Pro-Transport (bay area)

[Johnny Foley]

You do not understand the economics of health care. This much is painfully obvious. There are many reasons that the patient was transported to kaiser, and most of those reasons benefit the patient herself.

Sure, I get that. But three hours after she rolled her car and lost her hand?! Are you kidding me?! Give me any reason that she shouldn't have been given a bed at SFGH or even Kaiser SF. I guarantee that if you were that girl, the last place on earth you would want to be is in a car on the highway, much less an ambulance designed to get places fast, not long distances smoothly. I rolled my car when I was 16 on a highway in NY. For maybe 2 years after that I was anxious anytime I was in a car that was braking even just lightly on the highway. There is no decent argument for why a stable pt s/p MVC should be forced back onto the highway to fulfill contract requirements, so don't even try it.

And PS, the phrase that you used "Economics of Health Care" is an oxymoron. I don't deny the realities of it, but it is a backwards concept nonetheless.

And to JPINV, it is illegal for EMS to refuse a call for any reason other than safety for the crew. I ALMOST refused it, and had I, the union couldn't have helped me. The union is fair, unlike Kaiser.

 

[JPINFV]

And to JPINV, it is illegal for EMS to refuse a call for any reason other than safety for the crew. I ALMOST refused it, and had I, the union couldn't have helped me. The union is fair, unlike Kaiser.

Err... if your including non-emergent transports (such as the Kaiser transport) in the definition of EMS, then you're wrong. Yes, the contracted 911 company can't refuse 911 calls. Any other call outside of 911 calls can be refused. There is no duty to act forcing an ambulance company to transport a dialysis patient. However, the refusal of calls should be handled at the dispatch and administrative level and not the EMT level. An EMT refusing to transport a discharged patient from the hospital is not abandonment. It is, however, a reason for termination.

 

[VentMedic]

And again Ventmedic, you missed the point entirely. A transport SFGH to Kaiser south city doesn't inconvenience me in the least; rather it inconveniences the girl who was JUST IN AN MVC ON THE HIGHWAY! Kaiser decides that they want their patient back so that all interventions and surgeries performed can be billed by Kaiser, so this poor girl who is sobbing because she is 20 y/o and about to be w/o 5 fingers on her left hand, is going for a ride in the back of an ambulance on the HIGHWAY - which if you have ever ridden in at all, you know is not a smooth ride, especially in SF - cause she is a Kaiser pt. PLUS - no lie - Kaiser said to leave on the c-collar, "they would clear her C-spine at their facility". Do you know how much it sucks being in a collar? She was stable. Transport was technically indicated, but sure as S**T pretty inconvenient for her. Thats why I almost refused it.

If SFGH kept every patient that entered their doors, they would have 0 beds ever. What would they do with the fresh traumas? Hospitals do not have an unlimited supply of beds. I can think of other reasons she is sobbing and most of them probably have to do with a disgruntled EMT b*&+$ ing all the way. Believe it or not some patients are in C-Collars for months. They do serve a purpose.

Originally Posted by Johnny Foley

Not only would I rather have an SFFD medic work on me when I was going into arrest than someone with a EMC degree from Loma Linda, I would rather have a drink with them too. Do you understand the humor in the fact that you are attending a christian school while quoting that you are going to take special classes on etiology of HIV/AIDS? I guarantee that sometime during that class your instructor will say that HIV is transmitted by homosexuals.

What an insult to the SFFD medics! Believe it or not but some do have an education and some have graduated from LLU. Many would like to know more to become the best Paramedic they can be.

Your knowledge of education is even less than that of unions. Of course, you also know very little about LLU or even HIV.

Originally Posted by JPINFV
Err... if your including non-emergent transports (such as the Kaiser transport) in the definition of EMS, then you're wrong. Yes, the contracted 911 company can't refuse 911 calls. Any other call outside of 911 calls can be refused. There is no duty to act forcing an ambulance company to transport a dialysis patient. However, the refusal of calls should be handled at the dispatch and administrative level and not the EMT level. An EMT refusing to transport a discharged patient from the hospital is not abandonment. It is, however, a reason for termination.

He doesn't have to worry about contracted 911 calls since AMR backs up SFFD.

 

[JPINFV]

I guarantee that sometime during that class your instructor will say that HIV is transmitted by homosexuals.

Also, just a quick note. Anyone who told you that homosexuals can't transmit HIV lied to you. Sexual preference doesn't equate to some sort of magical immune system that defeats HIV.

 

[daedalus]

Also, just a quick note. Anyone who told you that homosexuals can't transmit HIV lied to you. Sexual preference doesn't equate to some sort of magical immune system that defeats HIV.

What?? I don't think that is what he was trying to say. I think he meant that at Christian schools, they would teach that HIV was invented by God as a weapon against homosexuals. (Which of course, they do not teach that way, at least one would hope).

