Pro-Transport (bay area)

[JPINFV]

Firing people because they voted to unionize is a violation of Federal labor laws.

Let's be fair though. It's not that hard at most ambulance companies to built a for cause termination case. There's enough 'freelancing' outside of the rules because on one end you have the problem employees and on the other end you have the good employees who are essentially forced to work outside of the rules that are laid down because of the problem employees.

 

[Johnny Foley]

Pro Trans is engaging in illegal activity

Pro is and has been engaging in illegal activity, and it wasn't the justice dept that got involved, it was the NLRB. Just following their last election, they were slapped with an injuction basically telling them to stop breaking just about every rule from the NLRA. A few employees illegally put on suspension were awarded a few months back pay.

And they have been breaking all the same laws again prior to this recent union vote - coercion, bribes, intimidation. They are even paying a stool from the East Coast to come and bad mouth the union. That is salary they could spend on employees, training, benefits, etc.

It doesn't matter who you work for, what occupation you hold, or your level of professionalism. You are going to work hard to make someone who works less hard rich. Period. AMR is no different than Pro in that respect. Everyone in this thread is an EMS worker first, and an employee second.

 

[JPINFV]

And they have been breaking all the same laws again prior to this recent union vote - coercion, bribes, intimidation. They are even paying a stool from the East Coast to come and bad mouth the union. That is salary they could spend on employees, training, benefits, etc.

...and this is the problem with unions. Once unions are involved, it becomes an 'us vs them' situation and the company has much less reason to do anything than the bare minimum that is required by the labor agreement.

It doesn't matter who you work for, what occupation you hold, or your level of professionalism. You are going to work hard to make someone who works less hard rich. Period. AMR is no different than Pro in that respect. Everyone in this thread is an EMS worker first, and an employee second.

How exactly are you going to quantify work and value added to the company?

 

[Johnny Foley]

...and this is the problem with unions. Once unions are involved, it becomes an 'us vs them' situation and the company has much less reason to do anything than the bare minimum that is required by the labor agreement.


It is naive to think that it is not already an "us vs them" situation, which is and always was created by the company. Healthcare is big business, maybe the biggest currently in this country and companies already do have a reason to give the bare minimum: their bottom line. With companies like pro the entire industry suffers because of the poor treatment of their employees. They are not trained properly on the job - which in EMS is the only way to be trained, not on any dummy - they are pushed around by mgmt, causing pt care to suffer, and causing the entire image of EMS to stay shoddy. The owners of Pro are getting filthy rich off the work of their EMT's.

The union is one component of improving work relations. Another is accepting the belief that, as in any job, the more you only look out for yourself, the harder it will always be to progress and accomplish things because with a workforce only looking out for themselves, its like having 100 babies for only two breasts. I'm not talking strike, but if you can just get your coworkers to genuinely consider themselves 2nd, then the union becomes the most effective tool there is for getting what you need.

People shouldn't let the rep of past unions determine their own involvement.

 

[MrBrown]

Did you actually research any of the following before you started? Did you ask about pay, benefits, quality assurance, work schedules etc?

The US EMT-B is the lowest entry to practice standard in the developed world and has the lowest pay I have seen of any country and I'd say the two go hand in hand.

If you didn't do your homework before starting it's no good coming here and whnging about it.

 

[Johnny Foley]

Did you actually research any of the following before you started? Did you ask about pay, benefits, quality assurance, work schedules etc?

The US EMT-B is the lowest entry to practice standard in the developed world and has the lowest pay I have seen of any country and I'd say the two go hand in hand.

If you didn't do your homework before starting it's no good coming here and whnging about it.

Homework about what?! I know what my coworkers get paid, and I know the kind of routinely dangerous, intense things we do for our money. I also know all about the benefits, schedules, labor laws, OSHA regulations, and mandatory training involved.

People don't get into EMS because they want easy money, they do it because they want to help people, do something that changes from day to day, and something that provides a small measure of emotion into their lives. You can keep all the high paying, hedge fund manager positions and real estate brokers, and IT jobs, because when it really comes down to it - the CA Big One, terrorist attack, Hurricane, etc. - you still do not have a skill as essential as mine.

Also, you made a remark about doing homework and you can't even spell "whining".

 

[VentMedic]

People don't get into EMS because they want easy money, they do it because they want to help people, do something that changes from day to day, and something that provides a small measure of emotion into their lives.

You are kidding yourself there.

