Need a debate, heres one.

[AJ Hidell]

Why the heck do you seem so hostile about the situation toward me, I NEVER said emts save paramedics, so get off your hype about that...

I apologize for being unclear about that. I was not addressing you with that last paragraph. I was addressing all the EMTs here that are arguing that it isn't their job to assist the paramedic and the patient. Again, sorry if you took that as being aimed at you.

 

[triemal04]

Ms. Medic, legal definitions are not relevant to this scenario. Anyone is legally able to attach an EKG in Texas. Whether or not you actually do it is a matter of local policy. Your management writing you up for not doing it is a pretty clear sign that they consider it policy, is it not? End of story. You failed a test of your initiative and confidence. That will probably end up setting you back from being cut loose as a solo medic after graduation.

But, from what she has said, her supe wrote her up, not because she, as an EMT did not put the leads on, but because she, as an EMT who has gone through medic school didn't. If it was the former, and the companies policy was to have an EMT run a strip even if they couldn't interpret it, then it's a non-issue; she'd be in the wrong. But from what's been said it's the latter, and the policy is being changed soley for her. Not so ok with that. Extra knowledge or not, she is still only an EMT; she has no more of a role now than she did before going through paramedic school.

 

[AJ Hidell]

Correct. And I have acknowledged from the beginning that the company is negligent for having unclear policy and for applying inconsistent discipline, have I not?

 

[Ms.Medic]

I completely agree that an emt should assist the paramedic, Im constantly having IVs, intubation equipment, meds drawn up, and leads placed on the pts, and equipment assembled, at their side, before my paramedic even has to ask for it, all they have to ever do when I work with them, is look over and grab what they need, shoot sometimes Im nice and even hand it to them, LOL,,,,,WHILE THEY ARE THERE !!! In this situation, there was no paramedic, and I was written up for it not being done, and I dont think that I should have been written up for something like that. I have plenty of initiative, and confidence, but if I have a question whether I can do something or not as it comes up, Id rather error on the side of my patch.

 

[triemal04]

I completely agree that an emt should assist the paramedic, Im constantly having IVs, intubation equipment, meds drawn up, and leads placed on the pts, and equipment assembled, at their side, before my paramedic even has to ask for it, all they have to ever do when I work with them, is look over and grab what they need, shoot sometimes Im nice and even hand it to them, LOL,,,,,WHILE THEY ARE THERE !!! In this situation, there was no paramedic, and I was written up for it not being done, and I dont think that I should have been written up for something like that. I have plenty of initiative, and confidence, but if I have a question whether I can do something or not as it comes up, Id rather error on the side of my patch.

Unless your company expects ALL EMT's to run a strip if a medic is not there then you shoud not have been written up. GO TALK WITH YOUR SUPE. Get this taken care of now, especially if you plan on staying with this company.

AJ: I don't get it. If you agree with that and feel that way, how can you be ok with her being written up? Seems contradictory.

 

[sir.shocksalot]

I completely agree that an emt should assist the paramedic, Im constantly having IVs, intubation equipment, meds drawn up, and leads placed on the pts, and equipment assembled, at their side, before my paramedic even has to ask for it, all they have to ever do when I work with them, is look over and grab what they need, shoot sometimes Im nice and even hand it to them, LOL,,,,,WHILE THEY ARE THERE !!! In this situation, there was no paramedic, and I was written up for it not being done, and I dont think that I should have been written up for something like that. I have plenty of initiative, and confidence, but if I have a question whether I can do something or not as it comes up, Id rather error on the side of my patch.

In this world of liability and lawyers, I would have left the monitor behind as well. If ECGs aren't mentioned anywhere in your protocols as a basic then the monitor stays in the truck until the certified paramedic shows up.

 

[AJ Hidell]

AJ: I don't get it. If you agree with that and feel that way, how can you be ok with her being written up? Seems contradictory.

:huh:

Perhaps you jumped into this discussion without reading all of the previous posts. I established from the very beginning that I did not agree with her being written up. There should be no need for me to repeat everything I have previously said in each successive post.

