New York's Poorest

[Zephyr]

Anyway, as I mentioned before, I'm more worried about the kind of treatment our citizens will be receiving as this shortage gets worse. Just wait till the next MCI...


http://newyorkcityonline.blogspot.com/2008/06/ambulance-emt-staffing-condition-is.html

Wednesday, June 4, 2008
Ambulance EMT Staffing Condition Is Sick

This summer, try not to have a medical emergency. It may be more serious than you can imagine. That’s because there will be a shortage of Emergency Medical Service Technicians in New York City. Many have left for higher paying jobs with the NYFD as firefighters. That information comes from Nicholas Scoppetta, NYFD Fire Commissioner. He still maintains however that his ambulance corps will be able to cope with the shortfall with overtime. Pat Bahnken, president of Local 2507 which represents 2,700 EMT’s believes otherwise. Let’s hope that patients don’t get caught short in this juggling act.

Posted on www.NEWYORKCITYonline.com by: The Big Apple Blogger at 6/04/2008 10:50:00 AM

 

[firecoins]

Yadda, yadda, yadda... It does not mean crap where or what your the service is. EMT pay is crap, for a reason.. too many of them.
R/r 911

FDNY has a shortage of EMT-Bs.

 

[firecoins]

Yadda, yadda, yadda... It does not mean crap where or what your the service is. EMT pay is crap, for a reason.. too many of them. The course is set to a basic science level, and very little is taught more than advanced first aid. Sorry, I don't care if they personally transport or carry 500,000 people, walk through chemicals, or take care of the Pope. The responsibility and the expected training level is the same. Provide immediate care safely enough for ALS to arrive and then to stabilize for transport.

As I said. FDNY has a shortage as in too few.

I really don't have a problem with EMT-Bs JUST knowing advanced first aid. We aren't expecting EMT-Bs to do brain surgery. We don't do cardic catheriztions in then field yet. EMT-Bs in NYC will do just fine for now. Only problem is we don't have enough because the pay is too low. Simple solution, increase the pay. NYPD is having the same problem. Rookie pay is not enough. Guess what, cop shortage. Seems to be a trend in NYC.

 

[Ridryder911]

As I said. FDNY has a shortage as in too few.

I really don't have a problem with EMT-Bs JUST knowing advanced first aid. We aren't expecting EMT-Bs to do brain surgery. We don't do cardic catheriztions in then field yet. EMT-Bs in NYC will do just fine for now. Only problem is we don't have enough because the pay is too low.

You only have a shortage at one place, not that there is true shortage of EMT's. Much difference in statement and truths. Not enough shortage to cause a demand to change the pay or requirements apparently. Just because GM has a shortage of mechanics, does not mean there is a shortage of mechanics.

First, no one ever expected brain surgery, and FYI it is spelled cardiac catheterization (angiogram) . Just don't the expect pay or even a job market for such demands, with the current training you will see the end results.

R/r 911

 

[triemal04]

As I said. FDNY has a shortage as in too few.

I really don't have a problem with EMT-Bs JUST knowing advanced first aid. We aren't expecting EMT-Bs to do brain surgery. We don't do cardic catheriztions in then field yet. EMT-Bs in NYC will do just fine for now. Only problem is we don't have enough because the pay is too low. Simple solution, increase the pay. NYPD is having the same problem. Rookie pay is not enough. Guess what, cop shortage. Seems to be a trend in NYC.

So, are you ever really going to explain why an EMT-B deserves to be paid more money for what (little) they do?

 

[firecoins]

So, are you ever really going to explain why an EMT-B deserves to be paid more money for what (little) they do?

When someone dies because NYC EMS was understaffed you can tell the family how little EMT-Bs do. I don't seem to think they will care.

 

[firecoins]

You only have a shortage at one place, not that there is true shortage of EMT's.

It just so happens Rid, this thread is about that one place. The thread is titled "New York's Poorest". You can start another thread about other places.

Much difference in statement and truths. Not enough shortage to cause a demand to change the pay or requirements apparently.

There is a demand to increase the pay. NYC will end up doing it but as usual, NYC is slow to react to problems. We have been waiting for the FDNY to improve its FD radio system since 1993. Things in NY take time.

First, no one ever expected brain surgery, and FYI it is spelled cardiac catheterization (angiogram) . Just don't the expect pay or even a job market for such demands, with the current training you will see the end results. R/r 911

We will see people trained in advance first aid make typos?

 

[Ridryder911]

When someone dies because NYC EMS was understaffed you can tell the family how little EMT-Bs do. I don't seem to think they will care.

The same question could be asked, if they really cared, would they be understaffed and underpaid? This is not isolated to NYC, but it is a National Trend. The only reason you read about it is because it involves the almighty FDNY. Until the public recognize and realize the need of EMS is an important as Fire Services, Police Enforcement, then nothing will be changed.

