Middle School EMS Club Advice Thread

[Chimpie]

Are you actually serious? 12-year-olds? That's a joke. A 12-year-old shouldn't touch an AED, yet alone preform CPR on anyone. They can't handle the mental stress of CPR. They also don't have the strength to handle compressons on an adult.

Really lady it's a bad idea. I'd soon rather die then allow a 12-year-old to do cpr on me or a family member.

Most 12-years-old can't go to the movies alone, therefore they shouldn't be allowed to do anything like that.

Several times a year we have a "Babysitters Boot Camp". Most of the students are between 11 and 14. Every single one learns Adult, Child and Infant CPR, AED and First Aid. Sure we have one or two a class that are too giggily and have a hard time taking it seriously, but the majority of them do just fine.

Also, remember, just by teaching them something doesn't mean that he has to certify them in it. It can be just a demonstration or going over the skills, just like letting the kids play with the booster line off of an engine. Just because they are spraying water doesn't make them a firefighter.

 

[MMiz]

Are you actually serious? 12-year-olds? That's a joke. A 12-year-old shouldn't touch an AED, yet alone preform CPR on anyone. They can't handle the mental stress of CPR. They also don't have the strength to handle compressons on an adult.

Really lady it's a bad idea. I'd soon rather die then allow a 12-year-old to do cpr on me or a family member.

Most 12-years-old can't go to the movies alone, therefore they shouldn't be allowed to do anything like that.

Welcome to the forum!

If I'm the lady you're referring to, maybe I should start by pointing out I'm a guy.

If a 12 year old is doing CPR on you, then chances are you're already dead. Why not let them, possibly the most highly trained person, try to do something?

Some of my students are far too immature to do CPR. Others I think could handle it fine. I can still remember the mental stress from participating in my first code, and I didn't even do CPR! Most of these students will never do CPR, but I believe it is never too young to teach them. My high school taught CPR to all 14 year olds, am I'm confident my 12 year olds could handle it too!

As a teacher I want to empower my students. Whether it be providing the tools they need in their academic or personal lives, I feel it's important that I provide my students the opportunity to learn and take action. I'm struggling with the idea of giving the students a $2000 radio for communication, but besides that I really think this idea will work.

What do you feel 12 year olds are really capable of? Maybe we can work from there

 

[CaptainPanic]

Also may I throw in that there was a study done that most children did CPR better and more correctly than the adults did. Guess its because children dont think- they just do it.

This was discussed here a while back I think but not sure.

-CP

 

[TTLWHKR]

Really lady it's a bad idea. I'd soon rather die then allow a 12-year-old to do cpr on me or a family member.

What are fricken you nuts or something? I surely hope you aren't in EMS, b/c you have a poor outlook, IMO.

No, don't do cpr on your younger brother who just drown in the pool, or your grandmother who just dropped with a heart attack, let them lay there and die.. What is going to be more mentally trying?
Knowing you did nothing, or that you did all you could?

 

[ffemt8978]

I'd soon rather die then allow a 12-year-old to do cpr on me or a family member.
.

YOU WOULD DIE ...if a 12yo didn't perform CPR or use an AED on you and they were the only ones around.

The American Heart Association has a program called CPR in the Classroom that is specifically designed for the middle school aged children, and it teaches them how to do all the steps of CPR correctly, including the use of an AED.

 

[Jon]

Training the kids in CPR/First aid - good idea... I totally forgot about the CPR in the Classroom course.... great idea!

As for using middle school students as first responders - I'm not a fan of this idea.

At the high school level, having 16/17 year olds, espicially with EMT, acting as first responders isn't a bad idea. I draw the line at "what age can you ride on an ambulance."

So... teaching them first aid and CPR so they can help a teacher/principal/lunchlady who codes in front of them.... good. Having them respond to Shortness of breath, chest pain, and FDGB's on the playground - BAD.


Jon

 

[Wingnut]

Training the kids in CPR/First aid - good idea... I totally forgot about the CPR in the Classroom course.... great idea!

As for using middle school students as first responders - I'm not a fan of this idea.

At the high school level, having 16/17 year olds, espicially with EMT, acting as first responders isn't a bad idea. I draw the line at "what age can you ride on an ambulance."

So... teaching them first aid and CPR so they can help a teacher/principal/lunchlady who codes in front of them.... good. Having them respond to Shortness of breath, chest pain, and FDGB's on the playground - BAD.