EMT-B can take all of 3 weeks to obtain and Paramedic in CA is only a little over 1000 hours of training. It is the easy cert to get for those who don't want to go to school for a whole 2 years of education. Let's not forget that "I wanna be a FF thing". Some get into it because of the cool stuff they see on TV, the uniform and the L&S. The respect they think the uniform and truck will bring them "small measure of emotion into their lives" quickly. Patient care is rarely a thought. In fact some are surprised when they aren't running L&S all day to cool traumas and that you actually have to touch patients. The 10 hours of EMT-B clinicals may not have given them a good view of what their job was about. Read some of the posts on this forum and you can see that also.

I have worked EMS for many years and now see it as Flight/Specialty at scene and in the hospital. When you see over 50 different ambulance crews a day you can usually tell who actually cares what is on the stretcher. UPS gives more attention to packages than some EMTs do to their patients. I do know some of the issues about your company but again, they are not much different than other ambulance services in the Bay area.

If you have 50% of your employees who actually care about patient care, consider your company very lucky. That means doing attentive patient care even on the routine transports which waiting for "the CA Big One, terrorist attack, Hurricane, etc".

 

[JPINFV]

It is naive to think that it is not already an "us vs them" situation, which is and always was created by the company. Healthcare is big business, maybe the biggest currently in this country and companies already do have a reason to give the bare minimum: their bottom line. With companies like pro the entire industry suffers because of the poor treatment of their employees. They are not trained properly on the job - which in EMS is the only way to be trained, not on any dummy - they are pushed around by mgmt, causing pt care to suffer, and causing the entire image of EMS to stay shoddy. The owners of Pro are getting filthy rich off the work of their EMT's.

You know, it's funny because I worked for two years for one of those 'avoid at all costs' type companies and I never had any serious problems with upper management, despite having a handful of major incidences (including one time when I got in a yelling match with a crew chief). One of the few reasons that I can credit not being fired was the fact that I always tried to work with management and not against them. Working with management is simple too. If you have problems, bring them up early while they're small. Don't try to hide things. Most importantly (and the problem I saw with a lot of my coworkers) is to show up and actually work. I completely agree with Mike Rowe that we, as a society, has declared war on work (skip to the 16 minute mark). If you show up to work and expect to do the bare minimum for a lot of money, then yea. You're going to have problems and problems that no union will fix. Of course all of this changes with a union. After all, why introduce a new piece of equipment, more CEs, or give someone a merit based raise if you could hold out till the current contract expires and use it for leverage?

Furthermore, the only way that they can rip you off is if you let them. Work hard, get noticed, and then negotiate a higher wage. If conditions are truly that atrocious, then find another job and get the hell out of dodge.


As far as the bare minimum training, I blame the low education standards before I will blame any single country.

 

[Johnny Foley]

You know, it's funny because I worked for two years for one of those 'avoid at all costs' type companies and I never had any serious problems with upper management, despite having a handful of major incidences (including one time when I got in a yelling match with a crew chief). One of the few reasons that I can credit not being fired was the fact that I always tried to work with management and not against them. Working with management is simple too. If you have problems, bring them up early while they're small. Don't try to hide things. Most importantly (and the problem I saw with a lot of my coworkers) is to show up and actually work. I completely agree with Mike Rowe that we, as a society, has declared war on work (skip to the 16 minute mark). If you show up to work and expect to do the bare minimum for a lot of money, then yea. You're going to have problems and problems that no union will fix. Of course all of this changes with a union. After all, why introduce a new piece of equipment, more CEs, or give someone a merit based raise if you could hold out till the current contract expires and use it for leverage?

Furthermore, the only way that they can rip you off is if you let them. Work hard, get noticed, and then negotiate a higher wage. If conditions are truly that atrocious, then find another job and get the hell out of dodge.


Union fixes things - the union is not just there to earn workers more money. That is true yes, but the motivation is to earn the money that the workers deserve. And they deserve it just as much as the supe or HR lady who comes in at 9, has a sit down lunch 12 - 2, and leaves at 4:45. The union stewards, lawyers, and labor reps are there to protect employees from dirty mgmt behavior. Negotiaiting better contracts is a part of that.

Work hard and get noticed?? All the EMTs and Medics I know already work hard. Do you think that will get you a raise if the shareholders or bosses decide that its time to increase UHU's or productivity? Americans have not declared a war on work, they are sick of the constant competition for decent wages and work conditions. How can you sincerely care day in and day out about that junky or drunk who abuses 911 constantly, or that sweet old lady, or that biker who got hit by the DWI, when you can not even get the hours you need to pay rent and bills because your company just took two cars off the street?

As far as relations with mgmt goes, the union stance is "work to the rule", no more no less. It is not up to the one getting taken advantage of to extend themselves to those getting paid more, for doing less. If a union is strong and cohesive, mgmt will come to them, not the other way around as you suggest.



