Need a debate, heres one.

[CAOX3]

I think she'd make a better impression if she was adult enough in the situation to just suck it up.

Adult enough to be diciplined for something she didnt have the obligation to do. Interesting stance.

I dont just suck things up, thats what I pay union dues for.

Sucking it up would insinuate that she did something wrong, which she didn't.

 

[Ms.Medic]

I think she'd make a better impression if she was adult enough in the situation to just suck it up.

Why, if EMTs are not expected to use monitors, is there one on her basic truck?

Did they want a rhythm strip or a whole 12 lead?

Dear miss sasha, I think you need to read the facts again, you obviously are missing what the original thread said. Do you even know the difference in a lp11 and lp12, and if you do, then why would you post a response like that ??? And dont say I need to be an adult and suck it up, to someone elses response. I think you should go back and read ALL of my responses before you say the things you've been saying, and if you dont want to give advice, but rather just get on to say how lazy, hostile, and immature people are, maybe you should do it somewhere else.

 

[Sasha]

No, I don't really know the difference. I don't really care. My old service used LP10s. The services I do ride times on uses LP12s. If I felt you were doing anything more than whining, I'd have the motivation to go look up a LP11, but I don't.

you dont want to give advice, but rather just get on to say how lazy, hostile, and immature people are, maybe you should do it somewhere else.

I've given my advice. Suck it up, move on, let it go. It was two weeks ago.

 

[Ms.Medic]

No, I don't really know the difference. I don't really care. My old service used LP10s. The services I do ride times on uses LP12s. If I felt you were doing anything more than whining, I'd have the motivation to go look up a LP11, but I don't.



I've given my advice. Suck it up, move on, let it go. It was two weeks ago.

Instead of using your energy to call everyone else lazy and lacking initiative, use it to quit being lazy yourself, and find out the differences before you want to say something about the topic. You should have the motivation yourself to find out about the equipment that you are able to use. AND FYI: Im not whinning about the fact that I was written up, although I dont think it was fair, its not THAT big of deal, I posted the thread to find out what others would have done, and why ? Thats the whole reason for a site like this, to discuss things we have questions about.

 

[Ridryder911]

Hmmm...does anyone else see the irony here?

Some of the same people that are saying the OP should have run the strip just because she's trained to do it regardless of the fact it is outside her current scope of practice are the same ones that said a medic shouldn't wear a paramedic patch while working as a non-medic. :wacko:

There is a BIG difference from performing tasks such as preparing patients for an IV, even obtaining an ECG and wearing false identification. Hel* even people off the street can be taught upon how to be an ECG tech. Although it is important to place & perform them properly, it is really a no brainer to be able to do a simplistic task.

No one was recommending her to introduce or perform an intervention(s) that she did not have knowledge in. If a new graduate Paramedic does not know how to perform an ECG or recognize unstable rhythms; they have a problem!

No, I would have not written her up. Maybe, wash a few more ambulances and more in-services on how to orchestrate a call and definitely would consider their orientation time to be longer until proven otherwise.

Again, it was probably a simple test to see how well she could handle it. Guess what?

R/r 911

 

[Sasha]

You should have the motivation yourself to find out about the equipment that you are able to use

I know about the equipment I'm able to use. I have access to a LP12 and a LP10. I know how to do pretty much everything on them. Even in class we use 12s. I've never ever heard of an 11. And that is a very small detail, I've read and reread your responses, maybe I have missed it but you have yet to point out why you have a monitor on your truck but you aren't supposed to use them.

And when people post what they would do and why, you get all defensive. Not everyone is going to agree with you and you can't go around fighting everyone who doesn't.

What did you do on scene while waiting for Medics? To me it seems that you weren't thinking about your patient's benefit or making life easy on the responding paramedic, you were just thinking about how other people might think you're dumb.

Stop. Start being a patient advocate.

I'm almost done with Paramedic school, but if I was out on a basic truck (Which is only IFT here, we have 100% ALS 911 response.) and I had a monitor, I would have run the strips for the responding paramedics, if nothing else but to make their life a little easier.

And just for a side note, the EMTs where I do my ride times with are expected to hook the patient up to a 3 lead and also run a 12 lead to help the medics get a little ahead of the game.

 

[Ms.Medic]

I know about the equipment I'm able to use. I have access to a LP12 and a LP10. I know how to do pretty much everything on them. Even in class we use 12s. I've never ever heard of an 11. And that is a very small detail, I've read and reread your responses, maybe I have missed it but you have yet to point out why you have a monitor on your truck but you aren't supposed to use them.

