Opinion on Age

[sbp7993]

I just think being 16 is way to young for someone to be in care for a Pt. I can just see it now a little 16y/o kid does a ride along with ALS see's a female around his age or even in there 20's or 30's and the female Pt is a trauma and they take her shirt and bra off and he gets all excited and gets immature and starts talking with all his freinds about it. Ya the girl may have a nice body (figure) but i could just see a little 16y/o running to all his friends talking about it or smiling in the back of an ambulance trying not to laugh because there all excited.

I know some 18 year olds and 20 year olds that would do the same thing.

 

[emtstudent04]

I know some 18 year olds and 20 year olds that would do the same thing.

True, and if that does happen they should not be in this field. That's unexceptable behavior.

 

[wolfwyndd]

If a 16 year old can pass the LICENSING requirements for the state that they live in to become an EMT, I don't see anything wrong with it. I think veneficus put it best. They teach all those skills to people YOUNGER then 16, what does it matter that an EMT is only 16? As long as they can pass the state standard.

 

[Trayos]

Why should a 16 y/o be in ems if he is going to be immature? Your going to tell me you couldn't see that happening?

If the immature behavior has a result that impacts the situation, then it is completely inappropriate. And if the pt. has to be exposed in the first place, there is probably something more pressing that will attract attention.

 

[firetender]

About Crawling Into Others' Boxes

What is your opinion on a 16 year old (or other young people) being an EMT?

I'm sorry, but sixteen is entirely too young to participate in EMS.

Joan of Arc was SEVENTEEN before she led the French Army into war!

At sixteen she was still immature because all she could handle was building allies in the court of France that would eventually put her in charge of three decisive battles in the One Hundred Years War.

(Although she literally burned out at 19; I predict a happier ending for you.)

I worked a lot with Explorer Scouts, starting at 16 y.o. who were quite capable then and, in fact surpassed in maturity AND ability to respond MANY of my partners. Some went on to be sterling career medics.

If you as a sixteen year old have the inspiration and DRIVE to put up with the negative BS here about ability having a number, then that says something about WHO you are.

No, I wouldn't put you in charge of a serious situation, but just like the rest of us, Something will put you in charge, over your head, and you'll have to do the best you can.

Blessings and Good Fortune!

 

[Shishkabob]

True, and if that does happen they should not be in this field. That's unexceptable behavior.

Why? How is that any worse than anyone here speaking of CPR stories? Or saying that they had a pretty cool call last shift that they got to run? It makes us bad people to speak of our experiences because someone else suffered?




So long as the person is professional in dealing with public, who the hell cares about what they tell their friends? I guarantee you've told a cool EMS story to someone you know.

 

[Trayos]

I'm sorry, but sixteen is entirely too young to participate in EMS.

Joan of Arc was SEVENTEEN before she led the French Army into war!

At sixteen she was still immature because all she could handle was building allies in the court of France that would eventually put her in charge of three decisive battles in the One Hundred Years War.

(Although she literally burned out at 19; I predict a happier ending for you.)

I worked a lot with Explorer Scouts, starting at 16 y.o. who were quite capable then and, in fact surpassed in maturity AND ability to respond MANY of my partners. Some went on to be sterling career medics.

If you as a sixteen year old have the inspiration and DRIVE to put up with the negative BS here about ability having a number, then that says something about WHO you are.

No, I wouldn't put you in charge of a serious situation, but just like the rest of us, Something will put you in charge, over your head, and you'll have to do the best you can.

Blessings and Good Fortune!

+1
Good stuff.

 

[yankeefan213]

I am a 16 y/o EMT-B in NJ. I agree with the idea of 16 year olds with maturity and judgement being the exception rather than the rule, but (to stereotype) going off to college and joing a frat and doing all the crazy s*** associated with that doesn't exatly demonstrate great maturity either

I believe that the way my volunteer corps handles its under 18's (you must be 16 to take the class in NJ) is terrific. As soon as you get your state certification, all new members go on probationary status for 6 months (which is where I am now). Since under 18s must be the third person on the crew (driver and full over 18 EMT), they essentially get two years experience before being tossed out on their own, which is much better than the mere 6 months the over 18s get.