 

[JPINFV]

What?? I don't think that is what he was trying to say. I think he meant that at Christian schools, they would teach that HIV was invented by God as a weapon against homosexuals. (Which of course, they do not teach that way, at least one would hope).

Well... of course there's that interpretation too.

However, sometimes it's more fun to

 

[VentMedic]

Considering all the HIV/AIDS research Loma Linda has done, I would be surprised if they made negative statements against any one group. It would make the work they publish less credible to the world of medicine.

 

[Johnny Foley]

Recap

People who have been responding to this thread seem altogether humorless and cold. The HIV thing was a joke, completely lost on these posters.

The fact that not one of you posters showed any concern or understanding for the 20 y/o, in your posts, or your replies to mine, shows that none of you understand that health care is also about patient advocacy. Yes there are protocols, and algorithms, and policies, and SOP's, but there is also - and needs to be - a level of compassion for your pts. Ventmedic, give me a f***ing break. I wasn't complaining to that girl. I was passing tissues to her crying mother, and trying desperately to make her as comfortable as I could while the rig magnified every pothole and bump. And if YOU were joking about that, then you need to find something else to joke about. Crying kids are not funny to me.

And Ventmedic, stop trying to "educate" everyone all the time. Yes I know that people are in C-collars sometime, but they get cleared IN THE HOSPITAL, like that girl did. They xrayed her, CT'd her, cleared her neurologically, but kaiser said they wanted it on so THEY could clear her. And yes I know that SFGH has limited beds. Don't patronize me. I also know that a bed can be found UPSTAIRS, out of the ER if necessary. I didn't say keep her in the trauma bay, I said get her somewhere calm and comfortable so she could somehow relax over what had just happened to her. But get em in and get em out like you say...

And yep, you got me. I was wrong about refusing calls being illegal. Way to go EMTLIFE posters. I'm busted.

However, to recap the original points of this post - and I was right about some things, and you all were right about somethings - here are a few indisputable points:

1. A good union is better for workers than no union
This is a non debatable fact. Documented and proven and backed up. And I am speaking about my union, NEMSA, as an example, which if some day down the line gets proven to be crooked too, then I will recant. However, now its gets the benefit of the doubt, because they have done nothing but help my coworkers and I, and the CONCEPT OF UNIONISM IS A GOOD ONE. That is also non-debatable. Workers are stronger together. Mgmt will always try to get over on workers. Historically, and everyday today. That is the nature of free markets, competition, and capitalism. Period.

2. Education is good, but nothing WITHOUT actual field experience.
In any field, any occupation, especially in health care. Every human is different and to think that you can gain the insight into the intricacies of human illness through a classroom environment, WITHOUT putting it into practice (notice that word, PRACTICE), than you will be a poor provider. We are all right on this point. Education is crucial, but means nothing without practice. And I would still rather have a five year or even a three year SFFD medic work me up, or anyone in my family, than anyone with a degree and less experience. If your sole desire in your industry is too make more and more money, than keep going back to school. If your desire is to actually learn, than go on an internship. You lose credibility for what you do when your motivations become clear that all you want to do is to make money.

And you can get a PA degree online from a million places. and while your physician is off researching for her next journal publication, a PA can DX, and prescribe meds. This is common in Kaisers.

And Vent, what education are you talking about? You still didn't specify. And I will still advocate seniority over education even if you win the f***ing Nobel Prize for Astromicrobiophysioecochemostrology.

3. The "economics of health care" is an oxymoron.
Ask anyone who works and also has volunteered. There are numerous groups. Check out Remote Area Medical, who invented NO-COST healthcare in our country and globally. They are %100 volunteer based. See:

http://www.ramusa.org/learn/media.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li84p4WL-VE

The second you match a pts needs with a hospitals financial bottom line, you lower that person to a stature that is not even human. They are not a liability, or an investment, or a dollar sign. They are a mother, sister, and human being. Yes this is naive, and unrealistic in respect to our economic times and society. But that doesn't change the truth of the point that healthcare shouldn't have anything to do with profit. Period.

This thread has gotten ridiculous. If there are any real arguments to any of the above than please continue, otherwise stop beating a deadhorse.

Vote Union.

 

[JPINFV]

And I would still rather have a five year or even a three year SFFD medic work me up, or anyone in my family, than anyone with a degree and less experience. If your sole desire in your industry is too make more and more money, than keep going back to school. If your desire is to actually learn, than go on an internship. You lose credibility for what you do when your motivations become clear that all you want to do is to make money.

You need the classroom before you go into the field. Would you rather have a three year medic with a certification treating you or a 3 year medic with a college degree treating you? Education is a base that you build your practice off of. You can't learn anatomy and physiology in the field and those two fields are the bedrock of your assessment. You can't learn chemistry or pharmacology in the field. Sure, you can learn to push the blue box followed by the red box followed by the periwinkle box in the field. Of course that tells you nothing of the mechanism of action or the like. You can, though, learn those things in a class room. If you want to be an excellent provider at any field, you have to spend time in the classroom before you go into the field. After all, where did that nifty CME class you took on novel H1N1 that you mentioned earlier occur. I'm placing my money that it wasn't in the back of an ambulance.

