Police Based Paramedics

[CALEMT]

It's not harsh, it's a valid question. I'm in school right now for EMS.

Ahhh gotcha, curiosity haha.

 

[Fry14MN]

It's not harsh, it's a valid question. I'm in school right now for EMS.

Schools taking me a bit longer than I wanted due to me working more than I probably should but I'll get there. So for now I lurk mostly and put in my two cents where it may be helpful.

 

[Handsome Robb]

It's really disappointing to see the general mindset on here about this subject but can't say I'm surprised. Working in EMS about 80% of the people I've worked with have had the mindset of doing the absolute minimum and are completely fine with that. It's really not surprising that EMS in this country is looked down on. No matter how badly people on here don't want it to happen police based medics and tactical medicine are being adopted by departments around the country. To name a few look at MSP, BORSTAR, FBI HRT, the ATF has a program, DC ERT, and I've seen quite a few posts on here about local departments utilizing tactical medics most being either from California, Florida, and Texas. I'll go back to what I said earlier this wouldn't be a job for everyone. If you want to just be a paramedic then stay doing that.

We can't do EMS right. We should probably focus on that before learning another skill set.

This thread wasn't started in the aspect of tactical Paramedics. That's completely different than a dual roll LEO/Paramedic.


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[Tigger]

It's really disappointing to see the general mindset on here about this subject but can't say I'm surprised. Working in EMS about 80% of the people I've worked with have had the mindset of doing the absolute minimum and are completely fine with that. It's really not surprising that EMS in this country is looked down on. No matter how badly people on here don't want it to happen police based medics and tactical medicine are being adopted by departments around the country. To name a few look at MSP, BORSTAR, FBI HRT, the ATF has a program, DC ERT, and I've seen quite a few posts on here about local departments utilizing tactical medics most being either from California, Florida, and Texas. I'll go back to what I said earlier this wouldn't be a job for everyone. If you want to just be a paramedic then stay doing that.

Which is a tiny, tiny subset of paramedics throughout the country.

I love when people come on here and say "I am interested in a career in tactical medicine," as if it is some sort of established career path. It isn't, nor should it be.

 

[DrParasite]

This times a million. So does this mean I can go put myself through a police academy and be a half cop when I so choose?

actually, yeah. I used to work with a FT paramedic, who worked part time as a sworn law enforcement office. He worked 24/72 on the truck and was a deputy sheriff on his day off (although I think he was a FT deputy before we changed to 24/72s and he decided the schedule was just awesome).

 

[NysEms2117]

actually, yeah. I used to work with a FT paramedic, who worked part time as a sworn law enforcement office. He worked 24/72 on the truck and was a deputy sheriff on his day off (although I think he was a FT deputy before we changed to 24/72s and he decided the schedule was just awesome).

Was he a deputy sheriff or a reserve deputy sheriff? If he was a "normal" sheriff he is the absulute extreme outlier.

 

[EpiEMS]

I love when people come on here and say "I am interested in a career in tactical medicine," as if it is some sort of established career path. It isn't, nor should it be.

Perhaps as a sub-specialization for a (ideally, broadly educated) paramedic, no?

 

[ERDoc]

I like how Robb put it, we can't do EMS right yet. EMS is the US is a horribly fractured system. What will having an LEO with paramedic training bring to the table? What does someone who has been shot need on the scene? They need hemorrhage control and rapid extrication. You don't need a paramedic to do this. You don't really need an EMT to do this. You need someone who knows what blood looks like and can move fast. Someone who has been shot doesn't need a tactical medic. They don't need an ambulance or an ER. Most of the time, what they need is a trauma surgeon and an OR. The other steps just slow down the process. There is a reason HomeBoy Ambulance has such a good survival rate.