In my state alone, we have lost EMS (40 in <7 years) and caused responses up to now almost an hour in length where it was < 15 minutes before loosing their EMS. Do they care? Apparently not. Apparently, the "right" person has not died or been severely injured yet..

Again, until we can prove that we are essential part of public and health services, nothing will change. Along with this we must provide more than "first-aid" education level care, other wise the public is paying more than they get.

R/r 911

 

[Ridryder911]

It just so happens Rid, this thread is about that one place. The thread is titled "New York's Poorest". You can start another thread about other places.

There is a demand to increase the pay. NYC will end up doing it but as usual, NYC is slow to react to problems. We have been waiting for the FDNY to improve its FD radio system since 1993. Things in NY take time.


We will see people trained in advance first aid make typos?

"advanced"....

Point being, again the Coastal line assumes their the only ones. Really, there is land between the two coast lines.

The thread pointed out the poor pay of EMT's in NYC with the FDNY.. so? Like that is news in almost any given town, from anywhere. Actually, it would be easier to point out areas that pay well to those in EMS, now that would be news worthy!

R/r 911

 

[mikeylikesit]

The same question could be asked, if they really cared, would they be understaffed and underpaid? This is not isolated to NYC, but it is a National Trend. The only reason you read about it is because it involves the almighty FDNY. Until the public recognize and realize the need of EMS is an important as Fire Services, Police Enforcement, then nothing will be changed.

In my state alone, we have lost EMS (40 in <7 years) and caused responses up to now almost an hour in length where it was < 15 minutes before loosing their EMS. Do they care? Apparently not. Apparently, the "right" person has not died or been severely injured yet..

Again, until we can prove that we are essential part of public and health services, nothing will change. Along with this we must provide more than "first-aid" education level care, other wise the public is paying more than they get.

R/r 911

Good point, like for instance all the chopper down stories barely make headlines. but if a Fireman gets hurt in the line of duty(not even killed) it makes a National Headline. But the Firefighters have a ton of training whether it be Hazmat FF1 and FF2 plus the academy, police have atleast 60 college credits. the thing that i think is missing is that you don't ever see EMS putting their lives on the line like the PD and Fire do.

 

[firecoins]

The same question could be asked, if they really cared, would they be understaffed and underpaid? This is not isolated to NYC, but it is a National Trend. The only reason you read about it is because it involves the almighty FDNY. Until the public recognize and realize the need of EMS is an important as Fire Services, Police Enforcement, then nothing will be changed.

Agreed. NYC EMS does need to be freed from the FDNY and return to the independant agency pre 1993.

Again, until we can prove that we are essential part of public and health services, nothing will change. Along with this we must provide more than "first-aid" education level care, other wise the public is paying more than they get.
R/r 911

What is it that they should get? Yes I agree the standard needs to be raised but it also needs to be staffed. Medics are also on short supply. They get can easily get their RN and find a job that pays more than double. Retention of EMT-Bs are difficult. Medics are not overflowing.

 

[Ridryder911]

Agreed. NYC EMS does need to be freed from the FDNY and return to the independant agency pre 1993.

What is it that they should get? Yes I agree the standard needs to be raised but it also needs to be staffed. Medics are also on short supply. They get can easily get their RN and find a job that pays more than double. Retention of EMT-Bs are difficult. Medics are not overflowing.

I agree, again the same in NYC as it is any where else. Only we are loosing medics not to only nursing* (which is actually decreasing) but to Fire Services, and now to medical sales.


* Ironically, I had a Paramedic apply for a job. He had just finished his RN and found out he made more than a new RN graduate does. As well, most hospitals now here require one year full time as a RN before they will hire you for part time. EMS does not usually count for experience.

R/r 911

 

[triemal04]

When someone dies because NYC EMS was understaffed you can tell the family how little EMT-Bs do. I don't seem to think they will care.

So that would be a no then.

You keep falling back on your same arguements without bringing anything new to the table. Sad. You need to realize that part of the reason EMT-B's don't get paid much is because, in this line of work, they aren't worth much.

Like I said before: EMT-B's belong to the MEDICAL field. Until they increase the MEDICAL care they give to their patients, why do they deserve an increase in pay? If all they can provide is the most basic, minimum MEDICAL care, why should they get paid more when they aren't providing quality MEDICAL care?

Seriously, the more you can't justify why they are there, the more I think just switching to a large moving company to run the BLS ambulances in NYC is approriate; train them in CPR and how to use and AED and you're almost at the same level as a Basic. And they allready know how to drive large vehicles and carry heavy objects.

And they make more money.