And you can get a PA degree online from a million places. and while your physician is off researching for her next journal publication, a PA can DX, and prescribe meds. This is common in Kaisers.

So it wasn't physicians taking their medical degree online? Were you lying to us or just confused on who took which courses online? Furthermore, PAs and NPs ('mid level providers') diagnose and treat patients all across the country while operating under physician oversight (NPs call it "collaboration"). It's nothing new or unique to Kaiser. Similarly, any PA written prescription must be cosigned by the supervising physician. Furthermore, a million places? Sure. Heck, there are a million shady medical schools in the Caribbean. It doesn't mean a thing if the schools aren't recognized in California.

Additionally, who cares if part of the education is online? Here's a little secret. Most medical students don't go all of their lectures, especially when the school records the lecture for us. Heck, the fact that they post the lecture is one of the ways that they count us as "attending" class since physicians are required to have a minimum of 4000 hours of instruction. The vast majority of medical schools don't take attendance for most classes during the preclinical years.

Vote Union.

Vote union and you too can slander other health care professionals!

 

[Johnny Foley]

You need the classroom before you go into the field. Would you rather have a three year medic with a certification treating you or a 3 year medic with a college degree treating you? Education is a base that you build your practice off of. You can't learn anatomy and physiology in the field and those two fields are the bedrock of your assessment. You can't learn chemistry or pharmacology in the field. Sure, you can learn to push the blue box followed by the red box followed by the periwinkle box in the field. Of course that tells you nothing of the mechanism of action or the like. You can, though, learn those things in a class room. If you want to be an excellent provider at any field, you have to spend time in the classroom before you go into the field. After all, where did that nifty CME class you took on novel H1N1 that you mentioned earlier occur. I'm placing my money that it wasn't in the back of an ambulance

Like I said, this thread is ridiculous. And talk about slander. Why don't you post on www.ihateemtlife.com instead. Or www.myloveformedschoolisneverending.com. Seriously, why stay on this board if you have so much disdain for the medics and emt's who this board is for.?

The h1n1 class was done by my CES (Clinical Education Supervisor) at my job, because it was to inform those who are at most rick for contact and potential to spread, ie field employees. My CES instructor is an EMT-P and has seen and done more than you and your mini little medical school will ever do (needle cricoidthorostomy on her first day of internship.) And I still know more about H1N1 than you.

So it wasn't physicians taking their medical degree online? Were you lying to us or just confused on who took which courses online? Furthermore, PAs and NPs ('mid level providers') diagnose and treat patients all across the country while operating under physician oversight (NPs call it "collaboration"). It's nothing new or unique to Kaiser. Similarly, any PA written prescription must be cosigned by the supervising physician. Furthermore, a million places? Sure. Heck, there are a million shady medical schools in the Caribbean. It doesn't mean a thing if the schools aren't recognized in California.

Your knowledge of 'medical school' reads like you got it off of a course objectives section of a college website. PS, you totally missed my point way back when I asked if you are going to be a doctor. Everyone I know who says "medical school" is refering to an MD degree that they are pursuing. Thats what medical school connotates (connotates means 'means'). You said you are dedicating 3.5 years of your life to school. If you are going to Western U in Pomona,you're not obviously going to be a doctor, so stop misleading people. If your going to be an RN say nursing school. If you are going to be a podiatrist say Podiatrist school. PA, say PA school. If you are going to be an MD say medical school. Otherwise, stop it.


Stop beating the dead horse while ignoring the pages of other things I have posted that are undeniable. I admitted I was in error about the call refusal. I gave you all credit for the education thing. Grow up and admit that maybe you are wrong about sojme things as well. Although, this is JPINV, the guy who admittedly would rat anyone out to advance himself. Far be it for him to display humility, or maturity...

 

[Lifeguards For Life]

Thats what medical school connotates (connotates means 'means').

"connotates" means to suggest or imply. nice try "connotates isn't even really a proper word"

what do you know about swine flu?

 

[Lifeguards For Life]

People who have been responding to this thread seem altogether humorless and cold. The HIV thing was a joke, completely lost on these posters.

The fact that not one of you posters showed any concern or understanding for the 20 y/o, in your posts, or your replies to mine, shows that none of you understand that health care is also about patient advocacy. Yes there are protocols, and algorithms, and policies, and SOP's, but there is also - and needs to be - a level of compassion for your pts. Ventmedic, give me a f***ing break. I wasn't complaining to that girl. I was passing tissues to her crying mother, and trying desperately to make her as comfortable as I could while the rig magnified every pothole and bump. And if YOU were joking about that, then you need to find something else to joke about. Crying kids are not funny to me.