I am fortunate. On my usual shift I ride with a very experienced (30 yrs+) EMT. After the first few shifts (I guess she has seen so many newbes that she can read them pretty quick) she has essentially let me run all of the calls we are on. We split up the work, and she teaches as I experience things for the first time, but, as long as my decision won't adversly affect pt care, she essentially lets me decide what we are doing. And if I make a poor call (like I would do if she--or any other EMT--did) she says to me, "Hey we gotta do it this way because..." And if I realize that I am over my head (haven't done something before etc) I have the confidence in myself to say "Hey partner I need some help. What should we do here?" So after I turn eighteen in two years, I will have had two years of experience running calls, making me a better EMT than I would have been had I been 18 when I took the class.

Incidentally, here you need to be 19.5 to be a driver, so no issues with 16y/o drivers here.

Finally, this is not child labor in my opinion. I am VOLUNTEERING and I find it quite rediculous that the government has stuck its nose into my business telling me I can't be dispatched after midnight. BULL**** Having three people on a crew (especially when the driver is not an EMT) vastly improves quality of care, no matter the age of the provider. How much maturity does it take to hold a 5x9 on a boo boo?

 

[MrBrown]

Brown strongly believes that the better Ambulance Officers are those who are a bit older, perhaps in thier mid twenties who have gone out into the world and gotten some life experience first.

You would be hard pressed to find somebody in the Ambulance Service here, in Australia or the UK who disagrees.

 

[usafmedic45]

I am a 16 y/o EMT-B in NJ. I agree with the idea of 16 year olds with maturity and judgement being the exception rather than the rule, but (to stereotype) going off to college and joing a frat and doing all the crazy s*** associated with that doesn't exatly demonstrate great maturity either

I agree with you to a point but then again, it is the fact that you do stupid crap and live to figure out to not try that again that is what matters.

Since under 18s must be the third person on the crew (driver and full over 18 EMT), they essentially get two years experience before being tossed out on their own, which is much better than the mere 6 months the over 18s get.

Honestly, regardless of age, no one should be turned fully loose as a BLS provider without at least several months of clinical preceptorship beyond what is required for the credential. For ALS, it honestly should be more like at a very minimum a year (in a very busy service) or two to three years.

I am VOLUNTEERING and I find it quite rediculous that the government has stuck its nose into my business telling me I can't be dispatched after midnight.

Volunteer or not, you're still an employee so the rules are the same. As for the after midnight rule, just remember the rules are not written for the best and brightest. They are written for the malevolent, stupid and dense amongst us.

How much maturity does it take to hold a 5x9 on a boo boo?

It's not necessarily the maturity to do procedures that matters. My daughter will be six later this year and can do almost every first aid skill that a Basic EMT would be allowed to do.

Where maturity and inner resilience becomes a huge factor is the ability to see humanity at its absolute worst and still keep functioning both in the short term (getting through the call) and the long term (not burning out or blowing your brains out because of cumulative wear and tear). 99.99% of kids are not able to do that. Hell, most people my age (30) struggle to do that under 'normal' stress.

I've been in your shoes (teenage EMS provider) and what I am speaking is from experiences myself and my friends have had. Very few people are mentally capable of having their best friend die quite literally in front of them and still function, most certainly if the folks in question are still growing up. This happened to me when I was 19 and it nearly destroyed me. In a lot of ways it did. It has taken me many years to get past it. When you're not even legally allowed to drink a beer and you have a Viet Nam SF veteran comment that if he didn't know better he would swear you had seen too much combat, that's a good indicator that you've seen because you're staring through him him (what they call the "thousand yard stare"), you realize you've seen too much way too fast.

It sucks to hear it repeatedly said that there will always be trauma so just be patient, but that is fairly sound advice for your wellbeing.

 

[yankeefan213]

Brown strongly believes that the better Ambulance Officers are those who are a bit older, perhaps in thier mid twenties who have gone out into the world and gotten some life experience first.

You would be hard pressed to find somebody in the Ambulance Service here, in Australia or the UK who disagrees.

I don't entirely disagree; certainly life experience helps. But where do you get that experience? You have to go out and do things and if being the third man on an EMT crew doesn't give you that experience to be a better EMT in your 20s, what will?

 

[yankeefan213]

I agree with you to a point but then again, it is the fact that you do stupid crap and live to figure out to not try that again that is what matters.



Honestly, regardless of age, no one should be turned fully loose as a BLS provider without at least several months of clinical preceptorship beyond what is required for the credential. For ALS, it honestly should be more like at a very minimum a year (in a very busy service) or two to three years.



Volunteer or not, you're still an employee so the rules are the same. As for the after midnight rule, just remember the rules are not written for the best and brightest. They are written for the malevolent, stupid and dense amongst us.



