piranah
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i started at 18 and am now a medic at 20...dont worry just work hard
Opinion on Age
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I think you guys seriously overestimate what care an EMT provides.
EMTs provde CPR. CPR is taught to scouts at a much younger age.
EMTs assist with taking medications prescribed by a physician. Patients take those medications without the help of an EMT. Anyone can buy over the counter medications.
EMTs control bleeding by noninvasive measures. So do scouts, so do life guards, babysitters, and a host of young people.
EMTs can splint potential fractures. Again, people are taught considerably more dangerous skills than that. How old were you when you first shot a gun? I was 9.
EMTs administer Oxygen, which is a drug. Of course we can't get many paramedics to do it properly so what is the harm in letting an EMT do it?
EMTs immobolize people on spineboards. So do life guards. (usually around 14) and just like life guards, they immobilize just about everyone, called for or not. Older EMTs are not exempt from this behavior.
EMTs assisst more advanced practicioners by doing exactly what they are told. Doesn't take much to do exactly what you are told. (look at the rules for enlisting in the military if a parent will sign for a minor, it is quite shocking)
EMTs assess whether a patient has an airway, is breathing, and has a pulse. Both the assessment and interventions are taught in CPR.
Being an EMT is not synonomous with working on an ambulance. There are healthcare facilities, amuzement parks, camps, red cross activities, and a host of other positions an EMT fills. Let's go back to life guard. Starting age 14. Imagine that a 16 y/o with 120 more hours of education. staggering...
Driving an ambulance: Most insurance agencies won't cover a 18 year old driving an emergency vehicle, in most states it is illegal to drive without insurance. Do you really think any organization is going to purposefully hire a 16 year old and violate the law. Use your head.
In no state that I am aware of does a minor work independantly on an ambulance. They must be accompanied by somebody of equal or greater certification who is legally an adult. Now working on an ambulance is dangerous. If you are going to be killed in EMS it is likely that it will be a traffic accident. But it will then be the fault of the adult driving without due regard for the safety of the crew or bystanders. Adults who even today do not want to even hear that the whole "emergency" response does more harm than good.
Next time you get on a roller coaster, ask how old the operator is.
About now somebody will say something completely ignorant like: "they might be traumatized by what they see." That trauma is directly related to being sheltered from the realities of life. which includes witnessing death. Inevitably some will be traumatized, but those same people would be truamatized by the event if they were 18, 21, 26, or 50.
I don't have the space here in 15,000 characters to type out all of the harsh realities children much younger than 16 witness and navigate everyday. It is not a mystery why they don't wind up completely wrecked. Just like it is no mystery why people who do wind up wrecked do. I am more than willing to discuss it though.
I have also heard the issues about sexual harassment of younger providers. I don't condone or accept it, but it is no more prevalent and I am willing to bet less so that say being involved in afterschool or sunday bible study... The band, the choir, the drama club, or even getting some "private help" from the teacher. Mature adults understand that adolescents are sexually maturing and active. Those same mature adults keep their hands to themselves and do not reciprocate the advance. a smart person, no matter how mature, avoids any act that could even be remotely considered improper. Especially are careful to avoid a "He said...She said..." situation. Sexual harassment also works both ways. If the minor is behaving improperly for a professional environment, then they need to be disciplined for it like any other employee would be.
"The material is too hard." The rest of the world shouldn't be held back because some people find mastering 900 pages of 8th grade text difficult. We don't say children cannot be world class athletes, actors, or any host of activities that could put them at risk or in harms way.
The OP has completed the same standards as any EMT in the US today. The OP is now your junior collegue, (possibly even your superior by education) they are entitled to the same you are. Which is not being told they shouldn't be in the profession for whatever reason you can dream up.
EMTs provde CPR. CPR is taught to scouts at a much younger age.
EMTs assist with taking medications prescribed by a physician. Patients take those medications without the help of an EMT. Anyone can buy over the counter medications.