Also, I think that there is a real misconception about EMTs looking for quick money. That seems to me to be a myth. From my own experience everyone I work with - including at my company, other companies in town, ex-employees now with fire, ridealongs, etc. - all are fully aware of the amount of effort involved in making a career in EMS. Of the 80 or so people in my company, there are only a handful who are not also in school, or also an ER tech, or doing a medic internship, or union stewards, or single parents, or vol. fire, or any number of other things. That is on top of an avg. 48 hr work week. The whole point is to stop bad mouthing EMS workers, young or old, and start helping them all out by organizing.

Last point: if you want to see why people really get into EMS, volunteer sometime at a first aid tent, or medical standby, or something similar. For example: San Francisco Pride Parade. Why else would someone spend an entire weekend wiping puke off of teenagers, splinting and swathing, transporting drunks, bleeding control, rehydrating old people, and getting sunburnt - for no pay?! Its the occupation first, and the company second.

 

[JPINFV]

Work hard and get noticed?? All the EMTs and Medics I know already work hard. Do you think that will get you a raise if the shareholders or bosses decide that its time to increase UHU's or productivity? Americans have not declared a war on work, they are sick of the constant competition for decent wages and work conditions. How can you sincerely care day in and day out about that junky or drunk who abuses 911 constantly, or that sweet old lady, or that biker who got hit by the DWI, when you can not even get the hours you need to pay rent and bills because your company just took two cars off the street?

First off, unions won't decrease frequent flier calls. Sorry, but the fact that you even brought that up simply means that your trust in the union is misplaced. As far as caring about them, is it simply too much to ask that you do your job without moaning about patients to patients? The patients aren't the ones deciding your wage and to even contemplate taking out your gripes with your company on them (which is implied by the argument that it's hard to care) is rather sad.

Similarly, welcome to a market based economy. Yes, you are in competition to improve yourself and prove your worth to the company. What else besides ability (proven and potential) should decide who get's raises and who get's promotion? Who ever the union decides? Time on the job? Who's to say that the person there for 20 years deserves a promotion over the person there 10 years?

Furthermore, sorry the company is there to make money. In that effort, workers are there to trade their time and energy for money. It's not a one way street since things like morale, wages, perks, and other benefits directly affects the companies retention rate (consider, for a moment, that given 3 day orientation period and 3 days of FTO time, a new EMT-B costs something around $540 give a $10/hr wage. That adds up quickly), applicant pool, and ultimately the bottom line. However, if you think that a company exists to serve its employees then you are simply mistaken. Unions ultimately change that. They just change the route taken and not always for the better. Ask the grocery checkers following their strikes in So Cal around 2003-2004.

As far as relations with mgmt goes, the union stance is "work to the rule", no more no less. It is not up to the one getting taken advantage of to extend themselves to those getting paid more, for doing less. If a union is strong and cohesive, mgmt will come to them, not the other way around as you suggest.

So, in other words if I wanted to work harder to get ahead and take on extra responsibilities to prove my worth and increase my value to the company, I'm going to have some union slug come along and tell me to knock it off because I'm making the rest of the slugs look bad? Cool beans.

That is on top of an avg. 48 hr work week. The whole point is to stop bad mouthing EMS workers, young or old, and start helping them all out by organizing.

Why would I help someone do something that's ultimately detrimental. Unions had their place, but that time has long gone. For the most part, unions only serve to protect people who should have been fired a long time ago. Hey, has Boston Fire stopped objecting to mandatory drug screening yet? I guess the bottom line for the union is more important than fire fighters lives. Right CaHill and Payne? I guess contract negotiations are more important than keeping druggies and drunks out of the fire house.

 

[Johnny Foley]

First off, unions won't decrease frequent flier calls. Sorry, but the fact that you even brought that up simply means that your trust in the union is misplaced. As far as caring about them, is it simply too much to ask that you do your job without moaning about patients to patients? The patients aren't the ones deciding your wage and to even contemplate taking out your gripes with your company on them (which is implied by the argument that it's hard to care) is rather sad.

It was never implied that whining about pts to pts, or a lessening in care was acceptable or advocated. What i'm saying is that it is difficult to maintain focus and a sincerely positive attitude when there are things hanging heavy over your head such as your financial responsibilities, unsure job security, coworkers losing jobs, bad benefits, and the like. The analogy - somewhat dramatic but accurate - is soldiers vs. policy makers. Do you think that a marine PFC who just heard that his tour has been mandatorily extended is going to be personable to anyone? The same applies to an EMT or Medic who just learned that a large percent of his earnings - not mgmt's - will be cut due to a freeze in OT.