Jon

I hope my post wasn't mis-read....I'm 100% with Jon...maybe he just said it better. I have already taught my kids cpr and they are 3 & 5, I don't expect them to save a life but I expect them to feel more comfortable knowing that mommy taught them to expect this and what should be done when it happens.
I don't think anyone is too young to learn cpr, there's more to knowing it than chest compressions and ventilations. The only thing I disagree with is Expecting a 10 year old to standby at an event and be the first responder. But then again if I think it's ok for them to help a code that happens right in front of them if they are the only person trained in cpr, then I'm being a hypocrit.
I don't know maybe it's not such a bad idea after all.

MMiz, I think what your best bet would be is to get to know the kids and make certain judgments by that.

 

[emtbuff]

I agree that theses kids should be taught CPR we teach CPR to the high school students al though they could really care less. We have talked about switching over to the middle school kids. You know the kids and you will know there personallity and maturity level and what is best for them.

 

[Wingnut]

Hey Mmiz, you know your sessy in a dress, it's ok, open up to us...be free!^_^ B)

 

[Jon]

I just spit my tea out on the keyboard ROTFLMFAO :lol: :lol: :lol: :blush: :lol:

 

[MMiz]

Hey Mmiz, you know your sessy in a dress, it's ok, open up to us...be free!^_^ B)

LOLOLOL. Where did that come from?

 

[MMiz]

Training the kids in CPR/First aid - good idea... I totally forgot about the CPR in the Classroom course.... great idea!

As for using middle school students as first responders - I'm not a fan of this idea.

At the high school level, having 16/17 year olds, espicially with EMT, acting as first responders isn't a bad idea. I draw the line at "what age can you ride on an ambulance."

So... teaching them first aid and CPR so they can help a teacher/principal/lunchlady who codes in front of them.... good. Having them respond to Shortness of breath, chest pain, and FDGB's on the playground - BAD.

Jon

Jon,

I agree with you on a lot of what you've said. Here's my thought process, let me know where I'm going wrong.

Our EMS club is 20 people. Each school day 4 students come in early and grab cheap FRS radios. One of those students also grabs an 800 MHz that connects to EMS dispatch.

I'd have them sign up to "stand by" at sporting events and such.

The chances of them ever using their skills in school I see as almost being zero. First, they'd have to be dispatched to the call. What are the chances a admin or secretary would have a call they couldn't handle? If at a sporting event or stand by, I would require that they actually have to be asked to assist with a call on an injured player or such. If a guy passed out in the stands, that's a different story.

I see this club as being more about the process than the skill. This is a really weird age for many of these students, and I think many would like the responsibility and feeling of empowerment.

What do you think?

 

[Jon]

Jon,

I agree with you on a lot of what you've said. Here's my thought process, let me know where I'm going wrong.

Our EMS club is 20 people. Each school day 4 students come in early and grab cheap FRS radios. One of those students also grabs an 800 MHz that connects to EMS dispatch.

I'd have them sign up to "stand by" at sporting events and such.

The chances of them ever using their skills in school I see as almost being zero. First, they'd have to be dispatched to the call. What are the chances a admin or secretary would have a call they couldn't handle? If at a sporting event or stand by, I would require that they actually have to be asked to assist with a call on an injured player or such. If a guy passed out in the stands, that's a different story.

I see this club as being more about the process than the skill. This is a really weird age for many of these students, and I think many would like the responsibility and feeling of empowerment.

What do you think?

Matt,

It looks good on paper, but I have some concerns.

1. - is the 800 portable really needed? It will be going off all day for OTHER stuff, and will be a distraction. Also, they are big and heavy, and if some bully gets ahold of it, something could be said on public-safety frequencies that would put EVERYONE in hot water.

Solution - stick with the FRS radios, have a way to set them to "alert" when one radio keys up on that channel and code (CTCSS squelch with alert tone... common function). Have the Main Office or School Nurse have a "base station" portable that they use to summon the team, either before or after 911 is called. Chimp and I both have experience in a similar system - if you need help, you call security, and security sends an onsite EMT / MFR, and if justified, calls 911 for an ambulance AND is prepared to lead the ambulance to the correct destination.

2. - I'm still not comfortable with the idea in general. I don't think most kids are mature enough, and don't think that First aid / CPR is enough training for a first responder. HOWEVER, at work, there is a voluntary program for first responders where we have several volunteers per building who have basic first aid and basic adult CPR who Security calls in the event of a medical emergency, AFTER the EMT is on the way. Usually the EMT arrives first and the first responder does nothing, but they have helped (some more than others) - so in theory, this has worked where I work. We activate the first responders by Phone. They also take care of the Corporate Incident reports when needed... I've got my own, more detailed one to write.