And Ventmedic, stop trying to "educate" everyone all the time. Yes I know that people are in C-collars sometime, but they get cleared IN THE HOSPITAL, like that girl did. They xrayed her, CT'd her, cleared her neurologically, but kaiser said they wanted it on so THEY could clear her. And yes I know that SFGH has limited beds. Don't patronize me. I also know that a bed can be found UPSTAIRS, out of the ER if necessary. I didn't say keep her in the trauma bay, I said get her somewhere calm and comfortable so she could somehow relax over what had just happened to her. But get em in and get em out like you say...

And yep, you got me. I was wrong about refusing calls being illegal. Way to go EMTLIFE posters. I'm busted.

However, to recap the original points of this post - and I was right about some things, and you all were right about somethings - here are a few indisputable points:

1. A good union is better for workers than no union
This is a non debatable fact. Documented and proven and backed up. And I am speaking about my union, NEMSA, as an example, which if some day down the line gets proven to be crooked too, then I will recant. However, now its gets the benefit of the doubt, because they have done nothing but help my coworkers and I, and the CONCEPT OF UNIONISM IS A GOOD ONE. That is also non-debatable. Workers are stronger together. Mgmt will always try to get over on workers. Historically, and everyday today. That is the nature of free markets, competition, and capitalism. Period.

2. Education is good, but nothing WITHOUT actual field experience.
In any field, any occupation, especially in health care. Every human is different and to think that you can gain the insight into the intricacies of human illness through a classroom environment, WITHOUT putting it into practice (notice that word, PRACTICE), than you will be a poor provider. We are all right on this point. Education is crucial, but means nothing without practice. And I would still rather have a five year or even a three year SFFD medic work me up, or anyone in my family, than anyone with a degree and less experience. If your sole desire in your industry is too make more and more money, than keep going back to school. If your desire is to actually learn, than go on an internship. You lose credibility for what you do when your motivations become clear that all you want to do is to make money.

And you can get a PA degree online from a million places. and while your physician is off researching for her next journal publication, a PA can DX, and prescribe meds. This is common in Kaisers.

And Vent, what education are you talking about? You still didn't specify. And I will still advocate seniority over education even if you win the f***ing Nobel Prize for Astromicrobiophysioecochemostrology.

3. The "economics of health care" is an oxymoron.
Ask anyone who works and also has volunteered. There are numerous groups. Check out Remote Area Medical, who invented NO-COST healthcare in our country and globally. They are %100 volunteer based. See:

http://www.ramusa.org/learn/media.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li84p4WL-VE

The second you match a pts needs with a hospitals financial bottom line, you lower that person to a stature that is not even human. They are not a liability, or an investment, or a dollar sign. They are a mother, sister, and human being. Yes this is naive, and unrealistic in respect to our economic times and society. But that doesn't change the truth of the point that healthcare shouldn't have anything to do with profit. Period.

This thread has gotten ridiculous. If there are any real arguments to any of the above than please continue, otherwise stop beating a deadhorse.

Vote Union.

Mr. Foley,
It is obvious Sir, you lack the mental capacity to actively participate in this debate. Perhaps you would be better served by playing checkers or one of the other many internet based games that are better suited for your entertainment needs and perfectly fitting for your knowledge of EMS, politics, war, and other issues relating to the human condition. I have taken the liberty to provide you a link http://www.zdaily.com/checkers/index.htm

 

[VentMedic]

And Vent, what education are you talking about? You still didn't specify. And I will still advocate seniority over education even if you win the f***ing Nobel Prize for Astromicrobiophysioecochemostrology.

Unbelievable! You don't even know there is education for EMTs to advance to Paramedic and take A&P classes at the City college in your area?

3. The "economics of health care" is an oxymoron.
Ask anyone who works and also has volunteered. There are numerous groups. Check out Remote Area Medical, who invented NO-COST health care in our country and globally. They are %100 volunteer based. See:

http://www.ramusa.org/learn/media.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li84p4WL-VE

The second you match a pts needs with a hospitals financial bottom line, you lower that person to a stature that is not even human. They are not a liability, or an investment, or a dollar sign. They are a mother, sister, and human being. Yes this is naive, and unrealistic in respect to our economic times and society. But that doesn't change the truth of the point that health care shouldn't have anything to do with profit. Period.

This thread has gotten ridiculous. If there are any real arguments to any of the above than please continue, otherwise stop beating a deadhorse.

Vote Union.

Why do you think the hospital system is set up the way it is in SF or any city? Not all can or even should have cath labs or be trauma center. You don't seem to understand that, as much as you like SFGH because it is some convenient, you can not dump all your patients off there especially since you only do BLS IFT.