EMTs control bleeding by noninvasive measures. So do scouts, so do life guards, babysitters, and a host of young people.
EMTs can splint potential fractures. Again, people are taught considerably more dangerous skills than that. How old were you when you first shot a gun? I was 9.
EMTs administer Oxygen, which is a drug. Of course we can't get many paramedics to do it properly so what is the harm in letting an EMT do it?
EMTs immobolize people on spineboards. So do life guards. (usually around 14) and just like life guards, they immobilize just about everyone, called for or not. Older EMTs are not exempt from this behavior.
EMTs assisst more advanced practicioners by doing exactly what they are told. Doesn't take much to do exactly what you are told. (look at the rules for enlisting in the military if a parent will sign for a minor, it is quite shocking)
EMTs assess whether a patient has an airway, is breathing, and has a pulse. Both the assessment and interventions are taught in CPR.
Being an EMT is not synonomous with working on an ambulance. There are healthcare facilities, amuzement parks, camps, red cross activities, and a host of other positions an EMT fills. Let's go back to life guard. Starting age 14. Imagine that a 16 y/o with 120 more hours of education. staggering...
Driving an ambulance: Most insurance agencies won't cover a 18 year old driving an emergency vehicle, in most states it is illegal to drive without insurance. Do you really think any organization is going to purposefully hire a 16 year old and violate the law. Use your head.
In no state that I am aware of does a minor work independantly on an ambulance. They must be accompanied by somebody of equal or greater certification who is legally an adult. Now working on an ambulance is dangerous. If you are going to be killed in EMS it is likely that it will be a traffic accident. But it will then be the fault of the adult driving without due regard for the safety of the crew or bystanders. Adults who even today do not want to even hear that the whole "emergency" response does more harm than good.
Next time you get on a roller coaster, ask how old the operator is.
About now somebody will say something completely ignorant like: "they might be traumatized by what they see." That trauma is directly related to being sheltered from the realities of life. which includes witnessing death. Inevitably some will be traumatized, but those same people would be truamatized by the event if they were 18, 21, 26, or 50.
I don't have the space here in 15,000 characters to type out all of the harsh realities children much younger than 16 witness and navigate everyday. It is not a mystery why they don't wind up completely wrecked. Just like it is no mystery why people who do wind up wrecked do. I am more than willing to discuss it though.
I have also heard the issues about sexual harassment of younger providers. I don't condone or accept it, but it is no more prevalent and I am willing to bet less so that say being involved in afterschool or sunday bible study... The band, the choir, the drama club, or even getting some "private help" from the teacher. Mature adults understand that adolescents are sexually maturing and active. Those same mature adults keep their hands to themselves and do not reciprocate the advance. a smart person, no matter how mature, avoids any act that could even be remotely considered improper. Especially are careful to avoid a "He said...She said..." situation. Sexual harassment also works both ways. If the minor is behaving improperly for a professional environment, then they need to be disciplined for it like any other employee would be.
"The material is too hard." The rest of the world shouldn't be held back because some people find mastering 900 pages of 8th grade text difficult. We don't say children cannot be world class athletes, actors, or any host of activities that could put them at risk or in harms way.
The OP has completed the same standards as any EMT in the US today. The OP is now your junior collegue, (possibly even your superior by education) they are entitled to the same you are. Which is not being told they shouldn't be in the profession for whatever reason you can dream up.
Well said! We expect people barely out of high school to go off to war and I'm sure what they see there is far worse than anything they'd see riding on an ambulance in their town (depending on where they live). As long as the person is qualified and has the maturity, I don't care how old they are. I know people in their 50's who act like they're 18 and 18 year olds who are very mature. Don't look at their age, look at the person.
I'd like to discuss this because it's something I've always wondered about. Probably need to start a new thread though.
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dudemanguy
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The overwhelming majority of states in the US(like 46 out of 50) dont allow someone to work as an EMT before the age of 18 for a REASON. In fact a LOT of reasons.