3. - Standbys at sporting events - I've only ever done one EMS standby at a Middle School sporting event, and that was a BIG 2-day wrestling tournament - not much happened. Perhaps they could assist the athletic trainers and learn some sports medicine? They would also have adult supervision in that case.

I still have questions with response in the school:

A - Is there any case where the responders would be activated but 911 wouldn’t be called?

B – What is the “typical” response time for the first and second due ambulance to your school?

C - Would there be adult supervision at all times?

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just trying to give you a reality check....:blush:

 

[hfdff422]

For liability reasons, I would avoid allowing anyone that does not have a certification to do anything without the direction and supervision of someone who is certified. Even at that I would check with a lawyer first.

 

[MMiz]

Lots of ideas here. I really do appreciate all of the feedback.

is the 800 portable really needed? It will be going off all day for OTHER stuff, and will be a distraction.

I figured the 800 would be kept off until needed. In reality, the 800 wouldn't be able to reach our radio tower to actually transmit. It would be so that the person could direct responding EMS units. There would be no way I could have a student keep it on with 20 units on the road and the constant radio traffic. I figured they could turn it on after they've been summoned.

Also, they are big and heavy, and if some bully gets ahold of it, something could be said on public-safety frequencies that would put EVERYONE in hot water.

Good point. Any ideas on how I can get around this? I'm really trying to make this so the students have a sense of responsibility. I would think the radio would give the student a sense of responsibility. I didn't really think about what would happen if someone stole it. I work at a school where I don't think it would be an issue. Maybe it would be.

I understand the FRS solution and agree with it, but the 800 is more for a sense of responsibility and making the student feel important. Okay, now i'm repeating myself here.

I'm still not comfortable with the idea in general. I don't think most kids are mature enough, and don't think that First aid / CPR is enough training for a first responder. HOWEVER, at work, there is a voluntary program for first responders where we have several volunteers per building who have basic first aid and basic adult CPR who Security calls in the event of a medical emergency, AFTER the EMT is on the way. Usually the EMT arrives first and the first responder does nothing, but they have helped (some more than others) - so in theory, this has worked where I work. We activate the first responders by Phone. They also take care of the Corporate Incident reports when needed... I've got my own, more detailed one to write.

Students would respond after EMS was called. Our response time in the area is usually under four minutes. A unit is stationed less than a mile away on a large five-lane road. I think this response to something else I read, but I'll stick it here.

I'm nnly teaching until the end of April. After that I can't really tell you what would happen with the program. While I may be able to continue to do the club after school, there would be little chance I taught at that school again.

Jon, when you see this in your head and don't think it would work, is this a workable idea, or something i need to scrap and re-evaluate?

 

[MMiz]

For liability reasons, I would avoid allowing anyone that does not have a certification to do anything without the direction and supervision of someone who is certified. Even at that I would check with a lawyer first.

So you don't think it would be a good idea to have AHA certified 11-14 year old respond to emergencies? Chances are there would not always be an EMT on scene. There would always be an adult of some time, but most of the time ambulances are not called for minor first aid issues.

 

[MMiz]

Let me also say that my students would responding to minor first aid stuff, they would not be trained as MFRs.

Stubbed toes, cuts, bruises, they'd arrive, open the jump kit and pull out a Band Aid, maybe even a Bacon Band Aid.

Jump kits would have bandaging equipment and a CPR face mask. No BVMs, BP cuffs, O2, or anything else.

Is that still too much Jon?

 

[ffemt8978]

Are you sure you want them responding as MFR's? That entails some liability and other concerns. Training them in first aid or advanced first aid might be a better alternative.

 

[MMiz]

Are you sure you want them responding as MFR's? That entails some liability and other concerns. Training them in first aid or advanced first aid might be a better alternative.

I don't want them as MFRs, my kids could never handle it. I want them doing CPR/First AID/AED. The "Jump kit" would be bandaging with a penlight and face mask. Think it's still a bad idea to have them as "First responders"?

 

[Chimpie]

I know I'm plugging the Red Cross, but see if your local chapter has what's called "First Aid Station Teams". If not, maybe you're just the person to get it started. They usually have FAST Teams at some social events or school activities. Most of the time they are manned by adults, but maybe for middle school activities you can set up a first aid tent with a few kids and an adult or two to supervise.

I wouldn't teach them anything above First Aid - A/C/I CPR - AED.