You need to sign up for classes at some college in the Bay area that has both EMT and Paramedic. Retake the EMT class and then start in with some A&P courses. I doubt if you have what it takes to be a Paramedic since the concept of patient care and appropriate facilities totally escapes you. Just maybe you can be a better EMT. Luckily you and, of course, the OP are just two employees from ProTransport. But, you display you hideous attitude when picking up patients in the hospital to other health care professionals and to the patients to where you make them cry by telling them some of the crap you have said here, I can almost guarantee ProTransport will again lose some of its contracts. Then, your seniority might be helpful when the layoffs occur.

I doubt if your union will support an unemployed EMT. There are also many EMTs in the Bay area from all the little mills to where no one has to or should keep an employee who is so disgruntled about patients, hospitals and the ambulance company they work for.

 

[JPINFV]

My CES instructor is an EMT-P and has seen and done more than you and your mini little medical school will ever do (needle cricoidthorostomy on her first day of internship.) And I still know more about H1N1 than you.

Amazing that you avoided the question there completely. Did that course occur in the field or in a class room? It's one or the other. Of course the problem is that everyone knows the answer (classroom), but the answer (classroom) doesn't jive with your bias (classroom is useless).

Your knowledge of 'medical school' reads like you got it off of a course objectives section of a college website. PS, you totally missed my point way back when I asked if you are going to be a doctor. Everyone I know who says "medical school" is refering to an MD degree that they are pursuing. Thats what medical school connotates (connotates means 'means'). You said you are dedicating 3.5 years of your life to school. If you are going to Western U in Pomona,you're not obviously going to be a doctor, so stop misleading people. If your going to be an RN say nursing school. If you are going to be a podiatrist say Podiatrist school. PA, say PA school. If you are going to be an MD say medical school. Otherwise, stop it.

3.5 years. Let's see, I'm a first year medical student 6 days away from winter break. Err. my first year is half over. Let's do some simple math (I know... math is hard). 4 - 0.5 = 3.5. Hence, 3.5 years of undergraduate medical education (as in, medical education before being granted a medical degree and going into graduate medical education, also known as residency) remains.

Additionally, "medical school" in the US refers to one of two degree granting programs. Colleges of allopathic medicine (MD) and colleges of osteopathic medicine (DO). Both degrees are considered equal with states granting full, unrestricted licenses to practice medicine. In the vast majority of states, both MDs and DOs are licensed by the same board of medicine. Western University of Health Sciences runs the College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific (COMP). So, yes. Western University has a medical school.

Stop beating the dead horse while ignoring the pages of other things I have posted that are undeniable. I admitted I was in error about the call refusal. I gave you all credit for the education thing. Grow up and admit that maybe you are wrong about sojme things as well. Although, this is JPINV, the guy who admittedly would rat anyone out to advance himself. Far be it for him to display humility, or maturity...

Yea.. far be it from me to expect professionalism from my coworkers. At least I have never needed a union to protect my job.

 

[daedalus]

Preforming a needle cric on the first day of one's internship means exactly nothing, and if your CES guy was bragging to you about this it probably means he did it on a patient where it was not indicated. The level of ignorance being displayed here is unbelievable. Your knowledge of education, and your misplaced importance in preforming skills, will mean poor patient care. It is not about what you can do but what you know.

Also, JP is going to be a doctor. A physician. Just because Western U does not offer an MD degree, does not make the medical degree they award (D.O.) mean someone is any less of a doctor or physician or surgeon. There are DO cardiologists, DO emergency physicians, DO neurosurgeons, and DO paramedic textbook authors. And here I was thinking the shameful ignorance and discrimination against a physician with a DO was over????

You need to research what Physician Assistants, Nurse Practitioners, and Physicians really go through to obtain their education. Ill give you a clue, all of these professionals have master's degrees and above. But in case you do not know, here is the link to the Stanford School of Medicine's PA school:

http://pcap.stanford.edu/curriculum/
(Yes, the real Stanford University. Notice the complete lack of online classes in this school)

Also, what is a DO ?
http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=ado_whatis

 

[Old Fart Medic]

OMG!

Pro is and has been engaging in illegal activity, and it wasn't the justice dept that got involved, it was the NLRB. Just following their last election, they were slapped with an injuction basically telling them to stop breaking just about every rule from the NLRA. A few employees illegally put on suspension were awarded a few months back pay.

And they have been breaking all the same laws again prior to this recent union vote - coercion, bribes, intimidation. They are even paying a stool from the East Coast to come and bad mouth the union. That is salary they could spend on employees, training, benefits, etc.

It doesn't matter who you work for, what occupation you hold, or your level of professionalism. You are going to work hard to make someone who works less hard rich. Period. AMR is no different than Pro in that respect. Everyone in this thread is an EMS worker first, and an employee second.