I'm all for advancing the field but it is not really advancing the field when we talk about doing something that is not needed and would only involve a small number of people. If you want to advance the field then focus on something that will actually have an impact, help a large number of people and involve a large number of providers. I think community paramedicine is the way to go. Cough, colds, med refills, simple lacerations, minor head injuries. These are places where the burden on an already overburdened ER would make a difference and save healthcare dollars. It's not as cool and sexy as a tactical medic but it makes a lot more sense.

 

[EpiEMS]

I think community paramedicine is the way to go. Cough, colds, med refills, simple lacerations, minor head injuries. These are places where the burden on an already overburdened ER would make a difference and save healthcare dollars.

Thanks for the insightful post, Doc! Would you be comfortable with community paramedics prescribing a limited slate of medications (say, antibiotics subsequent to a rapid strep test, things like that)?

 

[ERDoc]

I think the level of education to become a community paramedic would need to be improved but assuming the education is right, I'd be for it.

 

[EpiEMS]

I think the level of education to become a community paramedic would need to be improved but assuming the education is right, I'd be for it.

Would you want the level of education to be, say, a college-level degree (associates or beyond)?

 

[ERDoc]

For community paramedicine, I'd like to see a bachelors, something similar to the old school PA degree.

 

[VATraumaRN]

Fairfax County Police (Fairfax, VA) has Fairfax 1, a Police Helicopter Division that does medevac (in addition to chasing perps) here in the Metro DC area, they are LEO/Paramedics on the helicopter. They are awesome.

 

[DrParasite]

The New Jersey State Police has NorthSTAR, which has two state trooper pilots, and a flight nurse and flight medic from University Hospital EMS in Newark. They do medevac's interfacilities, as well as the normal police helicopter stuff.

 

[Drwlemt]

Fairfax County Police (Fairfax, VA) has Fairfax 1, a Police Helicopter Division that does medevac (in addition to chasing perps) here in the Metro DC area, they are LEO/Paramedics on the helicopter. They are awesome.

Thanks for posting this I'm originally from that area and this is the first I've heard of the Fairfax program.

 

[Operations Guy]

National Park Service LEOs are required at a minimum to be EMT. That just has to do with the fact of response times for EMS. They carry a full kit in their Tahoe and they tend to focus alot on more aggressive protocols and treatment. Some of the LEO medics carry drugs as well and pak-12s. This is a rare occasion in law enforcement but it truly shows a balance between law enforcement and EMS provider and it works rather well.

 

[EpiEMS]

This is a rare occasion in law enforcement but it truly shows a balance between law enforcement and EMS provider and it works rather well.

I imagine that their position ends up being more guide ("here's the bathrooms") than EMS and more EMS than law enforcement - is that generally correct?

 

[Operations Guy]

I imagine that their position ends up being more guide ("here's the bathrooms") than EMS and more EMS than law enforcement - is that generally correct?

Not at all. Some of the bigger parks have SWAT teams and more. Alot of EMS work in my past dealings with them but a fair share of law enforcement as well. After 9/11 Yosemite actually was on list of potential targets being 90 percent of the water for the Bay Area comes from reservoir up there.

 

[EpiEMS]

Not at all. Some of the bigger parks have SWAT teams and more. Alot of EMS work in my past dealings with them but a fair share of law enforcement as well. After 9/11 Yosemite actually was on list of potential targets being 90 percent of the water for the Bay Area comes from reservoir up there.

Interesting! Thanks for the info!

 

[NysEms2117]

Not at all. Some of the bigger parks have SWAT teams and more. Alot of EMS work in my past dealings with them but a fair share of law enforcement as well. After 9/11 Yosemite actually was on list of potential targets being 90 percent of the water for the Bay Area comes from reservoir up there.

Those swat teams are usually sourced in from what I can understand though. By that meaning the park saying "hey we're vulnerable, and in your state please protect us". Which is reasonable obviously, so if I'm not mistaken it's the state police swat guys that do that, at least In NYS, they have a whole mountain division of guys that do that jazz. Not my cup of tea, but I know a few of them.