It's not necessarily the maturity to do procedures that matters. My daughter will be six later this year and can do almost every first aid skill that a Basic EMT would be allowed to do.

Where maturity and inner resilience becomes a huge factor is the ability to see humanity at its absolute worst and still keep functioning both in the short term (getting through the call) and the long term (not burning out or blowing your brains out because of cumulative wear and tear). 99.99% of kids are not able to do that. Hell, most people my age (30) struggle to do that under 'normal' stress.

I've been in your shoes (teenage EMS provider) and what I am speaking is from experiences myself and my friends have had. Very few people are mentally capable of having their best friend die quite literally in front of them and still function, most certainly if the folks in question are still growing up. This happened to me when I was 19 and it nearly destroyed me. In a lot of ways it did. It has taken me many years to get past it. When you're not even legally allowed to drink a beer and you have a Viet Nam SF veteran comment that if he didn't know better he would swear you had seen too much combat, that's a good indicator that you've seen because you're staring through him him (what they call the "thousand yard stare"), you realize you've seen too much way too fast.

It sucks to hear it repeatedly said that there will always be trauma so just be patient, but that is fairly sound advice for your wellbeing.

I have to say that here again I agree. I cannot say that I have seen, or will ever hope to see, what you have seen. For that you have my sincere respect. I certainly hope that tomorrow or the next day someone will press the magic button and there will be peace on Earth, but for now I will deal with the reality that is before me. I have no choice but to be patient and wait and let reality unfold, but it is of course human nature to want control over yourself, and I resent certain rules and regs, as I am sure everyone has at some point. But like you said, there will forever be the malevolent, stupid and dense.

 

[Jay]

What I find most funny about this post is that I joined the Navy when I was 17 and was selected to work in Naval Reactors/Nuclear Propulsion. The real ironic part is that most of us that went into that program were well under 21 years of age and about as fresh as fresh meat gets. Once I went out into the fleet itself, I experienced all kinds of four letter words being thrown at me by disgruntled sailors with many years on me who thought that I simply had my rank given to me. You learn to build a thick skin which takes you far in life may it be the military or business or EMS.

Bottom line is that I was there and I have learned, use this as a time to learn and really enjoy what you like doing while your dreams are still fresh and before the weight of the world has had an opportunity to crush them because one day that chance will vanish.

Also use this as an opportunity to not only learn but to develop a thick skin because the more that you mature into a young adult, the harder it will become and if you do plan on going into medical school, the stress will only get harder. You have an amazing opportunity at hand to learn about something you like, do it and finally shine over people twice your age in a very short period of time if the learning lessons are applied properly.

Good luck!

 

[yankeefan213]

What I find most funny about this post is that I joined the Navy when I was 17 and was selected to work in Naval Reactors/Nuclear Propulsion. The real ironic part is that most of us that went into that program were well under 21 years of age and about as fresh as fresh meat gets. Once I went out into the fleet itself, I experienced all kinds of four letter words being thrown at me by disgruntled sailors with many years on me who thought that I simply had my rank given to me. You learn to build a thick skin which takes you far in life may it be the military or business or EMS.

Bottom line is that I was there and I have learned, use this as a time to learn and really enjoy what you like doing while your dreams are still fresh and before the weight of the world has had an opportunity to crush them because one day that chance will vanish.

Also use this as an opportunity to not only learn but to develop a thick skin because the more that you mature into a young adult, the harder it will become and if you do plan on going into medical school, the stress will only get harder. You have an amazing opportunity at hand to learn about something you like, do it and finally shine over people twice your age in a very short period of time if the learning lessons are applied properly.

Good luck!

Thank-you for the encouragement.

 

[usafmedic45]

But where do you get that experience? You have to go out and do things and if being the third man on an EMT crew doesn't give you that experience to be a better EMT in your 20s, what will?

I have what my students used to call my "95/5 rule":
95% of EMTs are in the profession because of 5% of the calls (GSWs, MVCs, bad MIs, etc)
The 5% of us that stay in the field more than about 10 years are sustained by the 95% of the calls.

A large swath of what we do has nothing to do with technical skill and this is where a lot of us lose sight of what actually "makes a difference". I could teach a monkey to be a basic EMT if given sufficient time. What differentiates a good EMT from a truly great one is not so much their technical abilities but the ability to truly deal effectively with and empathize* with patients of all ilks. Both of those skills have to be gained through life experience and not necessarily the type that comes from clinical exposure.

