New York's Poorest

[triemal04]

Ok triemal... I understand what you are saying... but by that logic, I guess it would be good to know how the NYC EMT's take home pay compare with a NYC cabbie working similar hours? I don't even know where to look.

To be honest I'm also curious about that, though the comparison isn't the best. I'm betting a cab driver transports more people in a given period of time than an EMT-B does. As well, most cab drivers that I've known (the ones who work for a company and don't own their cab's outright anyway) don't get paid much more than minimum wage. The real money comes from the tips, and for some, a percentage of what's on the meter at the end of their shift.

 

[firecoins]

But why? This is the question that firecoins refuses, and/or is unable to answer; why should an EMT-B be paid more when all they are doing is acting as a taxi or moving van for someone?

They are doing BLS. Its been answered over and over. Taxi Cab drivers are not required to backboard anyone, control bleeding, sit in NYPDs central booking for 3 hours to get a patient, do CPR, carry a pt down 8 flights of stairs in a building with no elevator and yada yada yada. And ALS doesn't paid by the procedure. If they did, they would make less then the EMT-Bs. A FDNY EMT-B get 7 to 10 calls per 8 hour shift. Its work and they need a raise. Its that simple.

 

[VentMedic]

They are doing BLS. Its been answered over and over. Taxi Cab drivers are not required to backboard anyone, control bleeding, sit in NYPDs central booking for 3 hours to get a patient, do CPR, carry a pt down 8 flights of stairs in a building with no elevator and yada yada yada. And ALS doesn't paid by the procedure. If they did, they would make less then the EMT-Bs. A FDNY EMT-B get 7 to 10 calls per 8 hour shift. Its work and they need a raise. Its that simple.

firecoins,

Have you ever worked as a taxi cab driver especially in NYC?

I'll take the 8 flights of stairs while doing CPR any day over a cab driver's job.

Education is your key to an easier job if being an EMT-B is too physically demanding.

I would hope one has entered the field as an EMT-B with the understanding that it is barely an entry level provider position that requires minimal education and training regardless of what the flashy TV ads say.

Sidenote of history:
There was a time in the late 1970s and 1980s when ambulances from some of the larger private companies were leased/franchised out to individuals like taxis. Now that was a rough life. An ambulance had to run a minimum of 24 calls in 24 hours just to break even. Usually the "owner" was your driver and they were driven to make a profit. 30 - 35 calls in 24 hours was not an unusual shift.

 

[CFRBryan347768]

I think that people want a raise in EMS because its what they want to do their whole life, not work 4 diffrent stations, but a steady ambulance shift and have the pay be able to satisfy them, and their needs do I personally see that happening no...Maybe down the road yes. But their is really no good answer for a pay raise other than you can't directly make a living out of working EMS unless you put you time in working 2-3 other jobs. So the want for the pay rasie would be just to make more money to support your self with ONE job. I know i kind of rambled if any thign is unclear let me know and ill clear it up.

 

[Jon]

We can't look to be PAID as professional healthcare providers until we TRAIN like professional healthcare providers and we ACT like professional healthcare providers.

 

[CFRBryan347768]

We can't look to be PAID as professional healthcare providers until we TRAIN like professional healthcare providers and we ACT like professional healthcare providers.

As sad as it sounds I think 100% of the EMS community will not do that until TRAINING is increased. And with training increased the weak immature will start to drop like flies.

 

[firecoins]

firecoins,

I would hope one has entered the field as an EMT-B with the understanding that it is barely an entry level provider position that requires minimal education and training regardless of what the flashy TV ads say.
.

NYC EMTs and Medics are professionals. There is a shortage because the pay sucks. They deserve to get paid more. Ill post more later

 

[Zephyr]

If this bothers you so much, why aren't you advocating that every EMT-B in every city, town, county, and burg make more money? After all, each is doing the same job.

EVERY EMT and otherwise low-paid professional deserves to get paid more. This is why I wrote all my government officials from the Mayor on up to the White House about EMT salaries and the shortage. This isn't the first topic I've written them about either. Why do actors, singers, and athletes get paid so much more to entertain us, when other people do more for people's survival & development, and risk more? E.g. military personnel, cops, FFs, EMS, teachers, social workers, etc.