 

[reaper]

I'm going to have to disagree with everyone else here. While I may be trained and knowledgeable in how to assist a Paramedic/ALS unit, I would be roasted if I were to hook up an EKG to a patient. Our Paramedics would sometimes be downgraded to BLS units due to short staffing of Paramedics, and while they had all of the goodies of the ALS trucks, they still operated within the BLS scope of practice.

Heck, our Paramedics operating as first responders, with all of their ALS gear in a SUV, couldn't switch the button on their LifePak 12s to manual mode until another Paramedic arrived and they are officially an ALS unit. Those units operate and function as BLS units until another ALS unit arrives on scene. Sure, they have the advantage of having the ALS gear (LifePak 12, advanced airway, etc) set up and ready to go when ALS arrives, but it sure isn't used until the unit is upgraded to ALS.

What I or anyone else says really doesn't matter though, and I think it's time you sit down with your supervisor and talk this one out.

Matt,

Could explain this further? I can not figure this out.

How are medics downgraded to BLS, because of medic shortage? If a medic is on the truck, then it should be ALS.

Medics as first responders in an SUV should make not difference in upgrading a call. They are ALS on scene, with ALS equipment.

I would like to know more about this system and why they run it this way. If you do not want to respond here, you can PM me. I want to know this for my own knowledge.

 

[MMiz]

Matt,

Could explain this further? I can not figure this out.

How are medics downgraded to BLS, because of medic shortage? If a medic is on the truck, then it should be ALS.

Medics as first responders in an SUV should make not difference in upgrading a call. They are ALS on scene, with ALS equipment.

I would like to know more about this system and why they run it this way. If you do not want to respond here, you can PM me. I want to know this for my own knowledge.

The county I worked in required two EMT-Paramedics to be considered ALS and administer ALS care. EMT/Paramedic or Intermediate/Medic would be labeled a BLS unit, and the same went for a Paramedic "echo car" unfortunately.

 

[reaper]

Ok, Thanks.

Sounds like they did not have pt care in mind, with their policies?

 

[Ms.Medic]

Matt,

Could explain this further? I can not figure this out.

How are medics downgraded to BLS, because of medic shortage? If a medic is on the truck, then it should be ALS.

Medics as first responders in an SUV should make not difference in upgrading a call. They are ALS on scene, with ALS equipment.

I would like to know more about this system and why they run it this way. If you do not want to respond here, you can PM me. I want to know this for my own knowledge.

Im curious too......

 

[MMiz]

Ok, Thanks.

Sounds like they did not have pt care in mind, with their policies?

I think they thought exactly the opposite. A wealthy suburban county with no shortage of ALS providers would ensure two qualified Paramedics showed up to every call.

The private service I worked for was required to provide a five minute ALS response 90% of the time, and the average response time of our Paramedic First Response vehicles was three minutes, with our ALS response time being only twenty seconds more. The city we contracted with was guaranteed three Paramedics on each call. Not too shabby.

I know that if I was in cardiac arrest I'd want someone with an AED only three minutes away.

 

[reaper]

Yes, that is the whole concept of the "QRV". To be able to have a Medic on scene as soon as possible.

If I was seriously sick or injured, I would be glad to have one medic on scene that could provide Advanced treatments.

That is why I can not see that they have pt care in mind with that policy.

 

[Ridryder911]

I agree with AJ. Although technically, she is NOT a Paramedic, with her being so close to wanting to be one; it was assuming that she would want to start experience by assessing and maybe "hooking the patient" up to the monitor. No not interpreting but as she described a another unit was on the way.

Do you not set up an IV or spike a bag for an arriving ALS unit? ER and EKG tech's. attach ECG's all the time and no they don't interpret them.

Personally, (no offense) but you blew it. I gave you a chance to demonstrate your confidence and aggressiveness in care. Even if there were ALS trained nursing staff, you are not determining the rhythm just preparing the patient for further care. Now, I would question your ability to manage a situation without being by the book or worrying about your "scope of care"; which is not as bad as the "cowboy medicine" and going over board. Not that you are wrong, but very apparent that you will be timid.

Yes, know your limits but also know that there are some things that are not going to endanger the patient.

R/r 911

 

[Ms.Medic]

I agree with AJ. Although technically, she is NOT a Paramedic, with her being so close to wanting to be one; it was assuming that she would want to start experience by assessing and maybe "hooking the patient" up to the monitor. No not interpreting but as she described a another unit was on the way.