The reason I mentioned the 95/5 rule is because 95% of cases the patients are going to judge your care based on how you treated them and not on what you did to them. I've never met a 17 year old EMT who can even begin to fathom how to comfort a woman who just lost her husband or the parents of a dead child.

*- Note: I use 'empathize' for a reason. Sympathy (feeling sorry for someone) is not often a good thing in clinical medicine. Empathy (feeling for someone) is essential. Feeling sorry for someone does no good for them and can cloud your judgement faster than almost anything.

 

[yankeefan213]

I have what my students used to call my "95/5 rule":
95% of EMTs are in the profession because of 5% of the calls (GSWs, MVCs, bad MIs, etc)
The 5% of us that stay in the field more than about 10 years are sustained by the 95% of the calls.

A large swath of what we do has nothing to do with technical skill and this is where a lot of us lose sight of what actually "makes a difference". I could teach a monkey to be a basic EMT if given sufficient time. What differentiates a good EMT from a truly great one is not so much their technical abilities but the ability to truly deal effectively with and empathize* with patients of all ilks. Both of those skills have to be gained through life experience and not necessarily the type that comes from clinical exposure.

The reason I mentioned the 95/5 rule is because 95% of cases the patients are going to judge your care based on how you treated them and not on what you did to them. I've never met a 17 year old EMT who can even begin to fathom how to comfort a woman who just lost her husband or the parents of a dead child.

*- Note: I use 'empathize' for a reason. Sympathy (feeling sorry for someone) is not often a good thing in clinical medicine. Empathy (feeling for someone) is essential. Feeling sorry for someone does no good for them and can cloud your judgement faster than almost anything.

Very good point and you will get no arguement from me here. When I naively started the process to become certified in April or May last year, I thought that I was in this for the blood and guts as well, but I have come to realize in my limited experience that empathy and the ability to comfort the patient is probably the most valuable skill there is, not because it saves the most lives, but because it does the most good.

 

[Jay]

Very good point and you will get no arguement from me here. When I naively started the process to become certified in April or May last year, I thought that I was in this for the blood and guts as well

I have only been blood soaked once in the last year. I too thought that it was going to be a bloodier trade but was not looking forward to the bleeders. My biggest concern was being able to learn enough to help no matter what the situation and even with massive amount of continuing education as well as field experience I seem to learn something new every call or every class.

I have come to realize in my limited experience that empathy and the ability to comfort the patient is probably the most valuable skill there is, not because it saves the most lives, but because it does the most good.

There is no reason why someone cannot start learning these skills at 15 or 17 because I know a lot of 30 and 40 year old's that have a hard time commanding these skills. The key to empathy is life experience and one starts gaining that when they are born, a 16 year old under stress is far from taking the lead to talk to someone who has just lost a relative but they can learn, we all learn, everyday. Besides, even those who can council someone who just lost a spouse or a child, they may have experienced death but in most cases not the same way... Is this truly empathy? Just a thought.

 

[MrBrown]

I don't entirely disagree; certainly life experience helps. But where do you get that experience? You have to go out and do things and if being the third man on an EMT crew doesn't give you that experience to be a better EMT in your 20s, what will?

With the modal shift towards Degree based external education there has been an influx of younger Officers into the ambulance service. Before that Ambulance Officers came from a variety of backgrounds far and wide but they were all in thier mid to late twenties and older. Brown knows ex truck drivers, paint salesmen, pilots, nurses, mechanics, school teachers and all sorts of people who left to become an ambo.

The introduction of the Degree means that younger people including school leavers are now being accepted. Brown thinks its more the person concerned than thier list of experiences however believes strongly those with more life experience relate much better to people and are able to handle some of the things seen in the role.

 

[DesertMedic66]

That seems weird to me. I just took the national registry last month and it said you have to be at least 18 to take the test. Also, at least for California, you have to have your national card with you when applying for state and county ,which you also have to be 18. No national card no state card was to be issued. And also just to sign up for the EMT class you had to be at least 18 years old. That's how it is in California at least. But doesn't make sence about the national registry card or even letting you take the test at 16 yrs.

 

[usafmedic45]

But doesn't make sence about the national registry card or even letting you take the test at 16 yrs.

That's the issue with not having a single standard for credentialing. Granted, I don't think the NREMT exams are nearly difficult enough but its the best we have at the moment.