Legal question, I was dispatched to transport 2 PT's!!!!!

looker said:
As long as point a to b is same for both patient, you end up billing as share of ride. Basically you get paid for both patient but it will be less compare if you transported 1 pt at a time.
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Thanks,

That would explain why no company that I have been involved with that did IFT ever let that happen.
 
Here is my take: They sent an Intermediate to transport two patients, if they were unstable or sick enough to not take both then they would probably require ALS. There is no rule about transporting two pt's, I understand if one of them voices concern, I mean it is IFT and they are married. If the pt is in need of a Medic then it would be understandable, but realistically we are I's...not that much specialty in our line of work. Go to medic school then talk, cause as long as the company is sending a basic or I the pt is not that bad. If you were that concerned then you should realize it is out of your comfort zone and call for ALS. Otherwise it is you trying to get out of doing your job, you had the pt unstable before you got to the facility. I also remember you saying it was for flu like symptoms, which would prob be an Alpha if it was a 911 call. I would still take them both.
 
b2dragun said:
Here is my take: They sent an Intermediate to transport two patients, if they were unstable or sick enough to not take both then they would probably require ALS. There is no rule about transporting two pt's, I understand if one of them voices concern, I mean it is IFT and they are married. If the pt is in need of a Medic then it would be understandable, but realistically we are I's...not that much specialty in our line of work. Go to medic school then talk, cause as long as the company is sending a basic or I the pt is not that bad. If you were that concerned then you should realize it is out of your comfort zone and call for ALS. Otherwise it is you trying to get out of doing your job, you had the pt unstable before you got to the facility. I also remember you saying it was for flu like symptoms, which would prob be an Alpha if it was a 911 call. I would still take them both.
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They didn't send an EMT-I (AEMT technically). They sent an EMT-B who may be trained at the EMT-I level, but cannot operate at that level since Los Angeles LEMSA doesn't recognize AEMTs.
 
perspective check:

"chief complaint of "flue like symptoms"

What is so special about ALS that they will somehow make any difference with the limited dx aability and treatment they offer?

It sounds like two sick people, who are partners, needed a cab to the doctor.

Somehow that is translated in EMS speak to: An Ambulance ride to the ED.

Am I supposed to believe a EMT-B is incapable to drive 2 people who are presenting with "flu like symptoms" to the ED and fill out the paperwork?

How are Basics supposed to earn any respect under such circumstances?
 
JPINFV said:
They didn't send an EMT-I (AEMT technically). They sent an EMT-B who may be trained at the EMT-I level, but cannot operate at that level since Los Angeles LEMSA doesn't recognize AEMTs.
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My bad, forgot it was Cali...B/P system. That makes it worse, if it is a facility saying a Basic (not that an I has much more in their bag of tricks) can transport then unless you find something really off just do it. If you don't want to be at the mercy of a corporation who is concerned with money look for another job. They will always look for a way to maximize their profit. If you want to go up to medic learn by doing 2 pt IFT's...whats going to happen when you have to do it off of a 911 call? Learn from this opportunity, you need to manage time and you will be fine.
 
Veneficus said:
"chief complaint of "flue like symptoms"

What is so special about ALS that they will somehow make any difference with the limited dx aability and treatment they offer?

It sounds like two sick people, who are partners, needed a cab to the doctor.

Somehow that is translated in EMS speak to: An Ambulance ride to the ED.

Am I supposed to believe a EMT-B is incapable to drive 2 people who are presenting with "flu like symptoms" to the ED and fill out the paperwork?

How are Basics supposed to earn any respect under such circumstances?
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I am a basic, and I couldn't agree more.

Technically, to splice some information from another poster- technically isn't this better for the PT also cost wise? The IFT company might charge for 2 PTs, but likely can only charge once for the milage, so they really aren't milking the PT for extra money either.
 
Amycus said:
I am a basic, and I couldn't agree more.

Technically, to splice some information from another poster- technically isn't this better for the PT also cost wise? The IFT company might charge for 2 PTs, but likely can only charge once for the milage, so they really aren't milking the PT for extra money either.
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It actually goes both way in terms of billing This people likely have medi/medi so it means that it will cost government less when 2 pt are transported in same ambulance. At the same time it will mean that another unit will be available to transport someone else.
 
To be honest in my experience with MOST IFT companies in LACo is that they will bill it however they have to in order to make the bills I have seen patients walk out to the rig climb in and lay down so that the ambulance company could collect the money to for the dialysis run. Back to the OP's problem though...there is nothing wrong with taking two patients other than you might have to write a second PCR God forbid. Now you might run into problems at work seeing as the way I read it you were told by dispatch and M-100 to take both patients...and if they were stable enough for you to wait for a second unit then they were at least IMHO stable enough for you to transport at the same time.
 
HasTy said:
To be honest in my experience with MOST IFT companies in LACo is that they will bill it however they have to in order to make the bills I have seen patients walk out to the rig climb in and lay down so that the ambulance company could collect the money to for the dialysis run.
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If they can walk, they should be using NEMT.
 
looker said:
If they can walk, they should be using NEMT.
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your speaking to the choir hence why I no longer work for the company I was working for in LACo after they asked me to change my PCR so they could get paid but that is a topic that need not be discussed on open forum...



With this post I made 100 posts....Yea for being a forum Lieutenant...
 
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HasTy said:
Lone Star said:
Most of the rigs that I have worked in (even the older ones that I worked in at a IFT company in LACo) had a Squad Bench AND a captains chair at the head of the stretcher, which is where you should be sitting any way if you are transporting stable patients/are not activley performing an intervention that requires access on the side of the patient. If the rig should become involved in a TC, then the place of greatest safety for you in this case would be there; especially if this is a t-bone.
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I think we're talking about the same configuration, just using different terminology.

The seat at the head of the cot has been referred to as 'the airway seat', 'the jump seat' and 'the captains chair'. The bench parallel to the cot is the 'squad bench', 'squad seat', or just 'the bench'....
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not legal

It is NOT legal to transport two IFT patients at the same time. The only time you are allowed to transport two patients at the same time is on a 911 call. A lot of privates do this then bill medicare for two seperate runs which is Medicare fraud or insurance fraud depending on if the patients have medicare or private insurance. This is rampant in L.A. County.
 
ambman1989 said:
It is NOT legal to transport two IFT patients at the same time. The only time you are allowed to transport two patients at the same time is on a 911 call. A lot of privates do this then bill medicare for two seperate runs which is Medicare fraud or insurance fraud depending on if the patients have medicare or private insurance. This is rampant in L.A. County.
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Really? Would you like to post some info that show this is not legal? I will wait :)
Edit:If you transport 2 patient at the same time, you are required to bill as share of ride. Only time that is not the case if they are going to different place but that would be very rare for ambulance to do.
 
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ambman1989 said:
It is NOT legal to transport two IFT patients at the same time. The only time you are allowed to transport two patients at the same time is on a 911 call. A lot of privates do this then bill medicare for two seperate runs which is Medicare fraud or insurance fraud depending on if the patients have medicare or private insurance. This is rampant in L.A. County.
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Have you read any of the first 10 pages?

Yes, yes it is legal.
 
I've been in the middle of an IFT run, come upon an accident, decided that patient needed immediate transport, so we transported. No one has said anything to me yet, so I'm not worried. B)
 
Care to show me where it says it's legal?????????????????no no it's not check out the articles about greybor ambulance and Murfreesboro ambulance and you will see it clearly states they transported multiple patients at once.....Hello!!!!!!MEDICARE FRAUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Not sure how they do things in Texas or Michigan but in California it's illegal unless it's 911!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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