Do I really need to list those reasons?
As for someone bringing up the military. Last time I checked 16 year olds arent allowed to enlist, and EMT's dont have a sergeant barking orders at them, you need self discipline and maturity in EMS.
That's great some 16 year olds are more mature than others, but it's not like theres some magical maturity litmus test. At 16 your brain is not fully developed, especially the pre frontal cortex, the part responsible for planning, judgement and risk assessment.
Is there really some EMT shortage in new jersey to the point they need to rely on child labor?
Do I really need to list those reasons?
As for someone bringing up the military. Last time I checked 16 year olds arent allowed to enlist, and EMT's dont have a sergeant barking orders at them, you need self discipline and maturity in EMS.
That's great some 16 year olds are more mature than others, but it's not like theres some magical maturity litmus test. At 16 your brain is not fully developed, especially the pre frontal cortex, the part responsible for planning, judgement and risk assessment.
Is there really some EMT shortage in new jersey to the point they need to rely on child labor?
im 21 now, got my nq-emt(the u.s's nremt) when i was 20 and i did find it very hard to get anyone to take me seriously but eventually they will see that you know your stuff and are serious about ems. i can understand why they may be a bit concerned but thats neither here nor there, you passed the exam and prooved yourself.
Shishkabob
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Oh yes, please do list those reasons.
The only reason I can think up that those states do that is because it's the same age someone is considered an emancipated adult, able to do 98% of the things older adults can.
PS-- Minors can join the US military at 17.
If it is seen as normal for people my and piranhas age, at 21 and 20, to be Paramedics in charge, with the drugs that we have and damage we can do, why can a 16 year old not assist? I can BARELY drink, and piranha still can't.
Sure. But it needs to be more than supposition. Otherwise we can go back and forth on farm labor, ranch labor, menenite lumber mills, teenage sailors circumnavigating the globe, junior ROTC, civil air patrol, junior seamen, SAR teams, explorer programs, pilots, and the like.
How about taking/sending teenaged missionaries to disaster zones or third world countries? Not against the law in any state. Certainly more dangerous than being an EMT.
I think by making it the age of majority it just simplifies the legal ramifications. Then you don't need excess laws about having to work under an adult, staying at the station past midnight, etc. You can also just use national registry certification and don't have to maintain extra State administration.
I think you are not seeing that in states that allow teenage EMTs, the teengers are not operating independantly, they are performing skills under supervision. (But EMT skills are so mundane than even if it was independant, it wouldn't matter so strict is the oversight on EMTs)
But just because something is made simple doesn't mean you are preventing some potential tragedy.
I like the lifeguard example because a complete water environment is incompatible with human life. In the "reach, throw, row, go" mentality somebody as young as 14 is expected to enter a hostile environment where somebody is already in need of rescue after every better option has failed. Talk about a safety nightmare.
"Gloves on scene safe..." totally precludes that same risk for an EMT.
Infectious diseases? My favorite. Not being an EMT totally precludes a teenager from contracting hepatitis B/C, HIV, HPV, CMV, HSV, MRSA, TB, and every other one you can think of. (sarcasm)
Are you suggesting that a 17 year old is considerably more mature than a 16 year old? If the parents sign, the kid goes to the infantry. Talk about natural selection...
Self discipline and maturity. Like a martial artist? An olympic figure skater or gymnast? A musician or other performing artist? A 4.0 average student? One who has perfect attendance? How about any amateur athlete?
I guess the evolution of the species whereby younger organisms are more suitable to the environment than the older organisms is lost.
Not to mention the use of collective experience, which is unique to Homo Sapiens, and is our specie's greatest assest. Even more so than being able to manipulate our environment.
That prefrontal cortex doesn't get in the way way of raising a child. Shall I list the countries girls are married with kids by 14? It wasn't that long ago in the US. (or in some compound in Texas or Arizona) How about an emancipated minor by pregnancy? The same prefrontal cortex also doesn't mature until 27+ years so should we raise the age of majority to say 30? 18 year olds can vote. That can have far more ipact on peoples' lives than an EMT.
