Legal question, I was dispatched to transport 2 PT's!!!!!

[John E]

Hmmm...

I found it interesting that the OP listed themselves as an EMT-Intermediate working in Los Angeles County, given that L.A. County doesn't recognize the position of EMT-Intermediate.

Unless they've changed something and are keeping it very well hidden on the County EMS website.

 

[CAOX3]

in fact I transported 2 about 2 years ago, when we had 6 other trucks available, but they were both stable knee injuries. it was about 2 hour transport.

like previous posters said: bad Idea to take both drivers from 2 car MVA's; but I have taken up to 6 people from a ECF evacuation; and 4 from a MVA, (3 were backboarded).

Where do you put three backboarded patients in an ambulance, what do you have bunk beds?

We can take multiples they just need to be lawfully secured.

 

[ffemt8978]

Where do you put three backboarded patients in an ambulance, what do you have bunk beds?

We can take multiples they just need to be lawfully secured.

I believe the ceiling hangers above the bench seat would qualify as bunk beds.

Actually, we've got one ambulance that has two bench seats, a cot, and two hangers so theoretically we could transport 5 patients that are backboarded. The most we've ever transported in that rig was 2 adults on back boards, one peds on a back board, one with minor injuries in the captain's chair and an infant in their own car seat. NOTE: we do 911 only, and no IFT.

 

[JPINFV]

I found it interesting that the OP listed themselves as an EMT-Intermediate working in Los Angeles County, given that L.A. County doesn't recognize the position of EMT-Intermediate.

Unless they've changed something and are keeping it very well hidden on the County EMS website.

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he might be an AEMT (formerly EMT-II) or a transplant from somewhere else. It's listed as training, not current level of licensure.

 

[TransportJockey]

I found it interesting that the OP listed themselves as an EMT-Intermediate working in Los Angeles County, given that L.A. County doesn't recognize the position of EMT-Intermediate.

Unless they've changed something and are keeping it very well hidden on the County EMS website.

When I was working as an EMT-B in CO, my level still said NREMT-I/85, is that wrong?... Could be he got training somewhere else and the place where he's working just won't recognize it.

 

[ffemt8978]

Don't place too much faith in what our members claim there certs are in their profile. We have no way of verifying that information.

 

[firecoins]

We are an IFT company, MCI's are the last thing we will ever do. There was at least three other rigs available. I do not see how this doesn't violate HIPPA.

IFTs get brough in to MCIs in NY.

Taking 2 patients at once does not violate HIPPA. They have hospital rooms with multiple patients in them. Does a sheet prevent the spread of medical info? No.

I have put backbparded pts on the cot and bench. I have taken 5 walking wounded from 1 car of an MVA.

 

[looker]

I have read all the post and it sounds like you're lucky you haven't been fired yet for cause. There is no reason why you could not take 2 stable patients. What were you afraid of, that one of them will code? How far away was the hospital?

 

[18G]

To echo what everyone else has said... its an accepted practice to transport two patients especially when they are both stable and related.

As a provider you have to use judgement... I personally would shy away from transporting MVC patients that are unrelated from separate autos unless an MCI situation or some other extenuating circumstance. But occupants from same auto I've done it lots of times. And in your case I definitely would have transported both without reservation.

Use your case for learning. Everyone makes mistakes and has those moments that make us look back and think, "what the heck was I thinking".... you don't deserve to be fired or reprimanded as long as your able to change your perspective and become comfortable transporting multiple patients.

Education should take precedence over discipline for employee improvement.

 

[SerumK]

I was asked to take three non-emergent patients to two destinations IFT.

 

[Veneficus]

I have read all the post and it sounds like you're lucky you haven't been fired yet for cause. There is no reason why you could not take 2 stable patients. What were you afraid of, that one of them will code? How far away was the hospital?

Glad you showed up.

How does transporting 2 IFT patients together work in terms of medicare/medicade billing?

 

[Cohn]

Wah Wah Wah take both pts.

Sounds a bit whiney to me.

 

[medic417]

on IFT?

Never been an IFT'er. But it still would not be illegal to transport two IFT patients. Just document 2 patients transported. Mileage will only be paid on one.