Similarly, welcome to a market based economy. Yes, you are in competition to improve yourself and prove your worth to the company.



This is the tired old "well thats the way it is" argument. A market based economy FUBAR'd the tech industry, the housing market, hundreds of thousands of working people, and continues to FUBAR the healthcare system, the country's infrastruicture, outsources jobs, the public education system. Ahh, that is another topic for another forum...However, the free market bailed out those who caused the housing market crash. I'm not advocating for anything radical, i'm just saying that to invoke the name of the holy free market economy may not be OK anymore. It is as much a problem, as it is the great definer of our society



However, if you think that a company exists to serve its employees then you are simply mistaken.

I'm not naive enough to think that. I know what the company wants from me and I made that understanding clear in earlier posts. The company is huge and I am small, but with a union - the complete closed shop participation of all its memebers across company boundaries - I can be as big as them. Then I can contribute to the improvement of all working conditions, which will improve patient care. Aside from being dirty, everyone knows that a good deal of EMS mgmt is inept. Collectively, maybe along side the company maybe not, unions could run EMS organizations 10 times more effieciently.



So, in other words if I wanted to work harder to get ahead and take on extra responsibilities to prove my worth and increase my value to the company, I'm going to have some union slug come along and tell me to knock it off because I'm making the rest of the slugs look bad? Cool beans.


No, you work in a team oriented industry, so the more you help others first, the more you help yourself. According to your reasoning if a new EMT came up to you with a question or for advice you would tell him to F off, because the better an employee he is, the bigger competition he will be for you. Thats the problem with a free market model: it would be totally OK to backstab even your own mother, if you two were vying for the same job or raise. And if you did, you could feel proud about it because the market rewards thriftiness. And I already hear you saying "well that competition brings innovation!" Wrong. Innovation is teamwork and understanding that you can accompish ten times as much with help.



Unions had their place, but that time has long gone. For the most part, unions only serve to protect people who should have been fired a long time ago.


Unions were pushed out by interests even more greedy than mgmt. If the place you refer to was the earlier part of this century, remember that unions were in fact pushed out violently, with a lot of casualty. And as far as unions protecting people who should be fired, maybe termination is a hasty solution. What ever happened to remediation and education. Why so quick to axe your fellow EMS workers? You seem to have a deep concern for yourself, can you spare some for the person who works alongside you?

Unions are the only way to advance EMS to a stature comparable to fire, police, in-hospital workers, and the like. The company's bottom line is an obstacle to that progress, so with a unionized workforce that line can be stepped over.

 

[46Young]

I've worked for union and non union employers alike. The union shops have ensured a liveable wage more or less on par with other local civil service jobs, an objective promotional list based on test scores as well as credentials and oral interviews (preventing cronyism), progressive, documented discipline (to prevent admin from removing someone based on personal dislike), better working conditions, and being required to consider employee's wants and needs during negotiations. Negotiations, give and take, not dominance by admin or dominance by the union.

The alternative is working in substandard conditions for low pay, MAYBE getting a small raise if management feels like it, promotion due to favoritism, being forced to resign after amassing a paper trail (being written up for things that no one else has, something that union borne progressive discipline prevents), shoddy medical benefits, admin not willing to entertain forward thinking by field personnel.

In today's environment it's as important as ever to have a safe, secure job with decent benefits and a liveable wage. Sure, union shops can suffer layoffs, but that has been to a much lesser extent within public service when compared to corporate America, small businesses and all. You'll have slackers in union shops, sure, but that's what SOP's, GOP's and progressive discipline are for. Admin would do well to have those in place as a condition of the contract.

Without a union, maybe you'll get a decent wage, maybe you'll be promoted, maybe you won't be driven out by a hostile supervisor with something against you personally.

With a union, you don't have to deal with any of that nonsense. I'll take that over being unprotected in a potentially hostile environment hands down. Money makes the world go 'round. Anyone who chooses not to get their piece will be left out in the cold. Take whatever hookups and handouts you can get. Whatever you're not getting, someone else is (in this case the Pro Txp owners). Ask anyone who lost their shirts in the stock market. The money didn't disappear, it just went to someone else.

 

[JPINFV]

It was never implied that whining about pts to pts, or a lessening in care was acceptable or advocated. What i'm saying is that it is difficult to maintain focus and a sincerely positive attitude when there are things hanging heavy over your head such as your financial responsibilities, unsure job security, coworkers losing jobs, bad benefits, and the like. The analogy - somewhat dramatic but accurate - is soldiers vs. policy makers. Do you think that a marine PFC who just heard that his tour has been mandatorily extended is going to be personable to anyone? The same applies to an EMT or Medic who just learned that a large percent of his earnings - not mgmt's - will be cut due to a freeze in OT.