Do any of you actually know about NEMSA? If you did you wouldn'nt be so up on their side. I KNOW. I have known the President of NEMSA almost 15 years, back before he became a shop stewart for SEIU at AMR. Even back then I didn't care for him, and he knows it. We had a "Infomational" meeting before the vote in Modesto/Hughson, supposed to be only NEMSA giving a short presentation, the leave and let the employees discuss things.
Ain't what happened. He, (Toren) brought in his heavy hitters to try and sway us. As you might know, it didn't work. Once he began talking, more of the Pro NEMSA employees decided that he was full of crap.
OBTW. Did I mention you can google "Toren Colcord" and get a lot of information about the ILLEGAL activities that he has been accused of, of the lawsuit by SEIU for NEMSA plotting their start by screwing SEIU, while he was working and accepting wages from SEIU? How the courts have ruled that he owes a whole bunch of money to SEIU? How he drives around Modesto area in a HUMVEE? How his union got in something like 1.3 million in dues and his salary was over 750K?
I saw no illegal activities by Pro Transport One. I know of illegal activities by Toren and the NEMSA. We had to have two different votes because the union(COLCORD) claimed illegal activities. That is his unions playbook. Lodge complaints after complaints against the company, dragging out what should have been a simple no vote, NEMSA get the heck out of heree. WE voted that. The employees. Not the company. I VOTED NO. I have been personly screwed over by Toren. So if you are reading this Toren, you know who I am.

 

[Old Fart Medic]

Rat?

This thread is starting to get repetitive aand argumentative so this the last post from me...





C'mon. Be a man and talk to your partner first instead of running off and ratting on them. Afterall a rat is just the grown-up term for "tattle-tale". Or show them the respect enough to go to your union rep first who has both of your interests in mind, not the company's.

So, if I understand you, you think that the partner that screws the pooch, and lashed out at a patient, or comes to work drunk, stoned, been out catting around all night and is sleep deprived, You Think we should just Talk to them before bringing this to the attention of management? ARE YOU NUTS? My partner is my partner. He/She should NEVER put me in the position of having to go to management. You don't EVER put you partner in jeopardy. NEVER!

Again, to reiterate, Unions can get you more than you can get yourself. It is a proven, documented fact that union shops earn more money, benefits, better conditions for their members than non-union.

Unions improve the wages of minorities and women, improve pt care,

Please oh please tell me how unions inprove the wages of minorities and women? It is against FEDERAL LABOR LAW to pay someone less based on them being a minority, a woman, a Catholic, a Jew, a Muslim, an old man/woman or a young one. And if you pay them extra because of this same thing, being a minority, a woman, etc., then again you are breaking Federal Labor Laws.
And the part about the union improves patient care. What an assinine statement. Unions could give a rats patooie (sp?) about patient care. Patient care comes from the heart. Not because you want to look good for management, but because that patient is someone's mother, father, son or daughter, someones brother or sister. That should be enough. If you treat every patient like they are you mother or father, grandmother or grandfather, well you get the drift, I hope.

Can you do any of this stuff all by yourself? No. You can only help yourself and tattle on you partner in the process.

YES! You can do this on your own. You do0n't need a union to tell you to treat you patient with simple kindness, a smile, a thank you, even a hug when one is needed. Yes You Can Make A Difference.

 

[Johnny Foley]

Still ridiculous

Mr. Foley,
It is obvious Sir, you lack the mental capacity to actively participate in this debate./index.htm

Lifeguard, this isn't even a response/argument.

Unbelievable! You don't even know there is education for EMTs to advance to Paramedic and take A&P classes at the City college in your area?

Ventmedic, did you even read any of my other posts? I specifically wrote that I understand that an EMT can progress to Medic. That is common knowledge. The argument here is about seniority based raises vs. "education" based raises. I stated a number of times previously that a union will not stop anyone from advancing their job class. An EMT that takes any kind of coursework THAT DOESNT CHANGE HIS/HER JOB CLASSIFICATION WILL NOT GET A RAISE BASED ON THAT EDUCATION. To be %100 clear, an EMT can only work within his/her protocols. Same with a medic. We can all obviously agree on that. The most highly educated EMT or Medic still cannot do anything outside of those protocols so for the purpose of paying you for the job you do, once you are certified as an EMT or a Medic, all the extraneous education in the world will not change that. Granted, if you get an RN or a medical degree for example, then of course you can go work as one of those professions. BUT at an Ambulance company you are still an EMT or a Medic. I hope you all can understand this logic, it is not complex. And while you are working as an EMT or Medic, you will get raises based on the time you have worked. Period. There is really no more to argue about there.

Vent, you went on and on about education, but as far as an EMT or Medic cert goes right now, in this day and age, according to nationally agreed upon policies, once you are certified, that is what you are. No more no less. If you want to get to EMT-I, that is fine and then you will get seniority based raises among the other EMT-I's. Same thing for W-EMT if that is what your organization employs. But an EMT-B with a doctorate in cardiac pathophysiology will get put into a seniority list based on his hire date just like the high school grad who also has aN EMT-B cert. Period. If you don't like it that is one thing, and I am not suggesting that it is entirely appropriate. BUT, the Doc EMT and the High School EMT are performing the same skills, duty, job, and prescribed protocols while working. INDISPUTABLE. Thus, they get SENIORITY based raises. Until your local Medical Director changes that, that is the correct, right, and above all else fair way to do it.