 

[firecoins]

Seriously, the more you can't justify why they are there, the more I think just switching to a large moving company to run the BLS ambulances in NYC is approriate; train them in CPR and how to use and AED and you're almost at the same level as a Basic. And they allready know how to drive large vehicles and carry heavy objects.

.

Can justify NYC being understaffed? Seriously when can the movers start. NYC deserves a fully staffed BLS division. EMTs handles the B.S. jobs in NYC and there are tons. The B.S. jobs....the ones where no medical treatment on scene is required. Yeah most calls. This frees up the ALS trucks to do the calls that require on scene medical treatment. Since you don't work here your relying on the meaningless ALS versus BLS argument. EMTs-Bs deserve to make as much if not more than the movers. Of course you probably think NYC should remain understaffed.

 

[firecoins]

NYC BLS only do a very high call volume while only doing advanced first aid on scene and the deserve get paid a livable wage for this. They get paid for this work.

Paramedics do fewer calls and perform ALS on scene IF needed and they deserve to get paid a livable yet higher wage for this.

It is a high call volume system with mandatory OT. You can only do so much before transport is necessary.

You want to Monday Night Quaterback the BLS crews, there are plenty of supervisor positions open.

 

[triemal04]

.

Can justify NYC being understaffed? Seriously when can the movers start. NYC deserves a fully staffed BLS division. EMTs handles the B.S. jobs in NYC and there are tons. The B.S. jobs....the ones where no medical treatment on scene is required. Yeah most calls. This frees up the ALS trucks to do the calls that require on scene medical treatment. Since you don't work here your relying on the meaningless ALS versus BLS argument. EMTs-Bs deserve to make as much if not more than the movers. Of course you probably think NYC should remain understaffed.

Agreed, NYC does deserve to have a fully staffed EMS division, and if the only way it can be run is with BLS ambulances, then they should have enough there. But that's not the issue here. This doesn't have much to do with an ALS vs BLS arguement; it's simple facts; EMT-B's don't treat anything; you've said that yourself. So why should they be making more money? (how much more? got a figure in mind?)

NYC BLS only do a very high call volume while only doing advanced first aid on scene and the deserve get paid a livable wage for this. They get paid for this work.
Paramedics do fewer calls and perform ALS on scene IF needed and they deserve to get paid a livable yet higher wage for this.
It is a high call volume system with mandatory OT. You can only do so much before transport is necessary.
You want to Monday Night Quaterback the BLS crews, there are plenty of supervisor positions open.

Why should someone in the MEDICAL field deserve to get paid a great salary if they aren't doing anything MEDICAL for their patients? This is the question I've asked over and over, and you can't seem to answer. So they work a lot...so does the counter guy at McDonald's. Should he be making more than he is right now? I mean, Mickey D's can't function without the slob taking your order, so by your reasoning, they should be making more money too.

This has nothing to do with Mondy morning quarterbacking (nice deflection from the actuall issue though), this has to do with your inability to explain why an EMT-B deserves to make more money than the average EMT-B in the US (when they really allready do) when they aren't helping their pt's anymore than the average EMT-B, if at all.

If this bothers you so much, why aren't you advocating that every EMT-B in every city, town, county, and burg make more money? After all, each is doing the same job.

 

[firecoins]

So why should they be making more money? (how much more? got a figure in mind?)

Becuase they are understaffed. They don't pay enough to fill the position.

Why should someone in the MEDICAL field deserve to get paid a great salary if they aren't doing anything MEDICAL for their patients? doing the same job.

No one is making a great salary. $27000 in NY doesn't get you your own apartment. You might be able to live with your parents or rent a room in someone elses's apartment. If you think thats a great salary, your more than welcome to apply.

 

[CFRBryan347768]

If this bothers you so much, why aren't you advocating that every EMT-B in every city, town, county, and burg make more money? After all, each is doing the same job.

It seems that in every city,town,county, and burg all EMT-B's get paid the same ballpark amount. Well why not be the first to up the standards?

 

[triemal04]

It seems that in every city,town,county, and burg all EMT-B's get paid the same ballpark amount. Well why not be the first to up the standards?

But why? This is the question that firecoins refuses, and/or is unable to answer; why should an EMT-B be paid more when all they are doing is acting as a taxi or moving van for someone? If it's due to the work load, look at my analogy of the McDonald's employee.

Obviously, 27K isn't enough to live on in NYC; it's hard to live on that much anywhere. But what makes an EMT-B deserve to be paid more? It can't be the care they give to their patients, because that's minimal to non-existent.

 

[Jon]

Ok triemal... I understand what you are saying... but by that logic, I guess it would be good to know how the NYC EMT's take home pay compare with a NYC cabbie working similar hours? I don't even know where to look.