...

Why so quick to axe your fellow EMS workers? You seem to have a deep concern for yourself, can you spare some for the person who works alongside you?

First, your analogy fails because unless the soldier is dealing directly with representatives of the federal government, then s/he isn't dealing with customers.

Second, now that you've made clear that you don't really care how you act in front of patients (customers) if you get a late call and that one of the major boons of union life is the protection of people who should be fired, this conversation is over. There's no sense in discussing work with someone who doesn't understand what a work ethic is.

 

[Johnny Foley]

The Truth!

First, your analogy fails because unless the soldier is dealing directly with representatives of the federal government, then s/he isn't dealing with customers.

Second, now that you've made clear that you don't really care how you act in front of patients (customers) if you get a late call and that one of the major boons of union life is the protection of people who should be fired, this conversation is over. There's no sense in discussing work with someone who doesn't understand what a work ethic is.

Alright, from your earlier posts JPINV you have made it clear that:

1. You will step on a coworker to get ahead.
2. You will approach mgmt with problems before they get to big, i.e. you will rat out coworkers
3. You don't understand or care that fatigue - mental and physical - is a real part of EMS.
4. Union stewards who HELP employees through disciplines, education, and keeping them at work (for no extra pay!!), are really just SLUGS.
5. Seniority for raises/promotions shouldn't matter
6. You don't understand that if EMT's could say what is really on their minds, they would all get fired b/c not only is mgmt pretty inept, but also vindictive.

So, I think i've figured your true identity: You are either the owner of Protransport, or the latest new supervisor.


In my last post I wrote about 700 words. You took out one sentence that was part of an admittidely stretched analogy, and trashed me over that? Where's any defense of the free market you hold up? Where's your American history knowledge defending your postition on the demise of Unionism? I asserted that you would stab your own mother to get ahead in the company, and you didn't defend yourself in your next post. And you still seem sincerely eager to fire anyone at the drop of a hat.

If you are a manager, you need to see yourself more in the light of a public representative, like a senator. The people "underneath" you benefit more from a cohesive environment, not competitive, and you are the one to give it to them, until the union decides to take it from you. If you are an employee, stop badmouthing, backstabbing, stepping on, and generally being a difficult person to your coworkers. Yeah you are competing for the same crumbs, but you are both completely equal human beings.

 

[JPINFV]

Alright, from your earlier posts JPINV you have made it clear that:

1. You will step on a coworker to get ahead.
2. You will approach mgmt with problems before they get to big, i.e. you will rat out coworkers
3. You don't understand or care that fatigue - mental and physical - is a real part of EMS.
4. Union stewards who HELP employees through disciplines, education, and keeping them at work (for no extra pay!!), are really just SLUGS.
5. Seniority for raises/promotions shouldn't matter
6. You don't understand that if EMT's could say what is really on their minds, they would all get fired b/c not only is mgmt pretty inept, but also vindictive.

Alternatively:

1. I do my work and don't expect to be held back from doing my work because 'I'm making someone else look bad.'

2. Not all problems are interpersonal, however I do expect my coworkers to act professionally while on the job. They're wearing the same uniform I am, thus they are ultimately a reflection on me.
So, I think i've figured your true identity: You are either the owner of Protransport, or the latest new supervisor.

3. I understand that just because I'm fatigued doesn't mean I get to be an a-hole to patients and other health care workers.

4. Yes.. union officials, such as the ones fighting to keep druggies and drunks at Boston FD, are slugs. Union officials who get mad at members who go beyond the job description are slugs. We can agree on that point.

5. Why should seniority matter over ability? Do you eat moldy cheese because it has seniority over the other cheeses?

6. I've never had a problem speaking my mind. This includes a time I told an operations manager that his FTO was being asinine. When told why the FTO was being asinine and why I refused to do what I was told, he agreed with me. No... I didn't get in trouble for that. No, I don't need a union official taking money out of my pay check to pat my head, wipe my bum, and protect me from management.

If you are a manager, you need to see yourself more in the light of a public representative, like a senator. The people "underneath" you benefit more from a cohesive environment, not competitive, and you are the one to give it to them, until the union decides to take it from you. If you are an employee, stop badmouthing, backstabbing, stepping on, and generally being a difficult person to your coworkers. Yeah you are competing for the same crumbs, but you are both completely equal human beings.

No. I am not a manager. Additionally, you have no clue what type of employee I am. I'm not going to hide things to protect coworkers, however I have absolutely zero problem going to bat for them when needed. Yea... sorry, but I have no problem being "a rat" and turning in idiots who do things like text in front of a patient during a transport. Sorry, but unlike unions, I have a work ethic and standards.