And when people post what they would do and why, you get all defensive. Not everyone is going to agree with you and you can't go around fighting everyone who doesn't.

What did you do on scene while waiting for Medics? To me it seems that you weren't thinking about your patient's benefit or making life easy on the responding paramedic, you were just thinking about how other people might think you're dumb.

Stop. Start being a patient advocate.

I'm almost done with Paramedic school, but if I was out on a basic truck (Which is only IFT here, we have 100% ALS 911 response.) and I had a monitor, I would have run the strips for the responding paramedics, if nothing else but to make their life a little easier.

And just for a side note, the EMTs where I do my ride times with are expected to hook the patient up to a 3 lead and also run a 12 lead to help the medics get a little ahead of the game.

I was on a back up truck that day, which only had a lp11, which I said in the op. A lp11 only does 3/12 leads. No bp, no pulse ox, no aed. I would rather take in the equipment that I can use to do the skills that I am certified for ie: aed, cpap, o2 bag/trauma bag. By the time I get all of my stuff done, and pt loaded up, hopefully the medic would be there, and then I would have no problem placing leads and running a strip for them while they are there and looking over all the info I have gotten for them. And the statement with the nurses being there and looking at me like "what are you going to do" refers to the fact that if there is something shown on the monitor that needs to be dealt with right away, and I am unable to, wouldnt that look worse, and more than likely I would have more complaints about the fact that I see something and Im not doing anything about it, not me "looking dumb". And I have asked you repeatedly to show me where I have gotten "deffensive or hostile" for someone telling me what they would do, but you cant.

 

[Sasha]

was on a back up truck that day, which only had a lp11, which I said in the op. A lp11 only does 3/12 leads. No bp, no pulse ox, no aed.

So you only use a monitor for the BP and pulse ox? You don't take your own, manual BP if you have an auto? Why couldn't you have run the rhythm strip for your responding medic?

And the statement with the nurses being there and looking at me like "what are you going to do" refers to the fact that if there is something shown on the monitor that needs to be dealt with right away, and I am unable to, wouldnt that look worse, and more than likely I would have more complaints about the fact that I see something and Im not doing anything about it, not me "looking dumb".

To me, it would look like you're being a patient advocate, taking the initiative to get your patient better care by alerting the responding medics what's up. If they inquire, simply tell them you're helping your medic get set up, but you don't have the resources or ability to treat them but now that you know what's going on, you can relay it to your medic so your medic can start thinking about his or her treatment before they make patient contact. If it was something that needed to be dealt with right away then the patient and the medic would benefit because YOU got a strip for them, you started to think outside of the "I'm still just a basic" box and started to think about the patient's possible needs. But you didn't. You dropped the ball.

What did you do on scene after you obtained a set of vitals?

 

[CAOX3]

Oh my god.

 

[Ms.Medic]

So you only use a monitor for the BP and pulse ox? You don't take your own, manual BP if you have an auto?




What did you do on scene after you obtained a set of vitals? Sit there? That looks worse.

I was giving you the differences sweetie, and manual bp ??? That would be in the trauma/o2 bag I took in. As a basic in our service, thats all we can use a lp12 for (aed, pulse ox, bp, hr). And as far as what else I do on scene. Well, when we transport from a doctors office to a hospital, theres paperwork to get (and 9x outta 10 they dont have it ready when they call), theres orders to write down from the doctor, theres history to get, theres meds to get, and sometimes just loading a pt and all their belongings onto the stretcher can take a few min. So no, i dont just sit there and twirl my hair.

 

[Ms.Medic]

Oh my god.

Thats just what I was thinking about now,,,LOL.

 

[JPINFV]

Holy catfight.


/stupid Real Housewives of NY commericals on Bravo.

 

[sir.shocksalot]

Holy catfight.


/stupid Real Housewives of NY commericals on Bravo.

Yeah I am starting to notice that people on these forums can get a little ridiculous. Its not like someone died or something.

 

[AJ Hidell]

Sure you could of took the initiative and ran the strip. You didnt and you dont have an obligation to. <snip>

If you put it on as an EMT wich you are and were written up. The people on here would have lambasted you for it stating you dont have the education.

I'm really not sure how you guys are missing such key points here. It appears to be a case of replying to a thread that you haven't bothered to read.

1. It is NOT outside of her scope of practice. Unless you are intimately familiar with Texas EMS, any statement on this matter is speculation with zero basis in fact. EMTs have been running EKGs since EKGs first hit the field in the mid 1970s. They did so in Washington State too, for that matter.

