I just put something along the lines of "U.T.O. SSN"; done, and done.

I can understand not everyone wanting to dole out their social all willy nilly, so I don't really push the issue. There are, at times, slightly more pressing things in my job description.
 
We have spots for it.... 9/10 times I just type:

999-99-9999.

Simple. If mgmt asked me 10 times why I didn't obtain, I've got 10 different reasons.

Let the billing folks take care of that.
 
I'm required to obtain this (when I can). Why? Billing, I'm sure. It's also a unique identifier, so that's...something?
 
Signatures and SSN are pretty important to our billing dept and I make a reasonable attempt to get both. If a medical card is handy, I place less emphasis on SSN but will ask. SSN should have a spot in the demographics but does not belong in a narrative, IMO


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PCR (demographics), yes. Narrative - never heard of, and doesn't seem reasonable.
 
No, my PCR has a box for the ssn. I usually try to get it since I can use it to see if their info is already in our database.
 
StCEMT said:
No, my PCR has a box for the ssn. I usually try to get it since I can use it to see if their info is already in our database.
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This! I miss this option in our ePCR program. Good ol "copy and paste".
 
Why I ask is because we have a spot for the ss# in the pcr. If we are unable to obtain they want us to put that in our narrative, and why. I personally don't feel it belongs in the narrative at all.
 
I would ask a clarifying question and make sure that's what they want you to do. If the company wants you to put "Note: Unable to obtain SSN; pt did not know it" in the narrative, I would not push back. I find it neither appropriate nor particularly inappropriate. A comment box in the demographics section seems better, but it's not worth potentially being considered a difficult employee.


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gotshirtz001 said:
I would ask a clarifying question and make sure that's what they want you to do. If the company wants you to put "Note: Unable to obtain SSN; pt did not know it" in the narrative, I would not push back. I find it neither appropriate nor particularly inappropriate. A comment box in the demographics section seems better, but it's not worth potentially being considered a difficult employee.


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Op, this. There are other things to focus on as a care provider.

Go with the flow, and do your job. These questions could probably be best answered by your billing department, supervisor, and/ or QA coordinator.
 
We are required to obtain as much Pt info as practical, including SSN. It's not coded in our ePCR as a "critical" field (i.e. I can leave the box blank and it'll upload, but I HAVE to put in something for Pt name, birthday, address and phone number before the program will allow me to upload).

If we're unable to obtain any of that Pt info we're supposed to put in a sentence in the narrative explaining. Pretty easy to just say "Pt unable to recall SSN at time of transport" or "Pt declined to provide SSN" or "Unable to obtain Pt information due to Pt not alert secondary to major trauma" etc. And they're happy enough with that.
 
We're supposed to get SSN. If we don't it's not a crisis but it is something we're "supposed" to get. I ask for it, I enter it. I have had a few patients refuse to give it, I said "ok" and moved on without pushing the issue.
 
If it is helpful if we get it. I would never put it in the narrative though.

Also if I have their social, I can import demographics if we have previously transported them.
 
Tigger said:
If it is helpful if we get it. I would never put it in the narrative though.

Also if I have their social, I can import demographics if we have previously transported them.
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This
 
Yes, because asking name, birthday, address, sex and race is far too time consuming. I get it. :)
 
akflightmedic said:
Yes, because asking name, birthday, address, sex and race is far too time consuming. I get it. :)
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And physical address, mailing address, phone, insurance information, district residency, next of kin, and previously reported medical history. All that I otherwise have to hunt and peck on a tablet to type otherwise.

So yes, I guess I'm lazy.
 
I don't understand the whole argument that "we have more pressing things to do."

While sometimes it's true the vast majority of the time it is not and it takes 5 seconds to ask.

In my 5 coming up on 6 years in the field I've only had a handful of people refuse to give it. If they do I don't push the issue.

People make the argument all the time that billing isn't our job but ultimately it is...if your agency can't bill for a transport that's money that the agency won't be reimbursed for. That happens enough times and budgets start taking a hit.

Along with the usual name, DOB, address and phone number we always ask for their insurance company, at minimum. Ideally we enter their ID number and group number as well as a primary contact for the insurance if it isn't them.

We also have to select if they live in our county, our neighbor county or "other" because since we're tax funded being a resident or not changes their base rate on their bill.

We also do itemized billing so I have to select the different supplies we used.

If we can't get billing info we can't get it but if it happens habitually we hear about it from command staff.


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