 

[Johnny Foley]

This thread is starting to get repetitive aand argumentative so this the last post from me...

Alternatively:

1. I do my work and don't expect to be held back from doing my work because 'I'm making someone else look bad.'

No one said that you doing your job has to make someone else look bad.

2. Not all problems are interpersonal, however I do expect my coworkers to act professionally while on the job. They're wearing the same uniform I am, thus they are ultimately a reflection on me.

And you are a reflection on them, so work TOGETHER to get your job done, get your problems taken care of, improve each others work conditions, and maybe you BOTH can get a raise. DO NOT expect someone to act profesionally around you when it is known that you are a scab and wouldn't back them up when they need it. Encouraging distrust is not a way to act "professional

3. I understand that just because I'm fatigued doesn't mean I get to be an a-hole to patients and other health care workers.

Again, read the post. Twice if you need to. Nobody said a-hole. I will take care of my pt to the best of my abilities no matter what the external situation with my coworkers, company is. Period. If your suggestion is that there is only two ways to act while doing this - 1. Airline stewardess level chipper attitude, or 2. a-hole - then you must run 1, maybe 2 calls in a shift to have that robotic level of false-faceness.

4. Yes.. union officials, such as the ones fighting to keep druggies and drunks at Boston FD, are slugs. Union officials who get mad at members who go beyond the job description are slugs. We can agree on that point.

I don't know about Boston FD, so I can't comment. No one is advocating that to go above your responsibilities is a bad thing. BUT, if that includes ratting, polishing the boots of mgmt, discouraging union activity, improving your own position at the expense of another coworker, or disrepecting anyone for not doing any of the above, then I hope your union rep chews you a new one.

5. Why should seniority matter over ability? Do you eat moldy cheese because it has seniority over the other cheeses?

This is ridiculous. If you work in EMS you know that anyone with more experience than yourself has seen more, done more, lived through nastier things, more dangerous situations, more violent 5150's, more gruesome scenes, done CPR successfully more than you, got more lines, dropped more tubes, delivered more babies, seen more dead, and just generally LIVED more. For you to suggest that because someone kisses mgmt's a-hole, and does and says what mgmt asks, they should get a promotion over the medic who has more yrs on the job!?!? This indusrty more than any other with the exception of maybe MD surgery, is entirely about experience. You can read the Mosby paramedic textbook 50,000 times, and still not understand the intricacies of dropping a crich tube. And what to do with a 14-day old DOA. Or a multiple GSW to the face, alive with no managable airway. These are all things that experienced medics have dealt with multiple times.

Yes, that is an extreme degree of the argument, but its the truth. If you mean there is a guy who can do 4 IFT's in a day who has worked for 6 months and a guy who can only do 3 IFT's who has worked for a year, that the 6 month guy should be promoted? All I can say is get over yourself. In this scenario all you are getting promoted for is for being a better cash cow for mgmt. To even have a debate about seniority is stupid and insulting, and if you don't get why seniority in EMS is why people get promoted than you should get out of management - and EMS.

6. I've never had a problem speaking my mind. This includes a time I told an operations manager that his FTO was being asinine. When told why the FTO was being asinine and why I refused to do what I was told, he agreed with me. No... I didn't get in trouble for that. No, I don't need a union official taking money out of my pay check to pat my head, wipe my bum, and protect me from management.

So, maybe you are a big strong tough guy. Maybe your OPs mgr is a pushover. Maybe there are EMS workers who are 50 times more caring with pts. and quicker studies at learning their protocols, and better at dealing with emergencies than you, who have issues dealing with mgmt. Maybe an OPS mgr is a bigot, and you are Black or Latino. Maybe your OPS mgr is a pig and you are an attractive woman. Maybe you have problems with authority figures but can talk to a teenage suicide attempt in a way that they can relate to. Some exceptional workers need the assitance of someone with no agenda sometimes, i.e. Union Stewards. You should get down off of your high horse of Employee of the Month/Year, and show some humility, and maybe recognize that if you keep up your stance of ME, ME, ME, than somewhere down the line you will be looking around frantically for a helping hand which won't be there.

No. I am not a manager. Additionally, you have no clue what type of employee I am. I'm not going to hide things to protect coworkers, however I have absolutely zero problem going to bat for them when needed. Yea... sorry, but I have no problem being "a rat" and turning in idiots who do things like text in front of a patient during a transport. Sorry, but unlike unions, I have a work ethic and standards.