Why do you think the hospital system is set up the way it is in SF or any city? Not all can or even should have cath labs or be trauma center. You don't seem to understand that, as much as you like SFGH because it is some convenient, you can not dump all your patients off there especially since you only do BLS IFT

Vent, I'm sorry but you are sincerely arrogant in your assumptions about what I know and don't know about SF destination policy. And again, I'm not sure why I am even replying to you since it is obvious that you either don't read or understand my other posts. I DIDN'T TAKE THAT GIRL TO SFGH B/C IT WAS CONVENIENT. SHE WAS A ROLLOVER, THUS A TRAUMA ACTIVATION!! IT WAS NOT A MATTER OF CONVENIENCE IN ANY SENSE OF THE WORD. MY CONVENIENCE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT AND I DIDN'T IMPLY THAT IN ANY WAY. STOP INSULTING ME WITH YOUR ARROGANCE AND BLATANT IGNORANCE. You seem oblivious to the fact that destination policy - and a lot of other hospital policy for that matter, evidently to me, Kaiser's - will not always take the patients sense of convenience and comfort into consideration. Haven't you ever done or heard of a pt getting a long distance transport home s/p some kind of hip of spinal surgery when Medicare/Medi-cal did not approve flight XFER? Or a pt who has some kind neurological disease that is sent from SF to Eureka and pees and poops himself 1 hr into the Xport because he is incontinent? Would you want to sit in your own FECES for 4 hours? That is representative of hospital policy in SF. It doesn't disgruntle me while I am working, and I challenge you to call my supe and ask about how many Pt complaints I have gotten in the 2 years of being an EMT. I didn't make that girl cry, her emergency did. I did all I could to assist her, make her comfortable, keep her warm, assure her - lying through my teeth - that Kaiser is one of the best hospital groups in the Bay Area and that she was heading towards competent hands. Vent, if you can't grasp why that transport was bad, than you don't seem to have the first idea or what true care entails.

Luckily you and, of course, the OP are just two employees from ProTransport. But, you display you hideous attitude when picking up patients in the hospital to other health care professionals and to the patients to where you make them cry by telling them some of the crap you have said here, .

Like I said above Vent, READ THE POSTS YOU ARE RESPONDING TO!! I wrote that I didn't work for Pro. I wrote that it was AN MVC ROLLOVER that made that girl cry. Stop replying if you are not going to actually read the posts. It is belittling of you.

Quote:


Amazing that you avoided the question there completely. Did that course occur in the field or in a class room? It's one or the other. Of course the problem is that everyone knows the answer (classroom), but the answer (classroom) doesn't jive with your bias (classroom is useless).

JPINV, if you are so hellbent on being proven right, and you need to stroke your ego (and self) to feel better about yourself, the class was given by my CES instructor and a visiting doctor from a sutter hospital in my CREW LOUNGE at my Ops. There wasn't a blackboard or desks and chairs, but it wasn't in an ambulance either. So I think that we are both right. Is your gen. psychology/sociology requirement coming up soon, because you are really hard to deal with and you need some pointers.

3.5 years. Let's see, I'm a first year medical student 6 days away from

Additionally, "medical school" in the US refers to one of two degree granting programs. Colleges of allopathic medicine (MD) and colleges of osteopathic medicine (DO). Both degrees are considered equal with states granting full, unrestricted licenses to practice medicine. In the vast majority of states, both MDs and DOs are licensed by the same board of medicine. Western University of Health Sciences runs the College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific (COMP). So, yes. Western University has a medical school.

I stand totally corrected on my last post. This thread had gotten argumentative and aggresive and I was writing the same way. No knock on you for trying to better yourself, and I fully admit that I was wrong about Western Pomona State. Best of luck to you in your career.

http://www.studentsreview.com/CA/Western_University_of_Health_Sciences.html

http://www.studentsreview.com/CA/SFSU.html

Yea.. far be it from me to expect professionalism from my coworkers. At least I have never needed a union to protect my job.

Just hope you never will...

Preforming a needle cric on the first day of one's internship means exactly nothing, and if your CES guy was bragging to you about this it probably means he did it on a patient where it was not indicated. The level of ignorance being displayed here is unbelievable. Your knowledge of education, and your misplaced importance in preforming skills, will mean poor patient care. It is not about what you can do but what you know.