If you like the soldier anaology, how often do old soldiers get awarded the same citations for "heroism" that younger ones do? speaking of which, there are several nations fielding both male and female child soldiers. (as well as suicide bombers) You can't measure right or wrong in another society using the values of your own.
I am more than willing to having a debate on chronological age used to determine social maturity vs. biological maturity. I can even detail the use of science and pseudoscience to reinforce social predudices. (like a prefrontal cortex argument)
We could even consider the sociological value of child labor.
Or how about the energy of reproduction in Western society as a reason to increase age requirements to secure home range resources to maintain the qulity of living standards in such a society?
No offense intended, but that prefrontal cortex argument is rather thin. We could look at the ability of children and teens to retain and use information which is infinitely better than adults and say they are capable of learning more faster and therfore can make better decisions if we base off of volume of information available.
I don't think it is a shortage, I think being an EMT so that simple a high school student could do it proficently. It requires very little critical thinking and no medical education. It is far less than the vocational highschools that allow students to obtain an LPN. (LVN whatever you lke to call it) EMT is a skills based vocation, no different than driving a car, pounding nails into wood, laying bricks or pipe or working on a farm. It requires only 120 hours of skill instruction. Less than that of a cosmetologist or barber.
Is there some insight about being an EMT I haven't figured out or been privy to?
You really want a brain teaser? In european highschool education, the last 2 years are equivalent course work to a sophmore level in a US college. That directly equates that a highschool school graduate has a higher level of education than a US paramedic. (ouch)
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piranah
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well said Linuss....i can admin narcotic meds but i cannot drink a beer legally...makes a lot of sense i know
piranah
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lol... im sorry...my fragile young mind couldn't handle the trauma of that situation lolol..
JPINFV
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You know what's funny about that? At a water park, the life guards can be 14. However, the ride operators (the employees who tell you to cross your arms, cross your ankles, and when to go down the slide) have to be at least 15 y/o because of how the rides are categorized.
I don't consider what I do child labor, I am a VOLUNTEER. I enjoy doing it!
Cclearly3
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I totally understand where you're coming from. I'm 19 and starting paramedic school earlier than any of the older EMTs are. I just got a new job working at an ambulance service and am really excited. The occasional "sweetheart" and "honey" still irks me sometimes, but you have to show them that you can't be broken down easily and that you can handle ANYTHING. Don't do anything stupid and use your age to your advantage while at the same time maintaining professionalism. Good luck to ya, kid.
fortsmithman
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LIke the words to Barry Maguires Eve of Destruction.
"Old enough to kill but not for voting"
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I would think there are quantifiable measures that could be taken to determine aptitude for EMS in junior members- such as acceptable grades, physical condition, legal record, etc. Add in some ride-alongs, and a clear outlining of what is to be expected, and you have the capacity to train a new member from the ground up.
This is just my opinion.
Honestly?
Not my kids. They can make employment decisions all they want when they reach eighteen. Up until then I make them and they wont be anywhere near an ambulance or fire truck. Hell if I have say in the matter they will never see the inside of an ambulance.
I have spent enough time in EMS to understand its no place for a sixteen year old. Hell Im not sure its any place for an eighteen year old.
Nothing personal but we cant institue rules based on the exception and you are probably the exception as far as maturity level. If they allow you they have to allow everyone and whos going to babysit the sixteen year old who hasnt matured?
Im sure you will make a great EMT/medic someday and Im sure you know your stuff but thats only half the the job its an uncontrolled enviorment to many variables.
Sorry the risks are too great.
Shishkabob
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dudemanguy
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I guess I'll take another stab at this one.
Heres a few reasons why I think its not a good idea to have 16 year olds working as EMTs(a view shared by like 47 of 50 states and nearly the entire industrialized world).