C'mon. Be a man and talk to your partner first instead of running off and ratting on them. Afterall a rat is just the grown-up term for "tattle-tale". Or show them the respect enough to go to your union rep first who has both of your interests in mind, not the company's.

Again, to reiterate, Unions can get you more than you can get yourself. It is a proven, documented fact that union shops earn more money, benefits, better conditions for their members than non-union. Unions improve the wages of minorities and women, improve pt care, and improve relations with the communities that they work in. Can you do any of this stuff all by yourself? No. You can only help yourself and tattle on you partner in the process.

 

[JPINFV]

Why should I show respect to people who refuse to show respect to patients? How about supporting professionalism over grade school "tattle teller" BS?

 

[Johnny Foley]

Talking to your partner first is more professional and respectful than telling mgmt about their inappropriate behavior. Period. Thats what a partner is, an equal. The ability to handle problems amongst your peers is a professional attribute and a required skill in any high-stress occupation like EMS. Like I said, be a man, and don't go off and tell daddy(mgmt).

 

[VentMedic]

Unions improve the wages of minorities and women, improve pt care, and improve relations with the communities that they work in. Can you do any of this stuff all by yourself? No. You can only help yourself and tattle on you partner in the process.

Do you want to explain some of this? How does the union improve patient care? Many union leaders could not tell you the difference between an EMT and a Paramedic. At far as the women and minorities thing, look at the recent legal decisions in the courts for reverse discrimination and yes, unions were involved. Thus, unions do not make the laws of the country and there are associations who don't take the money of the employees who have these interests in view.

Last point: if you want to see why people really get into EMS, volunteer sometime at a first aid tent, or medical standby, or something similar. For example: San Francisco Pride Parade. Why else would someone spend an entire weekend wiping puke off of teenagers, splinting and swathing, transporting drunks, bleeding control, rehydrating old people, and getting sunburnt - for no pay?! Its the occupation first, and the company second.

The fact that you have pointed out minorities, women and now the SF Pride Parade seems to indicate you have some other personal issues. There are many bigger festivals in SF besides the Pride parade for you to have used as an example. I don't know of any ambulance in that city that is a volunteer service. The EMTs on the ambulances working in the Bay area are paid. However, the medical booths at some events are ran by the hospitals and are part paid and part volunteer. Some do it for a point or two on their evaluations in the community service section. Thus, it is not without some benefit.

The one thing a union can do is keep someone who has better education with experience from being promoted when some deadbeat has more senority. Promoting one individual who has less senority but more education would be detrimental to their message of "equal opportunity" to all. But for the EMTs who want no part of education, unions are great as they can protect the employees when their employers try to force mandatory educational inservices on them.

C'mon. Be a man and talk to your partner first instead of running off and ratting on them. Afterall a rat is just the grown-up term for "tattle-tale". Or show them the respect enough to go to your union rep first who has both of your interests in mind, not the company's.

If someone is screwing up to where it puts the patient and my license at risk, I am not going to the union but rather through the proper chain of command and to the state licensing agency if necessary. Patients deserve accountability of those administering medical care. EMS is about the lives of patients and not stuffing boxes on an assembly line. The unions have no interest in patient care or what your responsibilities are to holding a certification or license.

Again, there are patients involved who must be considered and they are the ones done a great disservice by the unions. You are in California and have not learned anything from Vallejo or the city of Alameda. What about the issues of San Francisco? How about the FF who worked 19 straight shifts? The union supported him. Safe with the public's interest in mind?

What about all the BS unions spend millions of dollars of both taxpayers and employees to support their own cause? Hell they don't even think their own employees are smart enough to make an election decision and tell them how to vote as well as taking their money to support the union's favorite candidate or bill that does the public or anyone but themselves any good.

 

[Johnny Foley]

Do you want to explain some of this? How does the union improve patient care? Many union leaders could not tell you the difference between an EMT and a Paramedic.

The union I am referring to - not neccesarily a part or or advocate of - is NEMSA, which is technically a craft union/mutual aid association completely made up of EMS professionals who know the difference btw EMT, MEDIC, IFT, 911 contract, BLS, ALS, CCT, bs, etc. And happier employees, who have collectively organized to solve many issues that mgmt could not - supply requisition, ambulance repair, scheduling conflicts - can offer better pt care. EMS mgmt is inept as far as I have seen it, partly because the care and transportation of sick and injured individuals is a concept that can never mesh with profits.

Thus, unions do not make the laws of the country and there are associations who don't take the money of the employees who have these interests in view.

Thats great that there are associations interested in supporting issues in EMS. They get their funding from elsewhere, so what? Is it taxdollars? Is it grants? Donations? Who cares? The union does not take profits. It pays its full-time employees a living wage as it should, and it pays its lawyers their fees. All their financial information is available for anyone to see. I'm happy to pay for their services. Put somewhat dramatically: People who help people help people deserve to get paid for it. Deserve much more than a typical hedge fund manager.

