Personal vehicle lighting

bigbaldguy said:
Called my insurance guy (awesome agent by the way). He says there is nothing in my policy that says I couldn't put lights on my vehicle however if I was involved in an accident while using them they would pay out on my liability and uninsured/underinsured but would not pay out on my comprehensive. I would have to get a separate rider. I have a very good insurance policy through one of the major companies. For those of you who do have lights and use em you might want to talk to your agent because this could make for a very expensive insurance "gotcha".
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Be sure to ask him if he has him if has CIC,CPCU,CLU, CRIS designations. If he does that means that he put his time in has as much training in the insurance business as the best Paramedic on this forum, who has the most training in his/her field, has. That means he has done his time in the classroom and knows insurance law. And if he does, you have a GREAT agent.. And when an agent tells you something, including me, ask for it in writing.

Everyone of my policyholders thinks they have the best coverage, and they do, but they have know idea and neither do you. You have to trust your agent and hope he knows what he's talking about; again, clients have no idea, they simply think they do. Sit down a read an insurance policy and all of the legal mumbo jumbo including exclusions, definitions, coverge limits, etc. and you will realize you have no idea what you have. So if you trust your agent, stick with him because that what it takes.

You know you have a good agent, when he is man enough to admit that he doesn't know every answer and is willing to pick up the phone and call his underwriter, and any agent worth is weight would want to cover HIS butt by doing this and getting it in writing. (email)
 
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VirginiaEMT said:
I would say they would pay the claim definitely. We pay claims for accidents caused by speeding, DUI's,etc. all of the time. We are more concerned if the business is used for business or pleasure. As an example, I use my car for my business but I pay for a business class on my insurance. If I am responding to my agency as a volunteer, that is personal use. Now, if you were in you vehicle and you are getting paid to use it, or if your cheif would ask you to go pick up something at the store and you use your own car to do it, your insurance company would be primary but the departments "non-owned" auto coverage would pay anything over your limits of liability. Think of it this way; if you park in the middle of the street for any reason, and you cause an accident because of it,your insurance company is going to pay for the damages. They may not be your insurance company for long but they will definitely pay the claim.

I would be more than happy to post a copy of the insurance contract language but it would be for Virginia only, when I get to work tomorrow.
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I don't think that is necessary or even appropriate for here, because it would be a regional and company issue (wouldn't want anyone to get in trouble for it).
 
Since I've been on this forum this is the most productive thread about POV lights.
 
firefite said:
Since I've been on this forum this is the most productive thread about POV lights.
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Yeah, I'm pleasantly surprised by it too.
 
Just a random article I found while googling the topic.

http://www.ehow.com/list_6815258_virginia-laws-emergency-lights-povs.html

About three paragraphs in it says

"To use emergency lights on a POV, volunteers will have to get authorization to do so from their local law enforcement agencies or superintendent. They will also have to have an insurance rider on their private insurance policies."

This is very close to what my agent told me regarding the rules here in Texas.

I think I said that my policy won't pay out for comprehensive coverage earlier I meant to say collision.
 
VirginiaEMT said:
Be sure to ask him if he has him if has CIC,CPCU,CLU, CRIS designations.
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I hate looking up abbreviations. There's always a million possibilities you have to sift through.
 
ffemt8978 said:
Some of our local law enforcement uses the LED light bars, or even the low profile mounting systems. I still stand by my assertion that they are not necessarily all they are claimed to be.

Yes, LEDs are very bright when you look at them, but they still have issues attracting a drivers attention when the driver is NOT looking at them. Even in the night time, the LED light bars do not light up the interior of the car in front of you nearly as much as a strobe or halogen does.
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Interior setups cannot hope to do a good job off axis since they are set back inside of the vehicle. LED lightbars have gotten a lot better in the last two years, I can park a new and old truck next to each other and the difference is immediately noticeable. And if "off-brand" products are being used, well forget about it.
 
Tigger said:
Interior setups cannot hope to do a good job off axis since they are set back inside of the vehicle. LED lightbars have gotten a lot better in the last two years, I can park a new and old truck next to each other and the difference is immediately noticeable. And if "off-brand" products are being used, well forget about it.
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One of our ambulances still has a rotator light bar on top of the cab and halogen squares on the box, and another has all LEDs in the same setup. I would much prefer the LEDs to the halogens when at an MVA on the side of the highway with everyone driving into the setting sun.
 
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such an interesting topic, I think that lights on personal vehicles are a great idea for those responders who are constantly "on call" in some small town or less populated area who might be summoned in the middle of the night to respond to a MCI where there are a very limited amount of qualified responders...

Much like how here in NY, MDs have special plates to allow parking almost anywhere.

but then, in places like that, there wouldnt be any large amount of traffic to deal with anyway so lights are not really that necessary.

I think in big cities, there is enough emergency staff working that no one else needs lights..
 