2. She DID have the education necessary to do it. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that she had that training before she even started paramedic school, because EMTs running EKGs for their partners is standard procedure in most of Texas.

3. She DID have an obligation to do it. The paramedic was responding solo. That makes Ms. Medic his partner. This is exactly what an EMT partner is for. If not, what good is s/he except to drive the ambulance? Is that all an EMT is good for these days?

I'm not sure why she froze up on this run. Maybe she just had a brain fart and wasn't thinking right. Maybe she thought, "oh, it's just a nursing home patient, not a real patient." Maybe she thought, "oh, the medic will be here any second. I'll just wait and let him do it," like the health club who failed to apply the AED. Or maybe, as I suspect her supervisor believes, she is being too timid to take aggressive initiative to be an advocate for her patients and an asset to her partner. No matter which one of these explanations is the correct one, it is a legitimate matter of concern for her supervisors to address. In fact, they would be remiss if they did not.

Some of the same people that are saying the OP should have run the strip just because she's trained to do it regardless of the fact it is outside her current scope of practice are the same ones that said a medic shouldn't wear a paramedic patch while working as a non-medic.

What I find ironic is that some of the same people whining that it was not her responsibility are those who would normally be whining because they were not being allowed to have more skills. It works both ways.

 

[CAOX3]

Ok im really confused about this whole conversation.

If it is in fact their practise to carry and place the 12 lead then yes she should have.

I thought my system was screwed up.

At least we both show up in the same truck.

 

[Veneficus]

Not commenting to anyone specific, I think individual concerns have been well addressed. I would just like to add some thoughts.

EMS is full to the brim of people just doing the minimum or waiting to pass responsibility off to somebody else. If EMS providers want respect, they need to focus on doing the maximum they “can do” not making excuses about how they are only required to do the minimum.

It doesn’t matter if it was a nursing home patient, a drunken illegal immigrant, a prisoner, or the president, all patients should get the best care you can possibly bring to bear.

Back to basics: EMT’s of all levels are supposed to be experts at Prehospital medicine, AKA austere environments. If you rely on the Star Trek device that scans the whole patient and tells you what is wrong, and can’t perform an assessment without it. You are not an expert, a professional, or even useful.
We argue a lot here about education and skills and crap. Check out these skills a basic should be able to perform: A physical assessment including lung and heart sounds, a full set of vital signs (including temperature, excluding SPo2) palpation and percussion of various structures, a history more thorough than SAMPLE, and the ability to best position the patient to benefit from the next level of care. Come to think about it, there is not 1 healthcare provider that shouldn’t have these skills. Mastery of these skills will help more patients than all the epi, ET tubes, albuterol, and EKGs combined.

 

[JPINFV]

EMS is full to the brim of people just doing the minimum or waiting to pass responsibility off to somebody else.

You mean like every time someone says to 'just call medical control' when it isn't required, like in AMA refusals?

 

[BossyCow]

Now when I hear hoofbeats I generally think horses instead of zebras.

Is it possible, that your supervisor was simply getting a bit previous? If you are in the process of changing from an EMT-B to an EMT-P, the supervisor may have simply been reacting to a history of seeing employees in that same situation who take a backseat role on a call because they are used to being told what to do? She may have been trying to remind you that its time to start seeing you in more of a command situation because of your increased training and soon to be certification.

I understand that this simple straightforward, common sense look at the situation does little to add to the "Horrible state of EMS education in the world today" debate or the great "ALS vs BLS" wars.. but it might just explain things.

 

[AJ Hidell]

Twenty years ago, it was easier to argue that an EMT should not be running an EKG. Back then, they did not administer injectable medications, give NTG, epi, albuterol, or defibrillate. But now, in the twenty-first century, when EMTs are being given more and more ALS responsibilities as a part of their basic training, it is simply impossible to argue that an EMT partnered with a paramedic should not be attaching those electrodes. Especially when it is well within their legal scope.

 

[JPINFV]

But now, in the twenty-first century, when EMTs are being given more and more ALS responsibilities as a part of their basic training, it is simply impossible to argue that an EMT partnered with a paramedic should not be attaching those electrodes.

To be fair, once during an RN level CCT (staffing was 2 EMT-Bs and a RN) I had my EMT-B partner tell me that I shouldn't hook up the patient to the monitor because I "might shock the patient" through the electrodes. The truly sad part was that he had more EMT-B experience than I had.