 

[JPINFV]

^
1. Entertainers and athletes produce products that make a lot more money then those you listed. When was the last time an EMT produced a 30 million dollars for an ambulance company?

2. There are much less people who are willing and able to be an entertainer or athlete.

3. Wages should be based in large part on supply and demand. Unfortunately, mandatory overtime tends to cushion an ambulance service from decreased demand since they are able to squeeze more work out of what's left of their employees.

 

[mikeylikesit]

^
3. Wages should be based in large part on supply and demand. Unfortunately, mandatory overtime tends to cushion an ambulance service from decreased demand since they are able to squeeze more work out of what's left of their employees.

Unfortunately JPINFV is correct on this one. There is a ton of demand but as long as we can work the overtime (or risk our jobs to the other thousands of people who just got out of school) then we have no room to negotiate salary.

 

[el Murpharino]

NYC EMTs and Medics are professionals. There is a shortage because the pay sucks. They deserve to get paid more. Ill post more later

Saying you're a professional doesn't entitle one to more pay. Not when the level of training can be completed in a matter of a few WEEKS, as opposed to college level graduates completing YEARS of schooling for maybe twice the pay you get. You're equating the pay structure to the gravity of the job at hand and not other factors (supply vs. demand, job "glamour", volunteerism, etc.) - and while that's a noble thought, you need to take into account that EMT's don't have not a whole lot more training than the 45 year old lady who just took the Red Cross first aid and CPR class. I believe the comparison to garbage men and EMT was made earlier...proving this point. I mean how dare someone who can splint, hold a 4x4 dressing on a wound, backboard, do CPR - the basics - get paid less than a lowly garbage man, who just heaves bags of trash into a truck. True, it may not take all of 120 hours of training to be a garbage man, but there aren't thousands of garbage men driving balls-out to the garbage station everytime a garbage emergency is called. People work in NYC for that FDNY label and patch on their shoulder, not the pay.

The more I thought about this issue, the more I realized that as a paramedic, I too probably make about as much if not more than someone with the same amount of initial education. Yes there are continuing education requirements needed every year, seminars and learning opportunities for me to attend...which adds to my breadth of knowledge and increases my education...but that's part of the job. It's no secret once you get to the paramedic level that you will need to keep up on skills and the ever-increasing changes in the medical field. Yes, my job may have more of an impact on the community than the biologist who has a masters degree, but why does that entitle me to more pay than him/her? Put us on the same level as RN's in regards to educational requirements (length, not exactly coursework) and maybe we'll get looked at the same.

Then again, maybe 6 years of being in the military has accustomed me to low pay, hard work, and few if any accolades or even thank you's.

 

[Arkymedic]

Why is anyone so shocked about this? Or a better question is, why does this always (yes always; it happens many times on these type of forums) get people in such a fury when it happens it NYC but not when it happens on a routine basis across the country? Reality check people, 27+K a year is a lot more than what many, many basics make nationwide. Yes, the cost of living is much higher, but the job that is being done is still the same.

You may want to remember that an EMT-basic really is the most bottom rung on the ladder; like it or not they are about the most disposable and easily found person in the medical field. Why pay them more when there are thousands more out there? Hell, why pay them more even if there aren't? They don't get taught enough to justify making a huge salary. If that's offensive to some...that's how it is. You need to get used to it, because it won't be changing anytime soon.

The paramedic salary is pretty crappy, but, it's really on par with what both FDNY firefighters make, as well as NYPD cops. Should it be more? Sure, but it is a civil service job, as well as an unrepresented and unappreciated one. So that's two strikes, and the lack of a mandatory degree is the third.

If you want changes, increase the requirements for education, increase the public awareness, and realize that bottum rung providers will never make that much. Simple fact of life.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/community/ems_employment.shtml#emt_salary
http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/community/ff_salary_benefits_080106.shtml
http://www.nypd2.org/html/recruit/salary.html

27+ is much more than I clear as a medic.

 

[triemal04]

They are doing BLS. Its been answered over and over. Taxi Cab drivers are not required to backboard anyone, control bleeding, sit in NYPDs central booking for 3 hours to get a patient, do CPR, carry a pt down 8 flights of stairs in a building with no elevator and yada yada yada. And ALS doesn't paid by the procedure. If they did, they would make less then the EMT-Bs. A FDNY EMT-B get 7 to 10 calls per 8 hour shift. Its work and they need a raise. Its that simple.