The way our department works is that those people who have lights and sirens on their car can have them, and are covered by the department's insurance when using them. The chief has to approve each member to use them and only if he trusts you to use them judiciously an with "due regard" will he approve that member to use them. After that, a LT who is trained checks your vehicle out every 6 months to make sure that everything is functioning (brakes, lights, battery load, turn signals, emergency lights, emergency siren, etc.)

It's a very rural area and most of the guys only use it when approaching a tractor or when they get into the village where the firehouse is. Otherwise, they are not getting there any faster by going lights and sirens when there is no one else around on the country roads.

I personally choose not to have them because A) I don't want to pay for it and B) I don't see a need. If I get into town and catch the lights wrong, I park my car in a fire lane next to the red light, put on a yellow vest, and proceed to walk/jog to the station for the 2 blocks I am away. Everyone in town knows our yellow vests and yields to us when we're on foot; at night, there is no one around anyway; and my car is parked in a fire lane, but since I'm on the department we're not going to be using that anytime soon anyway!

Plus it's good exercise :)
 
Miscusi said:
such an interesting topic, I think that lights on personal vehicles are a great idea for those responders who are constantly "on call" in some small town or less populated area who might be summoned in the middle of the night to respond to a MCI where there are a very limited amount of qualified responders...

Much like how here in NY, MDs have special plates to allow parking almost anywhere.

but then, in places like that, there wouldnt be any large amount of traffic to deal with anyway so lights are not really that necessary.

I think in big cities, there is enough emergency staff working that no one else needs lights..
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I agree. In the little town where I volunteer they help. I have used mine probably 2 times this year. On Sunday of this week I was sitting at our kitchen table and our tones dropped for a 5th call (5 within 3 minutes), HELP NEEDED. I live about 2.5 miles from the station so I turned on my strobe and proceeded to the station. In the sections of roads that are 2 lanes, most people will pull to the right to let you move on, or if you are sitting at a light and need to turn they will let you proceed first. I was able to get to the station a little quicker, grab an ambulance and meet the fire dept. on scene with a transport unit. I also respond to the scene if there is a driver at the station and they need an AIC, we will just meet on scene and then go back and get my car when we're done. I am also career staff at another EMS agency where I run at night and I never use my light for them because if I'm not on the clock I don't go because it's way too far and a flashing light would not help me get there quick enough to even be helpful.
 
Where I volunteer the only person allowed to have lights and sirens in a POV is the current Fire Chief and the Fire Police (basically they show up and direct traffic, can only use Lights on scene). Chief can get them because they pretty much have to show up to every fire call even from home. Usually though they don't even bother and just race to the scene or fire house without them.
 
NVRob said:
What? :blink:
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Just trying to make the point that if the agent has these designations, then he is well versed in insurance law, similar to a paramedic that continues learning and obtaining knowledge after they are licensed and adds ACLS, CCEMT-P, behind there name.

If an agent hasn't spent time in these classes, there is no way he/she knows insurance law to the extent they should. They teach very little when you take classes to prepare for testing for your license.
 
bigbaldguy said:
I hate looking up abbreviations. There's always a million possibilities you have to sift through.
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CIC - Certified Insurance Counselor
CPCU- Chartered Property and Casualty Underwriter
CLU- Chartered Life Underwriter
CRIS- Construction Risk Insurance Specialist

Each means that the agent has spent hours upon hours getting better at what they do.
 
ffemt8978 said:
I don't think that is necessary or even appropriate for here, because it would be a regional and company issue (wouldn't want anyone to get in trouble for it).
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I agree. Just to let you know, I called one of the carriers I represent, a HUGE carrier, and verified what I stated on the forum about coverage. I am correct, they WOULD NOT deny a claim if I am in my personal vehicle responding to a call with my strobe on. Like any other situation I must obey state and county laws. Even if I didn't they would still pay the claim but I know they would drop me like a bad habit after paying the claim, just like if I got caught drinking and driving. BASED ON VIRGINIA LAW!!

-UNLESS SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED IN YOUR POLICY LANGUAGE, YOU HAVE A SIGNED AND VALID CONTRACT, AND YOU HAVE DONE YOUR PART BY PAYING YOUR PREMIUMS LIKE PROMISED ,THE INSURANCE CARRIER MUST PAY THE CLAIM-
 
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VirginiaEMT said:
CIC - Certified Insurance Counselor
CPCU- Chartered Property and Casualty Underwriter
CLU- Chartered Life Underwriter
CRIS- Construction Risk Insurance Specialist

Each means that the agent has spent hours upon hours getting better at what they do.
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Oh sure now you spell it out after I spent 30 minutes on wiki sifting through them.

hmmm "certified interim cadet" nah that can't be right. Uh "commander in chief" nope. Oh maybe it's "certified irrigation counselor" lol :blink:

http://www.acronymfinder.com/CIC.html
 
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