The fact that you have pointed out minorities, women and now the SF Pride Parade seems to indicate you have some other personal issues. There are many bigger festivals in SF besides the Pride parade for you to have used as an example. I don't know of any ambulance in that city that is a volunteer service. The EMTs on the ambulances working in the Bay area are paid. However, the medical booths at some events are ran by the hospitals and are part paid and part volunteer. Some do it for a point or two on their evaluations in the community service section. Thus, it is not without some benefit.

So what I have mentioned women, minorities and the community that attends the SF Pride Parade!? Personal issues!? WTF are you talking about!? Obviously I work in San Francisco, where a majority of my patients fall into one of those three categories. Yes I am concerned for them and yes I make a point of highlighting them because if you haven't figured out from my other post (pro-union), I am interetsed in helping people who many others forget about, i.e. women, minorities, GLBT community, and most importantly, workers. Isn't EMS about the non-judgemental assitance to those in need? Do you ask your pts about there sexual orientation before you treat them? You got the issues Ventmedic.

As far as volunteering goes: check out SF Pride Medical Committee. All-volunteer medical staff there for the whole weekend. Skill levels from MD to First Responder, from as far away as British Colombia. There are volunteers who have been working there for 25 yrs - FOR FREE. All supplies are donated including ECG's, fluids and IVs, splinting gear, AED's, backboards, cushman carts that act as ambulances to get through the 250,000 people (biggest outdoor festival in CA). As far as other festivals go, check out RockMeds, and Mutual Aid, who are at every outdoor concert in CA DONATING time, skill, and supplies.

The one thing a union can do is keep someone who has better education with experience from being promoted when some deadbeat has more senority. Promoting one individual who has less senority but more education would be detrimental to their message of "equal opportunity" to all. But for the EMTs who want no part of education, unions are great as they can protect the employees when their employers try to force mandatory educational inservices on them.

Again, what are you talking about? Better education? If the person has an RN education, go be a nurse. If the person has a BA in European Literature, go be a professor. If the person has just got there Medic license they will be promoted to Paramedic over any EMT, there is no dispute there. What is this dependence on education? Unless it is the education to move to a different job class within the company, what education are you talking about? CE's? Everyone does those already? How is 20yrs as a medic not count as education? If there is a medic who is old and lazy, there are steps that can happen before we start promoting those who have worked less. Everyone who posts about or complains about seniority always focuses on a "deadbeat" as you say. What about the hardworking Medic who just got married and whose wife is having a baby? In a non-seniority based model, mgmt decides who will get promoted, not the amount of time and dedication you put in. Vent, when your back goes out, and they start looking for brand new medics to take your shifts, I hope you can recall what you stated in this post.

If someone is screwing up to where it puts the patient and my license at risk, I am not going to the union but rather through the proper chain of command and to the state licensing agency if necessary. Patients deserve accountability of those administering medical care. EMS is about the lives of patients and not stuffing boxes on an assembly line. The unions have no interest in patient care or what your responsibilities are to holding a certification or license.

If a pt is put in danger or your partner is put in danger, yes then the union will not protect you solely because you pay dues. The union's interest is in job equality for all employees. Which is most easily attained when employees are not putting anyone in danger. That is not the point here. The point is to communicate w your partner before it gets to that level.

Again, there are patients involved who must be considered and they are the ones done a great disservice by the unions. You are in California and have not learned anything from Vallejo or the city of Alameda. What about the issues of San Francisco? How about the FF who worked 19 straight shifts? The union supported him. Safe with the public's interest in mind?

What issues in SF? Non-union companies like Protransport who pay their EE's garbage, who don't help them keep up on their skills and training, who will buy a new ambulance before they invest in an EE's future with the company and teach them how to drive it C3? My union steward is interested in helping me keep my job. That includes keeping up w all my certs, skills, CE's and all job-related disciplines to a minimum. Non-union does the disservice.

What about all the BS unions spend millions of dollars of both taxpayers and employees to support their own cause? Hell they don't even think their own employees are smart enough to make an election decision and tell them how to vote as well as taking their money to support the union's favorite candidate or bill that does the public or anyone but themselves any good.

I'm talking about unions at the local level. A good deal of organizing has to be done before we can even start talking about national politics. Thats for the teamsters and SEIU, not for NEMSA yet. First, we have to get people on board who fail to see that the reason they work 40 hours in the week and then get time and a half is because of gains taken by unionism. You do like the weekend don't you?