In most cases a 16 year old is a minor. An EMT couldnt even treat him unless it was implied consent or a parent gave permission, but you want a minor working as an EMT? Someone that age is not even legally responsible for providing and caring for themselves, you want them to be held legally responsible for the medical care of another person?
I think a 16 year olds main focus should be on education. They have their whole life to work, in EMS or whatever else they choose, so what's the rush? Enjoy being a kid while you can. If you want some spending cash go wash dishes or work in something that doesnt involve life or death decisions. If you want to prepare for a career in medicine, focus on doing well in math and science and take whatever health care related classes and training you can.
It's totally unnecessary and impractical. As already stated no one would let him drive an ambulance, which significantly limits his usefulness as an EMT. In addition child labor laws would have to be followed regarding when and how long he could work.
The fact ONE 16 year old is mature and level headed enough to do it doesnt mean most are, how are you going to decide which are and arent, again there is no litmus test. If the state decides 16 year olds can work as EMTs, that means ALL 16 year olds who pass an EMT course can do it, and as we know the quality of EMT courses varies wildly.
Many patients would be uncomfortable having a 16 year old kid treating them, so were going to add to their stress level and discomfort why?
EMS is not a structured environment, an individual EMT can find himself in a situation where he/she is making life or death decisions for others with no one looking over their shoulder, ESPECIALLY in a situation outside of an ambulance service.
Ok someone brought up the military again, as if the military and EMS are somehow related. Anyway what the military does supports what I'm saying if anything. The US military DOES NOT allow 16 year olds, regardless of maturity level, to enlist. Yes in RARE cases you will have a 17 year old ship for bootcamp prior to turning 18, when I served they still had to have a HS diploma. And to be honest I also think thats a bad idea, so Im consistent.
So theres a list, I'm sure I could continue. Is the sky going to fall because NJ allows some kids to possess an EMT certification they cant really use? Not really. But whats the point of even allowing it?
Heres a few reasons why I think its not a good idea to have 16 year olds working as EMTs(a view shared by like 47 of 50 states and nearly the entire industrialized world).
In most cases a 16 year old is a minor. An EMT couldnt even treat him unless it was implied consent or a parent gave permission, but you want a minor working as an EMT? Someone that age is not even legally responsible for providing and caring for themselves, you want them to be held legally responsible for the medical care of another person?
I think a 16 year olds main focus should be on education. They have their whole life to work, in EMS or whatever else they choose, so what's the rush? Enjoy being a kid while you can. If you want some spending cash go wash dishes or work in something that doesnt involve life or death decisions. If you want to prepare for a career in medicine, focus on doing well in math and science and take whatever health care related classes and training you can.
It's totally unnecessary and impractical. As already stated no one would let him drive an ambulance, which significantly limits his usefulness as an EMT. In addition child labor laws would have to be followed regarding when and how long he could work.
The fact ONE 16 year old is mature and level headed enough to do it doesnt mean most are, how are you going to decide which are and arent, again there is no litmus test. If the state decides 16 year olds can work as EMTs, that means ALL 16 year olds who pass an EMT course can do it, and as we know the quality of EMT courses varies wildly.
Many patients would be uncomfortable having a 16 year old kid treating them, so were going to add to their stress level and discomfort why?
EMS is not a structured environment, an individual EMT can find himself in a situation where he/she is making life or death decisions for others with no one looking over their shoulder, ESPECIALLY in a situation outside of an ambulance service.
Ok someone brought up the military again, as if the military and EMS are somehow related. Anyway what the military does supports what I'm saying if anything. The US military DOES NOT allow 16 year olds, regardless of maturity level, to enlist. Yes in RARE cases you will have a 17 year old ship for bootcamp prior to turning 18, when I served they still had to have a HS diploma. And to be honest I also think thats a bad idea, so Im consistent.
So theres a list, I'm sure I could continue. Is the sky going to fall because NJ allows some kids to possess an EMT certification they cant really use? Not really. But whats the point of even allowing it?