And BLS equates to jack. After all, it takes only 120-150 hours to learn how to do it, and in all honesty, could probably be learned in less. So, once again, why do they deserve to make more? Work is work, sure, but the McDonald's analogy remains...keep trying.

NYC EMTs and Medics are professionals. There is a shortage because the pay sucks. They deserve to get paid more. Ill post more later

Are you ever going to explain why they deserve more? It's really not because of the job they do, or the training, or the number of patients, or the care they give, so why?

I think that people want a raise in EMS because its what they want to do their whole life, not work 4 diffrent stations, but a steady ambulance shift and have the pay be able to satisfy them, and their needs do I personally see that happening no...Maybe down the road yes. But their is really no good answer for a pay raise other than you can't directly make a living out of working EMS unless you put you time in working 2-3 other jobs. So the want for the pay rasie would be just to make more money to support your self with ONE job. I know i kind of rambled if any thign is unclear let me know and ill clear it up.

Actually, you can make a living working in EMS with only one job, be it working private, hospital-based, third service, fire, non-profit, etc etc. You just can't do it as an EMT-B. Which is appropriate; it's an entry-level (very entry-level and poorly trained) position which, if this is to be your career, you should be moving beyond. Funny, every CNA that I know that works as a CNA (not in a different position where they happen to hold that cert) makes lousy pay, but none :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: about it that much because 1-they knew about it going in, and 2-most are planning on moving forward in the medical field or are just using it for a temporary job.

Why do people in EMS, primarily at the lowest levels, think they are so special?

27+ is much more than I clear as a medic.

I hope your cost of living is the least in the country, or you should be demanding a raise.

 

[ffemt8978]

And BLS equates to jack. After all, it takes only 120-150 hours to learn how to do it, and in all honesty, could probably be learned in less.

Interestingly, and sadly, the company I used to work for installing satellite TV systems now requires their new employees to go through 160 hours of training first. 80 in class room and 80 in the field. Installing satellite TV is a lot easier than being in EMS but the working conditions are about the same.

 

[triemal04]

Interestingly, and sadly, the company I used to work for installing satellite TV systems now requires their new employees to go through 160 hours of training first. 80 in class room and 80 in the field. Installing satellite TV is a lot easier than being in EMS but the working conditions are about the same.

Funny. A TV company requires more training to install a satellite TV than is required to provide medical care to people. And yet people still whine that EMT-B's don't get paid enough. Wonderful system we've got in the US, ain't it?

 

[CFRBryan347768]

Im glad your cna's plan on moving up in life because that is certainly not what most do in my area. Secondly they are working another job here.

 

[firecoins]

You know what. I am wrong. Apparently they do nothing because they don't do advanced medical procedures on scene. Showing up, doing the basics and taking people to the appropriate facility just isn't cutting it. Lets just replace FDNY EMTs with garbage men, satalite repairmen, movers and shakers. They will all do a better job anyway.

By the way NYC EMT-b...500 hours. Get the facts right.

 

[triemal04]

You know what. I am wrong. Apparently they do nothing because they don't do advanced medical procedures on scene. Showing up, doing the basics and taking people to the appropriate facility just isn't cutting it. Lets just replace FDNY EMTs with garbage men, satalite repairmen, movers and shakers. They will all do a better job anyway.

By the way NYC EMT-b...500 hours. Get the facts right.

Touchy touchy. It's not that they do nothing, it's that they do so little (as evidenced by your inability to give a good medical reason why they deserve a pay hike). If you want to make higher wage, then you need to provide a higher level of care to the patients that you are responsible for. Gee, have I said that before?

(oh, is tha 500 hours the whole length of the academy, because I do believe that that issue has allready been addressed.)

 

[firecoins]

27+ is much more than I clear as a medic.

you would be making 54 as a medic in NYC. Medics make more than EMTs. Just to keep the facts straight.

 

[firecoins]

Touchy touchy. It's not that they do nothing, it's that they do so little (as evidenced by your inability to give a good medical reason why they deserve a pay hike).

A good medical reason? There aren't enough ambulances. Decreased response time could kill people. Thats seems like good medical reason to me to increase the pay. Hey if you get movers beaticians and garbage men to come work for FDNY, as long as they can pass the physical, they are hired.