To be totally clear - and I admit I wasn't before - my CES WOMAN, did her medic internship in alameda county, Oakland, the ghetto, so she saw everything that was in your EMT and Paramedic textbooks, times ten. And, like other people I know who have participated in extremely intense, high-stress situations like the one she saw in alameda, she didn't brag, she graciously shared her stories with people who would benefit from that knowledge. And How the F**K do you know if it was indicated or not. That is even more arrogant than Ventmedic. And your last sentence is so nonsensical it is silly "It is not about what you can do but what you know". It reminds me of this commercial I used to see that made me laugh. Its for these TV dinners and they have these people who are supposed to look like some kind of chefs, and one of them says to the other "Here we've added flavor to taste..."

 

[Johnny Foley]

Do any of you actually know about NEMSA? If you did you wouldn'nt be so up on their side. I KNOW. I have known the President of NEMSA almost 15 years, back before he became a shop stewart for SEIU at AMR. Even back then I didn't care for him, and he knows it. We had a "Infomational" meeting before the vote in Modesto/Hughson, supposed to be only NEMSA giving a short presentation, the leave and let the employees discuss things.
Ain't what happened. He, (Toren) brought in his heavy hitters to try and sway us. As you might know, it didn't work. Once he began talking, more of the Pro NEMSA employees decided that he was full of crap.
OBTW. Did I mention you can google "Toren Colcord" and get a lot of information about the ILLEGAL activities that he has been accused of, of the lawsuit by SEIU for NEMSA plotting their start by screwing SEIU, while he was working and accepting wages from SEIU? How the courts have ruled that he owes a whole bunch of money to SEIU? How he drives around Modesto area in a HUMVEE? How his union got in something like 1.3 million in dues and his salary was over 750K?
I saw no illegal activities by Pro Transport One. I know of illegal activities by Toren and the NEMSA. We had to have two different votes because the union(COLCORD) claimed illegal activities. That is his unions playbook. Lodge complaints after complaints against the company, dragging out what should have been a simple no vote, NEMSA get the heck out of heree. WE voted that. The employees. Not the company. I VOTED NO. I have been personly screwed over by Toren. So if you are reading this Toren, you know who I am.

I have never dealt with Torren at all, and I know of the allegations. HOWEVER, as I stated way, way back in this thread, the CONCEPT OF UNIONISM IS A GOOD ONE, and in my opinion the CONCEPT OF AN ALL EMS UNION IS SOUND ALSO. My steward has helped a really, really good medic I work with get two and a half months of back pay that was owed him. Another steward stopped mgmt from sending new people home if their partner called in, which was against our CBA. Also, another steward filed a greivance for an EE who had been put on aa final written warning for ppwk mistakes without a verbal, or a written, thus breaking contract. In other words, whatever Torren's dirty laundry may be - and that might come out in the future - LOCALLY, the stewards at my job are very good at helping fellow coworkers, and that is all I care about currently. My coworkers security. Which - I BELIEVE - NEMSA can protect.

 

[Stryker]

I am sadened by your lack of character. What you may perceive as being educated is only your lack of understanding. Nothing in your life will run as smoothly as you may think it should. Working in the EMS field you should know that every second is unpredictable. What works in this moment won't work for the next. I read these posts over and over. I understand you're frustration. I get what you're saying. What I don't understand is why you have decided that the company you work for has failed you. Have you failed them? Have you performed every moment of your on duty time to being the best EMT and patient care taker as you possibly could? Really. You must be the EMT that shows up for work on time everyday. Shows up to all calls on time with out an issue. You're that EMT who never complains that he got to many calls today, or too little. Definatly not the EMT who's tummy hurts and wants to go home, You're not that guy right? No I got you!! You're the guy who wants control. Who says, 'Hey I am union I don't have to run that call. Make me!!' 'I had to work overtime cuz a patient needed transport, This job sucks!!'.. You're that guy! Did you show up for work on time today? Did you remember to take your freakin gurney with you? Oh, you didn't? Well shoot lets delay patient care so you can take a minute to get your head out of your rear and get your gurney... Did you know that you delayed a patients care, and the next patient in line? No?, Well you did. Not only that you took time from everyone else so they can reroute, call facilites, make up an excuse why you're late, Make up? yes make up, God forbid if they told the hospital you were late because you forgot you're gurney... PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY>... Grow up! It'a JoB!! you make as much money as you are willing to.. Stop being a baby and quit working for this company you hate so much. Take pride in what you do. If you don't love EMS then get out!... I'm not an owner, not a manager, I'm a hard worker who takes the good with the bad. Because as bad as I think it is for me it's worse, so much worse for people who have to rely on ambulance transport as a means of sustaining what little life they have. You will never work for an EMS company that doesn't have issues. If you can't take care of you're own problems I guess you better Get NEMSA to do it for you. Wuss.... Stop Being part of the problem and work for a solution. If you're not part of the solution you ARE the problem.

Whew... Had to say something... after all you're posts I couldn't help myself.

I apologize if you were offended... You're a big boy right!!!???