 

[johnrsemt]

Don't remember who asked; but I had a 4 y/o and 6 y/o on same board, legs intertwined on bench: Mom backboarded on cot; dad, signed SOR, and sat in airway chair.

never hung a LBB from ceiling but some of our trucks were capable of it.
Did have a cot hanging from ceiling, but that was a prank

 

[Lone Star]

This would be my major problem with taking 2 patients in a non-emergent setting. There is no possible way for the provider to secure themselves sitting on the freaking floor. :angry: Are we seriously so unconcerned with preserving our lives in an accident that no one bats an eye to a company that is OK with sacrificing safety when there are (apparently) plenty of other ambulances around?

One (the worse off of the two) on the cot, the other sitting either in the 'jump seat' or on the squad bench. You would have the option of either sitting beside the one on the squad bench (where you could easily reach both patients), or sitting in the 'jump seat'.

There's no legal prohibition that I'm aware of that says you cannot transport more than one patient in an ambulance.

Since the patients are related, I'm pretty sure that they know of each other's 'conditions' and medical history long before you ever showed up! That being said, I can't see how treating the both of them is a violation of HIPAA.

As far as billing goes, give all the paperwork to the billling department (just like you do on every other patient) and let THEM worry about it.

Neither patient was 'critical' or even 'unstable', therefore no major concerns about transporting them together.

And yes, I've done IFT's, and would have no concerns even as an EMT-B about taking both patients.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and presume that you're still a 'noob' with less than 6 months in the field. The alternative is to figure that you're in the wrong career...

 

[looker]

Glad you showed up.

How does transporting 2 IFT patients together work in terms of medicare/medicade billing?

As long as point a to b is same for both patient, you end up billing as share of ride. Basically you get paid for both patient but it will be less compare if you transported 1 pt at a time.

 

[HasTy]

One (the worse off of the two) on the cot, the other sitting either in the 'jump seat' or on the squad bench. You would have the option of either sitting beside the one on the squad bench (where you could easily reach both patients), or sitting in the 'jump seat'.

There's no legal prohibition that I'm aware of that says you cannot transport more than one patient in an ambulance.

Since the patients are related, I'm pretty sure that they know of each other's 'conditions' and medical history long before you ever showed up! That being said, I can't see how treating the both of them is a violation of HIPAA.

As far as billing goes, give all the paperwork to the billling department (just like you do on every other patient) and let THEM worry about it.

Neither patient was 'critical' or even 'unstable', therefore no major concerns about transporting them together.

And yes, I've done IFT's, and would have no concerns even as an EMT-B about taking both patients.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and presume that you're still a 'noob' with less than 6 months in the field. The alternative is to figure that you're in the wrong career...

Most of the rigs that I have worked in (even the older ones that I worked in at a IFT company in LACo) had a Squad Bench AND a captains chair at the head of the stretcher, which is where you should be sitting any way if you are transporting stable patients/are not activley performing an intervention that requires access on the side of the patient. If the rig should become involved in a TC, then the place of greatest safety for you in this case would be there; especially if this is a t-bone.

 

[Hockey]

Just trying to get out of another report. Quit being lazy and do it. I've had 4 patients all in the back of my truck, only two were related.

 

[Sam Adams]

Okay, It was near the end of my shift earlier this week.

Typically when most mistakes are made, but I digress ...

Our unit got radioed and asked to call dispatch via cell phone. I call dispatch and was sent to pick up a husband and wife from a boarding care with a chief complaint of "flue like symptoms"

Was anyone else in the facility feeling ill? It's Carbon Monoxide season out this way, and where two or more are having Flu like s/s's it needs to be checked out ...

So, I call my supervisor and let him know that I am not comfortable with attending two patients and will not do it.

He then advices to do a complete assessment of both patients and if they're both stable to take them. If assessment reveals that at least one is not stable take one. So me and my partner find any reason not to take both. We took one(tachycardic, HTN, hot to the touch, and vomited earlier that day) and advised dispatch to send another crew for the wife(we waited till the crew got there).

So you believed this person to NOT be stable, yet you remained on scene delaying care for a critical pt? Did you activate ALS?

You were told not once, but twice, by two different people from your company that it was fine to transport two different pt's who are related, and you still didn't believe them. Sounds weird, but it was the end of your shift, I understand. What concerns me is that you're uncomfortable caring for two pt's with what appears to be the flu. I pray for the day you return home from work and your spouse and two kids are sick. What then?

 

[Shishkabob]

Contact FEMA