Do you not set up an IV or spike a bag for an arriving ALS unit? ER and EKG tech's. attach ECG's all the time and no they don't interpret them.

Personally, (no offense) but you blew it. I gave you a chance to demonstrate your confidence and aggressiveness in care. Even if there were ALS trained nursing staff, you are not determining the rhythm just preparing the patient for further care. Now, I would question your ability to manage a situation without being by the book or worrying about your "scope of care"; which is not as bad as the "cowboy medicine" and going over board. Not that you are wrong, but very apparent that you will be timid.

Yes, know your limits but also know that there are some things that are not going to endanger the patient.

R/r 911

What, exactly was "blown" ?

 

[AJ Hidell]

Ms.Medic, it has been explained multiple times over the last four pages. If you intend to remain unwilling to even consider looking at it from any viewpoint other than your own, then it is not possible for you to ever achieve any enlightenment here, no matter how many times the points are repeated. There is nothing further to be gained by asking us to repeat ourselves.

 

[Ms.Medic]

Ms.Medic, it has been explained multiple times over the last four pages. If you intend to remain unwilling to even consider looking at it from any viewpoint other than your own, then it is not possible for you to ever achieve any enlightenment here, no matter how many times the points are repeated. There is nothing further to be gained by asking us to repeat ourselves.

I have in no way, not looked at it in any other way, how in the world do you figure, whats the point of posting if thats the case? And I dont remember ever asking you, or anyone else to repeat yourself... I get what people are saying on here, very clear in most cases, and the ones that are not, I ask about them. Isnt that what this whole site is about ??? If your tired of this thread and it frustrates you, dont read it anymore. Its simple.

 

[AJ Hidell]

I have in no way, not looked at it in any other way, how in the world do you figure, whats the point of posting if thats the case?

It is my guess that you came here expecting everyone to rally around, pat you on the back, and tell you how right you were. Now that a couple of us are instead choosing to tell you what we honestly think, you are not so happy about it.

And I dont remember ever asking you, or anyone else to repeat yourself...

That is exactly what you did. After multiple posts telling you what you "blew", you now ask "What exactly was blown?". A repeat by any other name is still a repeat.

I get what people are saying on here, very clear in most cases, and the ones that are not, I ask about them. Isnt that what this whole site is about ???

Far be it for me to speak for the administrators of this forum, but I would hope that it is about honest and open communications, and telling people what they need to hear, instead of just what they want to hear. At least, that is what I hope.

If your tired of this thread and it frustrates you, dont read it anymore. Its simple.

In other words, if I'm not going to tell you what you want to hear, butt out? No problem.

 

[Sasha]

It does NOT state anywhere in there that emts can or should if they know how, place leads or run strips. Of course I know how, but theres soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many legal issues with medics these days, I dont want to risk my future patch, or current job for anything foolish.

Oh yes... You're going to get sued for placing non-invasive painless electrodes on a patient and connecting wires.

Son of a biscuit, how horrible for them to expect you to do a little work, knowing that you know how to do it.

All they wanted was a strip, they weren't asking you to vagal the patient down if they were tachy or anything. You were helping the responding medic get ahead of the game a little bit. Was this patient stable or unstable? Maybe they wanted a baseline strip to see which way the patient was going. If you have them on your truck, then you should use them.

". Now, I can completely see me doing this while they are there in front of me, but what if something was to show up on the monitor that was treatable, and the lvns/Rns are standing there looking at me like, "what are you going to do".

Why is everyone so afraid of looking stupid? If they look at you funny, well then just explain you're helping out your medic but you're not able to treat.

It sounds to me like you were just being lazy by not brining and using your LP.

And this happened two weeks ago, let it go. It makes you look bitter to keep bringing it up.

 

[Ms.Medic]

AJ-HAHA, looks like you like the drama around here huh. I'll let you have the last word, its pretty much whatever to me. But just FYI, When I asked what was "blown", I was refering to the last post by another member when I didnt get what he was talking about,,,GOD FORBID WE HAVE A CONFUSION ON HERE. And I have never gotten offended, or upset because a member told me how they felt. Looks like your the one that gets all emotional about these post. Respond back to this so you can have the last word, and Take care.